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Creature — Elf Wizard
: This turn, each creature you control enters the battlefield with an additional +1/+1 counter on it. , Remove a +1/+1 counter from a creature you control: Draw a card.
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Zameck Guildmage Discussion
7 hours ago
Ok time for another complete overhaul!!?? Turns out a 5 color deck is a little hard to nail down. And that I was overrating some cards and underrating others.
Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit - too slow, Mana intensive, and isn't a threat on it's own. Got hit by removal way too often.
Dromoka's Command - not a very aggressive card, and its other modes besides the fight and counter were never used. Still could be a good sideboard card vs. burn and blood moon decks
Bloodbraid Elf - Was great some of the time, and other times just hit bloodhall ooze or something. I want something more synergistic.
Plaxcaster Frogling- to be honest I never play tested it. It might be great against certain decks, but it seemed slow and unimpactful.
Simic Initiate - not a standalone threat, and weak to removal.
Skyrider Elf- I passed up this card because it's a little boring. But after playing against humans and really needing a strong flyer, and then play testing it, it exceeds my expectations and is nice and aggressive after a turn 1 hardened scales.
Citadel Siege - this card may be one of the most underrated cards ever. It's simply awesome in this deck. Especially with all the 1/1 flyers we get from abzan ascendancy and Hangarback. It just makes anything and everything a threat. Or you can play it for the other mode and use it as a versatile piece of removal. It hits haste guys, man lands, guys that have death triggers, etc. Its absolutely what you want to top deck when you are facing a big threat. 3 seems excessive, but it's really, really good.
Zameck Guildmage- I was considering Tireless tracker, but then compared it to this card, which arguably does a lot more, but still draws a card for 2 Mana. Combined with Hangarback walker or abzan ascendancy it can make an army of threats after a board wipe. It can make 1 drop top decks actually good. It uses the counters on creatures that don't really need more, like bloodhall ooze or paladin. It's that key piece of the deck that actually gives it some inevitability late game.
Ulvenwald Tracker- This card is also very underrated. It pretty much demands to be killed or it will keep killing everything you play. It takes advantage of the huge creatures you get which would usually just be sitting around getting chump blocked. It gets much better with the citadel seiges being able to pump it so it can fight stuff itself.
Experiment One - A very quick and hard to disrupt start with a constrictor on turn 2. Also a very nice top deck with citadel seiges out, and fuel for zameck Guildmage.
-2x Llanowar Reborn - I really wish I could keep playing this land, but since ziggurat is gone, I needed to cut it for more fixing
+2x Vivid Grove- Almost never runs out of counters. Definitely slower than other lands but it's necessary.
+2x Holdout Settlement - seems odd but it works pretty well. Usually we have creatures out turn 1 that we can use this on and not feel too bad. We can also use creatures that just came out.
- Fast Lands - In order for our manabase to not just kill us, we have a variety of fast lands that give us as much variety of color as possible. Playing 8 of the pain lands was way too much. 6 is still harsh, but manageable.
1 month ago
I really like the idea of this deck and the level of detail you've put in explaining it! I'm glad for your realism in explaining your infinite combo.
The thing that worries me in this kind of deck is getting the +1/+1 counters on my creatures to begin with. Is that something you have a problem with? I know the evolve and graft keywords can be nice for that, and Novijen, Heart of Progress, Zameck Guildmage, and Oran-Rief, the Vastwood are powerful resources for that, so I wonder if maybe some more cards that can tutor any land, like Sylvan Scrying could be handy.
Additionally, how much work do Crocanura, Battering Krasis, and Cloudfin Raptor put in once they're beefed up? I tend to be a little afraid of Evolve creatures that don't do anything special with their counters like Gyre Sage or Fathom Mage, but I love their flavor and I'd be so glad to play them if they can contribute to one's board presence and maybe make a couple of meaningful attacks.
Again, I love this deck's flavor and function. Thanks for sharing and keeping it updated!
3 months ago
Here some cards to pimp your deck.
More ramp = more speed:
Control and removal
- Song of the Dryads
- Arcane Denial
- Cyclonic Rift
- Nature's Claim
- Swan Song
- Plasm Capture
- Simic Charm
- Beast Within
- Reality Shift
- Back to Nature
- Bane of Progress
- Krosan Grip
- Fuel for the Cause
3 months ago
Since Fathom Mage is your only way to draw cards and get gas, have you thought about Sage of Fables? it curves nicely into Fathom Mage and Master Biomancer (whom both are wizards) so you would draw a card instantly off of Fathom Mage. Plus if Fathom Mage gets too strong to continue to evolve/draw cards you can remove counters to draw.. (suggest removing Varolz, the Scar-Striped). Zameck Guildmage could also be considered but would require mana to add counters when you cast and doesn't care about creature type, but the card draw would be the same.
Also with many of your creatures costing 4 of more maybe a mana accelerator like Devoted Druid whom later game can be abused for multiple times in the same turn due to the extra plus counters.
Lastly Undergrowth Champion seems like he would be pretty good in the deck and helps with earlier turns and gets bigger over time. Difficult to combat against favorably. Has usual draw backs to exile and creature destruction, but could at least be a sideboard consideration against red decks..
4 months ago
FlipNissa, Steward of ElementsFate ForetoldHoofprints of the StagIrresistible PreyJushi ApprenticeKarametra
s favorLifespark SpellbombOrigin SpellbombTrackers instinctsProphet of DistortionResourceful ReturnRiver HoopoeScarscale RitualScout
s warningSmugglers copterVerdant RebirthWharf InfiltratorZameck Guildmage
4 months ago
first of all, no need to apologise for critisism, as this is YOUR deck, and i'm trying to both help you, improve my own deckbuilding and have a good conversation about way too expensive cardboard :). you can leave formalities behind and so will i, unless that discomforts you of course.
i like your view on cards, as it differs with mine. this is probably because of the difference in playgroups, e.g. the issue of big things getting countered. (this rarely happens in my group, mainly cause i am the blue player playing very little counterspells. destroying things is the way to go)
i have two different points i want to bring out there, first point is about your reaction on my post, the second one is going to be about your "craving" for piloting a versitile deck rather than winning with a sequenced set number of cards.
so Woodland Bellower seems pretty good in the deck, however it cannot tutor Trinket Mage for it is not a non-legendary green creature. nevertheless it does tutor the Reclamation Sage, Eternal Witness etc.
Clever Impersonator: i get the idea of why this card is in the deck. even though versatility is key, this card is not going to help you close out the game when you are on the winning hand (assuming being on the winning hand is having a far better board state). mirage mirror would be my go-to replacement for this card as it is more versitile. apart from biomancer and fathom mage there's not much to copy in your own deck, but that was never the point of Clever Impersonator.
Oran-Rief Hydra: if this is a spotholder for a huge creature that grows if left unchecked i would still stress that it would be replaced. this time around i found Heroes' Bane to be the better option. although it is not a big change, this would optimize mana-cost and add yet another way to spend mana.
never judge a book by its cover, i completely missed Zameck Guildmage his second ability.
Tuskguard Captain: if flying is what you prefer, what about instead paying 6 mana to give your creatures with counters flying Sapphire Drake, you pay 6 mana to give ALL your creatures flying and have all your opponents' creatures lose that ability: Archetype of Imagination
is it right for me to say that having a lot of counters on one creature is more important than having lots of creatures with counters on them? if it is, then thrumming bird isnt really doing much. the inability of this deck (which isnt a bad thing per se) to easily place counters on creatures that haven't got any is what made me question Master Biomancer in the first place, after reading it today i realised it didnt need any counters to work. nevertheless in these 100 cards there are 5 cards that can give creatures counters: Plaxcaster Frogling, Master Biomancer, Zameck Guildmage, Bow of Nylea and Retreat to Kazandu. all of this gives me the feeling a proliferate trigger wont do much, same goes for hardened scales, as 1 more counter on a 13/13 hydra wouldnt make that much difference anymore. conclusion: consider taking out thrummingbird, hardened scales and retreat to kazandu.
to replace these cards you will need ramp, for your deck uses a lot of mana. i cant stress enough how important land based ramp is for your deck, as it is using a wild variety of hard-to-cast cards like Prime Speaker Zegana, Plasm Capture and Alchemist's Refuge, but i respect the issue at hand. i have come up with a small list of ramp that might counter the issue i know all too well: the pain of drawing cultivate in the most important part of the game.
these cards all replace themselves if you draw them lategame. some draw you even more. an honarable mention could be Abundance
i'm thinking about versitality and i am actually wondering what that means for you as a player. is it adding cards like Orochi Hatchery ?
5 months ago
Alright, lemme hit a few notes here for the sake of discussion; Keep in mind that I'm only sharing my opinions and wholeheartedly appreciate everything you have to offer. Here's some respectful rebuttals for discussion:
Progenitor Mimic is more for copying things like Master Biomancer, Reclamation Sage, and stuff like that. Clever Impersonator is used on stuff typically not mine, mostly a value play to copy enemy fatties, artifacts, or planeswalkers (and actually won me the game i mentioned above by doing the latter).
Trinket Mage is in mostly to get the Ring or the Top, but i see your point. Initially I was thinking of something like Woodland Bellower into Trinket Mage into one of the abovementioned, just a little value play to pump my board, but that all doesn't feel in line with the counters strategy, but rather more of a control'y type maneuver.
Death's Presence is on a very short list of cards i have on hand, itching hard for a spot in the deck - but the reason it didn't make it is because of how situational it is, needing a creature to die, and a creature to absorb the counters, what feels like a flimsy situation in some games. Master Biomancer just felt more useful as a creature on board for less mana and a more consistent effect.
Lorescale Coatl caught my eye as well, and has been removed from the list as it really is just too slow (not that this deck is very fast to begin with).
I had considered Tuskguard Captain, but it's so much more effective to have flyers than tramplers, and having a guy that i need to tap to add counters to itself seems FAR too cumbersome.
With this deck hosting 30'ish creatures, and almost guaranteed a blue player at every table, i feel the need to make my creatures uncounterable, over untargetable. Nothing feels worse than trying to play a big dude just to have it countered and your turn wasted. Archetype of Endurance is in and out of this deck as much as any card, but it was easier for me to justify Asceticism (not that redundancy is a bad thing), it just feels flimsy to drop 8 mana into a creature that will more-than-likely face a Counterspell.
Young Wolf is a turn-1 play to get me on board. i have no intention of placing counters on it before its first undying trigger (think early chump blocker). Zameck Guildmage is little more than a draw engine, I'd rarely ever consider its first ability, I just want to keep cards in my hand.
I recognize the need for ramp, I just hate drawing those cards late game. Likewise, spending too much time ramping early tends to cost valuable early tempo and by half a dozen turns i have mana, but I've fallen well behind on board and am now at the mercy of my draws (or maybe I've just had some very unlucky experiences).
5 months ago
first of all i really like the deck and the monstrosities it produces. i personally play EDH casually with a group of friends and therefore is everything i know based on my experiences there. my very first deck i ever built was Varolz, the Scar-Striped and it did similar things with all sorts of hydra's and counter doublers. this deck never won. the reason was that i needed several turns to get out a big dude, only to have it struck by Anguished Unmaking. for these kinds of decks you need explosive turns where once you're set up, you can keep going each turn untill your opponents are trampled over. the first thing that came to my mind was Everflowing Chalice or Gyre Sage. combined with Sword of the Paruns a gyre sage that taps for 4 green mana becomes an infinite mana source. Mistcutter Hydra could now be a hasty 10000/10000 coming at your unsuspecting opponents. Gemstone Array is really usefull when you are producing immense amounts of mana, for you can use it as a converter to make UG for vorel.
now we are creating big mana (remember, there are so many ways of doing this, i just happen to like these ones) its time to look at the creatures that benefit from this and the creatures that are too slow.
i'm just mentioning things that i think need to be replaced, if a card is not mentioned, it can stay imo.
Master Biomancer: currently you have no effective ways of adding power to your creatures that do not generate +1/+1 counters by themself. therefore you should either remove Master Biomancer or add cards like Death's Presence.
Lorescale Coatl, since your carddraw is limited this card is too slow.
Oran-Rief Hydra i smell something of a mini landfall subtheme in the deck as it is, however this isnt what you currently are trying to do so that makes this card way too slow.
Sphinx of the Final Word: are your instants and sorceries the things you win your games with? i think the answer would be: no, my creatures are going to win the game for me. therefore i would replace this card with Archetype of Endurance if protecting is what you want to do.
Zameck Guildmage: probably too slow.
lastly, 37 lands is fine, but the amount of ramp is not. Nature's Lore and Chromatic Lantern are the only cards that make sure you have your lands. you have green, so add cards like Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Rampant Growth, Explosive Vegetation. also a Simic Signet is nice to have.
this deck can go anywhere and i had lots of fun trying to figure out a path to playing fun games, i realise that i have been rambling on and on so i would really appreciate your opinion on the matter.