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Creature — Sliver
All Slivers have "Tap: Regenerate target Sliver."
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Crypt Sliver Discussion
4 months ago
Still have to test it a couple of time.
9 months ago
Warstorm Surge allows for targeted removal as you play slivers because it is an ETB effect all slivers will enter with all the abilities they would be getting from the rest of your slivers.
Crypt Sliver is a nice way to keep your slivers alive by giving them all regenerate.
Psionic Sliver is one of the slivers I didn't much like when I was building my deck due to the feedback damage from it triggering your own deathtouch on your own creatures. Burning Sands is also a card that you need to be careful of yourself incase you get wiped and lose all of your lands.
As it stands the sliver deck I made had a higher budget and was a different style to yours. The bomb I had was Primal Surge with no other non-permanent cards in the entire deck. My play group also liked to wipe out the board in various different ways on me so cards that could hurt me I had to avoid.
10 months ago
I actually do know how mtg was back then, Tyrant-Thanatos. I played my first games when Revised was the core set, The Dark had sold out from the local store, and Fallen Empires had yet to be released. And played just as casual as everybody else, until Invasion or Odyssey, and then had a long break. No internet for decklists, just The Duelist.
But that doesn't change my opinion, really. I think slivers are vastly overrated, if anyone considers them the most powerful tribe with the most degenerate combo. But at the time where they showed up, they were about the only pure tribal deck that could have such a high degree of synergy, without having to find something outside the tribe. Humans, didn't even exist then. Elves could make mana, but had to find something outside the tribe to use it for (and the mana industry didn't really take off for them until Urzas saga and Priest of Titania, anyway) - the elf combo days were way out in the future. Goblins were a bit more like their current self, or... well... at least they had gotten Goblin Grenade. And then SLIVERS. Even as a casual deck, this tribe had scary levels of synergy, making it hard to tell what was the bomb creatures. And that's without even counting the 5 colored Sliver Queen. To casual-player eyes, it was completely broken, but that would often be accompanied by cries about how counterspells ruins the game, and how Wrath of God, Armageddon, and Winter Orb was broken pieces of cardboard trash, that no decent human being would ever touch except when carrying them to the incinerator (it's a caricature, but early on there seemed to be a lot of players who had all kinds of ideas about "fair" mtg, which had nothing to do with the rules of the game, and everything to do with their own taste).
The support cards that came later falls right into this. In general, you can expect to get to play your cards and have them in play a little longer in casual games than in competitive ones (general guideline - someone probably plays casual stax somewhere). An artifact costing 5 mana, and requiring multiple creatures in play to activate, is not gamewrecking in a bigger format, and only sometimes in standard. And it's not like the tribal support isn't there in modern - Aether Vial is solid for tribal decks, Descendants' Path isn't bad either, and Door of Destinies is a favourite for some. Of course you could also add support cards that are only legal in vintage - Sol Ring, Land Tax, and the like - but with that kind of support, horses, camels, crocodiles and ouphes could be killer-tribes.
In terms of power, killing an opponent on turn 4 with a combo that necessitates 5 different 1/1 creatures being in play, attacking, and not being blocked at the same time, might seem strong in casual-country, but doesn't really fly anywhere else. The other much-feared slivers, 5 colored monstrosities and what-nots, are much slower, and therefore also a lot easier to do something about. But in casual edh, they would under most circumstances get the time needed to set up a combo (I've only played against slivers a few times - always Sliver Overlord as commander, and some variation of combo, that ends in infinitely many, infinitely big slivers) - and it's being treated as a combo deck: slapped hard and mowed down, because it has a very real way to end an edh game out of nowhere.
A comment on the article: As far as I remember, it wasn't slivers that got "fixed" by making them non-symmetric. It was every tribe, simply to reduce complexity. Onslaught elves also count all elves in play, not just your own elves. Lorwyn/shadowmoor elves doesn't.As for a power-fix to slivers... how does it help printing more slivers that do the same, only with a slightly different body and casting cost? It helps in standard, where the old, "over-powered" sliver wouldn't be anyway, but for anyone else, it's a power-up for slivers, giving them more consistency (so now they have 2 different haste slivers, and if you want your slivers to be fast, you can almost rely on it now). So perhaps it was a matter of "slivers are a terribly overpowered tribe, if you want to beat them by playing creatures and attacking".
Actually, I'm not sure how much "fixing" slivers ever needed. I mean - Black Lotus was banned everywhere but in vintage, and Lotus Petal showed up instead. The original 5 moxen - pretty much the same: In Mirage we got the diamond cycle instead, afaik with an explanation that they were supposed to be a fixed version. But Sliver Overlord doesn't look like a fixed Sliver Queen - it's a completely other creature, doing other things, only sharing color and creature type. If slivers weren't designed wrong in the first place, maybe they have "been developed" rather than "being fixed"?
It also doesn't seem like slivers grow exponentially strong with every sliver printed. They might grow stronger... a bit... (and never weaker/more balanced). But when you add a card to your deck, you also remove a card from your deck (or end up with a very big deck). Was there ever anything sliver-related, that had to be banned (asking because I didn't play at all during the Onslaught or Time Spiral days) to stop slivers from overrunning standard?
As for slivers in modern: Crypt Sliver would be good, but not very. It makes regeneration into a tap-ability, and that means attacking, tapping for mana and so on becomes very risky. Modern is not a format for creature heavy decks to just sit there and not attack, so perhaps Crypt Sliver isn't all that strong. I think it's Sedge Sliver that is the best regenerating sliver in modern, and you could add Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to make sure you always have the right color mana and is able to attack without losing regeneration. Also, you can cut back on mana expense by playing Aether Vial, and as long as you have one of the mana slivers in play with Sedge Sliver, the combination is exactly the same as Crypt Sliver (tap sliver for black mana, spend black mana on regeneration). Crystalline Sliver would be a real upgrade though - Diffusion Sliver which seems like it should be the replacement is decent if you don't look too hard at it, but what is paying 2 extra mana for removal, compared to not being able to play removal at all?
10 months ago
"none of the broken barf-your-cards-everywhere that elves can do, for example" On this I actually agree haha.
But to be more specific, both Crypt Sliver and Crystalline Sliver are non-modern, and the Modern Slivers there are to take the place of these are Poultice Sliver and Opaline Sliver, which are pretty straightforwardly worse, and play a huge role in their susceptibility to removal. In fact I dare say that the removal that was around back in those days, Terror, was actually better against them than any of the removal you listed due to the anti-regeneration clause. But that still wasn't enough. Combined with the likes of Magma Sliver, Quick Sliver, Root Sliver, Shifting Sliver, Sliver Overlord, and Sliver Queen and I'd say I have a pretty succinct list of horrors hiding in un-modern-legal slivers, which makes them the object of such fear.
There is a distinct reason that if somebody walks into an EDH game and starts off by revealing a Sliver Queen as their commander, the game starts as Xv1 instead of the usual free-for-all. And that's in a format where they less reliably get the effects they want. Even if she's a "tier 2" commander, and a lot of things in EDH can snowball out of control, it's just what slivers do. They don't need specific combos, it just happens.
There's not much I can say about Inquisition/Thoughtseize effects. I fully acknowledge that the pool of cards has grown stronger, and these are a great example of that. But slivers always were extremely resilient, and I feel as though the lack of some of these key pieces severely hampers their viability in Modern. Moreso than just the strength of the card pool. Honestly just the fact that they're Tier 2 in EDH tells me there has to be more to it than card pool.
11 months ago
I've thought about Crumbling Vestige but I'll reconsider it. Personally, I think the Crypt Sliver and Heart Sliver are well worth the occasional mana trouble. But so far it has been working out quite nicely. The deck mulligans well also.
11 months ago
I have being running the standard gw manabase, but with 2 Survivors' Encampment and 1 Crumbling Vestige and i haven't really had any problem with, although I do only run 2 Crypt Sliver and 1 Hunter Sliver, and I am a fan of splashing extra colours, just not to that extreme.
11 months ago
not trying to be mean, but you simply will not build a competitive modern deck for under $35. and you say "only 1 sliver is not modern legal, not 3" but thats false. its 3. Crypt Sliver, Muscle Sliver, Winged Sliver.
my own sliver deck for modern cost me over $400 at the time i purchased it. heres what it looks like:
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