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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Creature — Beast
Vigilance, reach, trample
Whenever Elder Gargaroth attacks or blocks, choose one —
- Create a 3/3 green Beast creature token.
- You gain 3 life.
- Draw a card.
1 month ago
Are there budget exclusions for this deck? Meta? General weaknesses you want to address? Was gonna recommend survival of the fittest, mana crpyt etc..... but dont wanna get ahead of myself.
Greater Good - The best card you can add to this deck, handsdown. Another user above suggested it but you did not reply to that card, please do not overlook as it allows you to recover from a wipe, prevent exile, prevent theft and is a discard outlet
Song of the Dryads - Not 100% needed, but nice to have. Good to use on mono red/black commanders as they usually lack enchantment removal. If you wanna be spicy, LD effects can be used in response to their enchantment removal (not necessarily yours even but other opponents/politics).
Sylvan Library - Not 100% needed, but helps set up draws, works well with topdeck effects and is draw in a pinch.
Bane of Progress - Given less than 10% of your deck is artifacts and enchantments, it might be worth considering. Meta dependent for sure, but most playgroups utilize a slew of artifacts.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - Not 100% needed, draw and removal. Also acts as a GY Shuffler (for better and worse).
Nissa's Pilgrimage - Albeit off curve, might be worth considering, potentially over cultivate/kodamas.
Life's Legacy - Similar to momentous fall but cheaper to cast but can't be used in response to removal. Also, folds to blue like momentous. Should you feel you need more draw, I would greatly recommend it.
Green Sun's Zenith - Tutor, very useful.
The Great Henge - Ramp, life gain and draw! Seems to synergize pretty well with the deck, don't sleep on it.
Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - Ramp and draw, very powerful.
Sakura-Tribe Elder - Creature form of rampant growth, definitely swap.
Elder Gargaroth - Versatile beater, I use him for draw and tokens mostly.
Nissa's pilgramige > Kodama's
Tooth and Nail > Shared summmons - For 4 more mana, u get a higher ceiling albeit a lower floor. The higher ceiling more than makes up for it
Primal Order - Dealing damage via non-basics is okay, but it costs a lot of mana and doesn't synergize with the rest of your deck. It also doesn't do much against mono colored decks. Lastly, you're limiting your own non-basics because of this card which I view as a mistake. Given you are mono colored, green at that, you have more flexibility than others to include non-basics in your mana base. Something like Yavimaya hollow for protection, ancient tomb for ramp and more...provide far more value than maybe hurting someone through non-basic land hate.
Apex Altisaur - It fights, its expensive removal. Too much IMO
Bellowing Tanglewurm - Not great evasion, given siege behemoth, I dont think you need the redundancy, do you often find yourself with creature stalemates?
Brooding Saurian - Meta inclusion? If you had more non-basics, Nylea's intervention and crop rotation would be MUCH better. Homeward Path could fix this while providing you with an additional card slow
Kozilek > Desolation twin - Same mana value, with removal draw and GY shuffle.
Elemental Bond > Garruk's Packleader - Cheaper to cast, less susceptible to removal. You have a lot of creatures, 1/4th of your deck. Cutting back 5 - 7 creatures would make your deck less likely to overextend into a wipe.
Spring-Leaf Avenger - 4 or 5 mana for a body and return 1 card, or you can get something like Seasons Past to recur several cards for 1-2 more mana and not reliant upon combat damage which is very helpful.
The Tarrasque - I'm on the fence about this card, seems cool but a bit costly. Why not just get another Eldrazi card like Ulamog Cease Hunger/Infinite Gyre. For 1-2 more mana, you get permanent removal and indestructible which is arguably better than ward
Topiary Stomper - Off curve for early game, low ceiling for late game, low floor. I dont see it's purpose here given green has better ramp. By replacing creatures that provide subpar effects for sorcerries/instant versions which provide a greater level of the effect, you can greatly increase the power and resilience of the deck.
Whiptongue Hydra - Is this a meta call?
Ulvenwald Oddity - I noticed you mentioned you use it as a haste outlet primarily. If that's the case, why not consider Concordant Crossroads or Akroma's Memorial? The former is cheap to cast but a double edged sword. The latter is more expensive but provides a myriad of benefits.
Looking forward to your response and thought process :)
1 month ago
Cariddis not sure if you're still playing Kamahl, but I recently added Silverback Elder in place of Elder Gargaroth and it's been pretty good in my last few games. It's more mid-rangey and you've moved to a more aggressive build but I think it's worth looking into. I also tried Defiler of Vigor for a few games with this vision of bouncing free elves in my head but most of my table saw it as an immediate threat each time. Might be worth looking into. Hope you're doing alright!
2 months ago
I once cast an Exponential Growth for X = 62 on my Elder Gargaroth which amounted in enough damage to blow up a planet, I suppose. Or just shy of 28 billion billion damage, in numbers, of which 14 was blocked :D
3 months ago
Heliod, Sun-Crowned, Resplendent Angel, Crested Sunmare, Serra Ascendant, The Book of Exalted Deeds, Gala Greeters, Trelasarra, Moon Dancer, Voice of the Blessed, Well of Lost Dreams, Elder Gargaroth, Aetherflux Reservoir, Angelic Accord, Authority of the Consuls, Blind Obedience, Ezzaroot Channeler, Glorious Sunrise, Ivory Tower, Nykthos Paragon, Primeval Bounty, Solitude, Spike Feeder, Urza's Saga, Heroic Intervention, Deep Gnome Terramancer
One thing I would recommend is not mixing green ramp and white catchup ramp. The white ones just get hosed. You could fix this by running lots of ways to change the amount of lands you control. Strip Mine, Wasteland, Dust Bowl, Selesnya Sanctuary
5 months ago
6 months ago
I don't have a definite answer for how many token producers is the minimum, but right now all of your sorceries, all but one of your enchantments, all but two instants, and a good handful or artifacts and creatures create tokens in one form or another. That's almost half your deck, and the other half is mostly lands, so I think you're okay there.
To address your first question slightly differently, how much does this deck need counterspells and ramp? I tend to go on the side of "no such thing as too much interaction," and this deck does have a potential weakness to board wipes. If this deck is performing at the level you want, then you hit the right level. If it feels slow, or vulnerable, or a certain effect is punishing it too much, I would say it's safe to remove several token producers so you can protect and enhance your investment. On that line, if you do decide you can afford to drop a couple of tokenators, Asceticism and Heroic Intervention would also be worth looking at.
Elder Gargaroth is a big stack o' value, and it can throw out four 3/3 tokens each turn cycle by itself, or eight with A&N. Anything else just makes it better. I say it's worth it.
6 months ago
You're probably right on all of those points. I have a couple more questions I'd like opinions on, while I have your ear.
First, I'm leaning towards making this a Midrange deck, but the biggest problem is making sure to have enough token producers. All the token doublers in the game won't do me any good if I'm not creating tokens regularly. So if, for instance, I add Counterspell, Mana Leak, Arcane Denial, etc., I'm naturally removing token producers to fit them in. Same for removal. That's why the counters on this list are the ones I chose. Same problem for ramp. So the question is, how many token producers is too few? In other words, what's the minimum number of them I should have?
Next, what are your thoughts on Elder Gargaroth? I keep trying to make myself believe it's an awesome card. 5MV for a 6/6 with 3 keywords and a modal attack trigger??! I'm thinking that it would be a great option for Esix and others to copy. Am I wrong? Is it as great for this deck as I want to believe it is?
7 months ago
Hey, thanks for the reply! In the range of 6-7 we want to start doing unfair things; not quite the territory of combo, but you are right, we should be threatening a win by turns 6-8. It seems like you are running an aggressive on-the-board win, which means we need to target your creatures, and see where we can squeeze in more power. As a note, I'd rate your current deck construction at a 4-5 due to the fact that there could be a lot more optimization, and you seem to be missing ways to threaten a win.
Your best win condition seems to be playing Craterhoof Behemoth into a board of other creatures. Something we want to address if you want to improve the power of the deck is how do we get our win condition out of our deck. We can do this by drawing cards, tutoring from the deck, etc. A deck that is a 7 will usually have one or two ways to directly tutor their win condition, as well as powerful card draw engines that let the deck draw 2 to 3 extra cards a turn.
Cards to Add:
- Shigeki, Jukai Visionary
- Courser of Kruphix
- Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
- Tireless Provisioner
- Tireless Tracker
- Oracle of Mul Daya
- Questing Beast
- Scavenging Ooze
- Elder Gargaroth
- Avenger of Zendikar
- Rampaging Ferocidon
- Hazoret the Fervent
- Harsh Mentor
- Eidolon of the Great Revel
- Ash Zealot
- Magus of the Moon
- Magus of the Wheel
- Treasure Nabber
- Generous Patron
- Runic Armasaur
Something to sit on, and maybe test out: are there cards that are worth playing even though they are non-creature spells? My answer is yes! Here are a few I'd say are worth playing in your deck:
- The Great Henge
- Birthing Pod
- Finale of Devastation
- Sylvan Library
- Once Upon a Time
- Greater Good
- Eldritch Evolution
- Summoner's Pact
- Escape to the Wilds
Sorry if that was a lot! I can recommend cards to take out of the deck if you want, but here is a list of my recommendations. Let me know if you want to further the conversation or have any questions