|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Commander 2016 (C16)||Uncommon|
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Chain of Vapor
Return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand. Then that permanent's controller may sacrifice a land. If the player does, he or she may copy this spell and may choose a new target for that copy.
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|Have (9)||dplerner , LTmiller , ZombieFood , Kiortio , xXThormentXx , zn.tportlock , pskinn01 , , rakdos24|
Chain of Vapor Discussion
2 weeks ago
IrvRai - Birchlore Rangers is the easiest way to get infinite blue, but it's not the only way. You can do a loop involving Crop Rotation and Nantuko Tracer, and then any land that produces blue mana. Crop Rotation effectively "untaps" a land by sacrificing a tapped land and replacing it with an untapped land, so you can create infinite blue that way. There are also loops such as Chrome Mox + any blue card + Nature's Claim + Riftsweeper to generate infinite blue, so you should be good to go in effectively every situation.
Drak - I'll go down the list of cards and explain our reasoning for excluding em:
Cloudstone Curio - Now, this is actually a pretty interesting one, but our combo only needs a single green creature in hand to go off once we have Momir on the field.
The basic game plan is "play ramp/counter spells --> cast Momir --> Hack Momir + cast a green creature --> win the game."
Where Cloudstone Curio would come in handy is that last part, after we cast Momir. However, at that point, any green creature would do in order to win, which means that Cloudstone Curio wouldn't really be helping much. If Cloudstone helped ramp more consistently, or bounced another creature without needing you to play another creature, it might be better for the deck.
Aluren - Admittedly, I have a soft spot for Aluren. However, I'm not sure it would be a good for for this deck. While it effectively reduces the mana cost of creatures played after it, Aluren unfortunately costs 4 mana by itself. In addition, if we could go off at instant speed, it's likely that we could also go off at sorcery-speed without passing turn. It's also notable to mention that our Temur Sabertooth wincon, which is our main wincon, doesn't work at instant-speed, since Temur Sabertooth costs 4 mana and isn't Aluren-able. So while Aluren could help, it's only one mana away from Momir, and therefore it's more efficient to just cast Momir instead.
Coiling Oracle - This card actually used to be in the deck, and it's part of one of the optional alternate wincons. Basically, it's swap-able with Elvish Visionary, and for the most part you wouldn't notice a difference in your standard win lines. However, there are a few arguments against Coiling Oracle vs Elvish Visionary. For one, Coiling Oracle costs UG, as opposed to Elvish Visionary's 1G, which makes it more difficult to cast outside of our combo. In addition, while it's true that Coiling Oracle tutors for us, Elvish Visionary also tutors a creature to hand for us, even without a hack. Due to Momir Vig, Simic Visionary's wording, casting Elvish Visionary will tutor a creature to the top of our library, and then when it enters the battlefield, we will draw the creature we tutored. Since we believe that the more difficult mana cost is more relevant than the potential ramp of Coiling Oracle, we run Elvish Visionary instead.
If you were wondering about the alternate win with Coiling Oracle, it involves shuffling Gaea's Cradle into your library by getting it into your grave (either Chain of Vapor or Glamerdye do the trick), then putting it into your library with Nantuko Tracer, then looping Coiling Oracle and Temur Sabertooth to put the land into play untapped. You can use this to generate infinite mana through Glimpse of Nature without decking yourself..
2 weeks ago
Sculpting Steel - If you run copy artifact, why not this too?
Eladamri's Call - Fetch your win con or a dork
Toxic Deluge - You may be running enough counterspells, but I can't seem to find a boardwipe on your list.
Chain of Vapor - Bounce something you own out of harm's way
Path to Exile - Is giving a player a land such a big downside in your meta? If it isn't you should run this (Don't forget if you get desperate, target something you control)
Crop Rotation - Mana fixing for consistency
Memory's Journey - If you're facing issues with recursion
Eldritch Evolution - Backup Birthing Pod, is one use though
Tarnished Citadel - Mana fixing
Phyrexian Tower - Maybe if you find you have creatures to sacrifice
3 weeks ago
Storm in EDH is generally best achieved by casting an early Ad Nauseam drawing many cards ( having a low Cmc) and casting net positive mana rocks like Mana Crypt, Mox Diamond and the like. From there Paradox Engine and wheels can keep it going pretty well. One cool way to increase storm count is to play out your artifacts, cast Chain of Vapor and bounce them all, sacing lands, and then replay them.
1 month ago
freakingShane: Glad you like it! Here's the answers:
Chain of Vapor is unconditional removal: it removes any card that's preventing you from winning (stuff like Torpor Orb, Stony Silence, Null Rod, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Arcane Laboratory, etc., etc. PLUS, it's also a mana trick, if you target your own Mana Crypt or Mana Vault or Mox Opal, or all three, you can really generate a lot of mana to fuel your combo.
Dack Fayden is probably one of the weaker cards in the list, but Tezzeret is a lot worse. Dack's really here for his +1 ability, which is awesome. It dramatically improves your card quality in hand, it helps you find mana when you need, helps you ditch too many lands when you don't need it, and it puts combo pieces in the graveyard, where they're needed. If you can activate Dack's +1 for 2 or three turns, it's really very powerful. The only downside is that it's sometimes hard to get blockers for Dack, but if you can cast Breya that really solves that problem.
Pull from Eternity is great if people are trying to exile your graveyard combo pieces. It's also great with Tainted Pact and sometimes Doomsday, Yawgmoth's Will, or Chrome Mox. Try it. I think you'll like it.
1 month ago
I really like this deck, man. It's super focused and well built, but I do have a three questions.
- What is the main reason for Chain of Vapor/how is it best used?
- Is Dack Fayden the better choice in this deck over Tezzeret the Seeker ? Is it a CMC thing, or overall usability?
- How often is Pull from Eternity really needed/used? I feel like that is meta dependent, of course, but I'm curious about it from your perspective.
Thanks in advance, and again, super nice deck!
1 month ago
Add Kindred Discovery , Chain of Vapor, and Elixir of Immortality. Play kindred draw a card. Then draw your whole deck. When you get to the last card Chain kindred discovery to your hand and play elixir. Discard to hand size and activate elixir to put your deck back. you can also use Parallel Thoughts because when you take the top card of parallel thoughts it isn't a draw so it breaks the chain.
1 month ago
freakingShane: Yeah, Ad Naus is basically good enough that you don't need to do anything special with it, just good deck construction lets you win after you draw 25 cards with it. In this list, you can't really tap out and cast it main phase, it's unlikely to draw into enough moxes and rituals to get a win from there; you need at least 1 mana left over and a land drop. The way to assure a win is to cast it on your opponent's end step before your turn, then you untap with 25 cards and 5 open mana.
When you do have 25 cards, try to set up one of the combos. Probably the easiest thing to set up is tutor -> entomb / faithless looting -> WGD -> animate dead, which is 5 mana. That's like, land drop, mox, ritual/mana vault, + 1 other mana thing. If you hit LED you can do a yawgwill->labman->tainted pact line (eg: land->ritual->tutor, crack LED, tutor for Yawg Will, cast with LED mana, recast ritual, recast LED, crack LED for blue, use rital mana to tutor for Lab Man, use blue from LED to cast Lab Man, use ritual mana for tainted pact, draw with preordain or sensei's top or probe.) Also, Chain of Vapor is a pretty huge component of the post-AdNaus lines, cause you usually use some kind of mana accel to cast the Ad Nauseam. Then you get to bounce your mana-positive rocks and replay them, which is huge.
1 month ago
xKitarux, would love to take a look!
Not sure how much I like Boompile here. You don't mind bouncing creatures since you play so few but blowing up your own equipments could be really bad for you. I would stick to bounce spells like Evacuation, River's Rebuke, AEtherize etc... If you are worried about permanents that blue does not handle well, like enchantments, you could play cards like Chain of Vapor.
Hoversail shouldn't be needed since your commander is basically unblockable
Here are some other equipments/auras you may not have considered yet. Lu Xun loves effects that trigger upon combat damage since he is almost always unblockable-
Loxodon Warhammer>Butcher's Cleaver
Its always good to have "back up" voltron creatures incase Lu Xun dies too many times to be recasted efficiently -
Some other good stuff
If you are looking to trim some fat and reduce the price tag of the deck, I would cut Thran Dynamo, Top, Homeward Path, and Generator. That might free up enough funds to spread some love across some other upgrades.
Hope this helps some!