|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Commander 2016 (C16)||Uncommon|
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Chain of Vapor
Return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand. Then that permanent's controller may sacrifice a land. If the player does, he or she may copy this spell and may choose a new target for that copy.
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|Have (9)||LTmiller , dplerner , ZombieFood , xXThormentXx , zn.tportlock , killstars , Reliva , , rakdos24|
Chain of Vapor Discussion
1 week ago
I was mulling some ideas over in my head and I wanted to ask if you think Abrade is worth a possible slot in Animar's 99, or perhaps even just in the sideboard?
My initial answer would be NO, because a 2 mana reactionary spot-removal spell in the splash color isn't typically the sort of thing that Animar wants to be spending cards slots on. But I began to think about all the potential targets it hits and started to think that it might be worth a second look. The most useful thing about the spell for Animar is that it takes care of both Torpor Orb and Hushwing Gryff. Considering that Animar likes to have Stax decks in the pod but hates seeing those two cards would make Abrade a possible sideboard option for when a BloodPod deck shows up. On top of that, it also hits a few other cards that Animar would like to get rid of if possible; like Hermit Druid and Laboratory Maniac in FlashHulk, Isochron Scepter in control decks, and Aetherflux Reservoir in Storm builds.
There have been times where I have considered running Chain of Vapor in Animar but in the end I always decided that it was never worth using as removal because it gave opponents the option to turn it around and use on Animar. Abrade doesn't have that risk, and provides an answer for a wide enough range of threats for only one card slot that I thought it might be worth bringing up as a consideration.
It's hard to decide what would be worth taking out for Abrade though. In all the testing you have done, do you think you've ever been in match-ups where you would think that it would be worth boarding in (and if so, what would you takeout)?
3 weeks ago
sonnet666 thanks for following up.
You make a valid point about the slots. I came across the Worldslayer combo early on when I first started brewing Godo+Selves+Hammer. The list I found assembled the Kaldra set with Masterwork of Ingenuity. It's 2 extra slots, but Sword of Kaldra gives you trample (to get the initial player damage in) and speeds up your clock significantly. So the question becomes what do you fill with those slots that compensates for the times you fold to Chain of Vapor, Swords to Plowshares, and the like?
The first iteration of this deck ran Mask of Memory and Fireshrieker and dug through the deck for extra combat phases or extra turns. I would be happy to switch away from Kiki-Crafters once better equipment is printed.
1 month ago
Null rod is always problematic in artifact heavy decks in colours that don't have solid artifact removal. I might exchange damnation for Chain of Vapor to have another noncreature removal...at first I thought that I'm very open to aggro but it's only a problem when playing online with random people who play a low power deck that can't win but also evades my disruption (no tutors, no top sorting, no important key cards...). If it needs to be I could slip in an Ensnaring bridge but the BB in damnation is probably too unreliable and expensive.
1 month ago
and Mirari are also all good cards to include in a control/turn taking deck
1 month ago
Thanks for the comment elfric!
Scrap Trawler and Myr Retriever were better when I had the artifact lands in the list. I think they could possibly become Serra Ascendant, Shimmer Myr and/Or Sun Titan. They are still great value though so I'm going to test my options before choosing. Trading Post is a great card for once you establish board control, I think it is worth the slot as every ability is relevant. Killing myself with Mana Crypt has happened and the life gain can be crucial late game.
Entomb is fantastic here, it finds combo or stax pieces and can be cast in response to Silas's trigger or at the end of my opponent's turn. Imperial Seal I considered, but at sorcery speed I had 5+ better options in esper and I went with those.
The deck has 2 tutor lands, 7 tutors, 3 fetches and Artificer's Intuition. I don't think that would be considered light on shuffle effects? Tolaria West might be better as a basic but tutoring for ramp/shuffle or more importantly Pact of Negation is worth the slot if it stops an opponent from winning next turn imo. Artificer's Intuition is one of the best cards in the deck, discarding stax pieces into ramp or finding Aether Spellbomb/Nihil Spellbomb/Pithing Needle wins games. I have beat some fairly tuned decks to death with aether spellbomb especially.
Chain of Vapor is great imo. cEDH deck at trying to go off T2-T4, one CC disruption is necessary . Generally I don't see people sac a land but if they did and returned a stax piece to my hand unless they are still winning that turn they are either helping the other two players on their turns or passing to me and I will replay the card and they will still be one more land behind if I put out a tax card.
Hope of Ghirapur seems really slow/bad to me. I mean T2 it might stop on player from casting spells but there are better cards imo. I'd rather run something like Orim's Chant personally which can stop a multitude of decks from going off.
Mishra's Workshop would be great here if we had the 2cc ramp package of signets/talismans. Colorless mana is a non issue from my experience with the deck as it is and it's extremely important to fix colors by T2. Inventors' Fair will probably come out for the same reason.
Board wipes seem useless against most of the cEDH decks I'm seeing, I'd rather run more single target removal that will take out a combo piece without destroying my board. Cataclysm is the closest thing to a board wipe in the deck, but it allows me to save Silas and Tymna which creates a good spot to win from.
Dunno about ravager yet, it's a test more than anything but it does get turned off by Cursed Totem which is one of the strongest cards in the deck. So we will see.
1 month ago
Recommendations for cards-
Cut down your land base to at most 32 lands (you really won't want more than that)
Cut out your extra turn spells unless you plan on dedicating the deck to taking extra turns. If you plan on being competitive however, I do advise against extra turn spells.
1 month ago
An interesting list but I am confused by some of the inclusions and more confused by the lack of some others. Hopefully some of the following advice will be useful to you.
Is there a purpose for the extra turn spells? Unless you have a way to loop them infinitely or do shenanigans with them the way Edric, Spymaster of Trest does, I don't see the purpose.
I am also not a fan of Grapeshot in EDH. Tendrils of Agony is fine but Aetherflux Reservoir is by far the best storm win con available currently because it gains you life if you aren't winning with it and requires the fewest spells cast to have a lethal storm count to kill the whole table in a 4 player EDH game.
I would also find room for Paradox Engine and the Isochron Scepter/Dramatic Reversal combo. Both are absurdly powerful and aren't useless on their own. Alternatively, as you are already running cost discounters and Sensei's Divining Top, you could add it Future Sight for another win condition. And if you intend to keep the Basalt Monolith/Power Artifact combo, you might as well add it Grim Monolith for a second target for the Power Artifact and because the card is incredibly powerful on it's own. yet another option for a win condition would be Metalworker (which is absurd acceleration with how many artifacts you run) + Staff of Domination.
I would also swap Day's Undoing for Windfall. Windfall may not always draw you as many cards but it doesn't end your turn or exile itself which makes it infinitely better most of the time And considering you are running 3 Wheel effects already, I would consider Notion Thief as another win condition.
Another note is that your mana base is weak to nonbasic hate such as Blood Moon/Back to Basics/etc. I would add in more fetch lands (you can run any of them because they don't have color identity) for consistency and swap out any of the lands that could potentially enter tapped. Tap lands in cEDH can mean the difference between a win or a loss so unless it does something incredibly powerful or functions as a combo piece like Dakmor Salvage does in The Gitrog Monster, I always advise not to play them. Adding a few basics shouldn't hurt as you are only in 3 colors.
Interaction is also incredibly important in cEDH. especially with how heavily this deck relies on artifacts, if your opponent plays a Null Rod or Trinisphere on turn 1, you need to have answers to it. Vandalblast is my personal favorite in red for artifact hate but there are plenty to choose from. Cyclonic Rift and Chain of Vapor are great options to keep you alive against hate cards and the latter can also work as an absurd ritual for you if you are storming off by allowing you to bounce a bunch of your net positive mana rocks and replay them. Counterspells are also great utility for these things. Mana Drain, Force of Will, and Pact of Negation are three of the most powerful but I am also a huge fan of Spell Pierce and Mental Misstep.
And if you truly are going for competitive EDH, Ad Nauseam is one of the most broken cards ever printed. You will need to lower your CMC so that it doesn't kill you but drawing 30+ cards at instant speed is absolutely insane for a Storm deck. Necropotence also functions as another option to dig for combo pieces, albeit much slower and at a far higher risk than Ad Nauseam.
And if you want more information or just to learn more about cEDH, [List - Multiplayer] EDH Generals by Tier is a great resource to find the most powerful versions of certain strategies or just for random ideas. I personally run a modified version of Paradox Scepter Storm: cEDH Primer as my primary competitive deck (which funtions similarly to how your deck does so it may be a decent source for inspiration).
2 months ago
Then add them.
The bounce lands are just bad in almost all cases, because you get set a turn behind. They're like guild gates that you can't play turn one.
For additions, Dismember is a nice card. Chain of Vapor is likewise awesome. Dispel helps protect you when comboing off. Shred Memory is an ok tutor, with fringe benefits if needed. Languish is a nice wipe, as Tasigur doesn't die to it.