|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Commander 2016 (C16)||Uncommon|
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Chain of Vapor
Return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand. Then that permanent's controller may sacrifice a land. If the player does, he or she may copy this spell and may choose a new target for that copy.
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Chain of Vapor Discussion
1 day ago
Mmm okay DrkNinja, I'll explain it to the best of my ability.
This whole brew is based upon the card Shimmer Myr , the way we storm off is flashing in artifacts for our storm count. The reason why Zur is used at the helm of our deck is because he is a guaranteed tutor for Necropotence . This is a high risk/high reward type of deck that you will pay pretty much all your life to grab what you need. Same with Ad Nauseam , we utilize that card as well as Angel's Grace to draw our whole library.
From here after we do one of the two ways I mentioned above, we have an arbitrary large amount of cards in our hand there are two main lines. Typically we go for the storm way to win, by using Aetherflux Reservoir and casting all our mana rocks, Helm of Awakening makes all our spells cost one less, so it makes us net positive or even when we play them. We can further up the storm count by using Hurkyl's Recall or Chain of Vapor to bounce our own rocks to recast them again. Finally there is another way and that is Yawgmoth's Will (It's not in the deck yet as my friend is picking one up for me in Japan), but it lets me reuse cards all in my yard all over again. By then we should already have enough life to laser beam everyone to death.
Shimmer Myr is essential in this build as we can do this all at instant speed. We can do this in a end step Necropotence before we have to discard all our cards as well as doing it after an Ad Nauseam . Cards like Quicken , allows us to use sorcery speed cards like Yawgmoth's Will at instant speed.
The other way to win is as you mentioned, Laboratory Maniac . Doomsday (DD) is the enabler for these piles, but there are certain requirements for it before you cast DD. First you always need an pile opener, whether it be Opt , Brainstorm , Ponder , Preordain , etc. as long it draws you one card. From there you have to know how much mana you have available and how much cards you need to draw to design your pile. Here is an example of a classic pile without Lion's Eye Diamond and Yawgmoth's Will using Ponder as an opener.
That is also the order you will put your library in. The requirements for this pile is + as well as two Islands available. Cast Ponder to draw into Gush , bounce two Islands into your hand to free cast Gush . Draw Labman and Brainstorm . Cast Labman, than cast Brainstorm to draw out your library and win the game.
There are a lot of variations you can do with the piles, as a more protected one as well as faster ones to net you mana. It's a very hard deck to play but also one that is super satisfying to play once you learn how to. There is so much synergy between the cards, but you have to know your deck inside out.
I hope I did a good job explaining how it works to you, if not lemme know what you are still confused about!
1 week ago
1 week ago
MightyDarknut I know what scepter does and that it's infinite with paradox engine, but that wasn't the point really. What I meant is that with GAAIV you have a commander that is neither a combo piece nor a source of card advantage, so combos have to be found within the 99. If you compare for example Circu, Dimir Lobotomist, dramatic scepter is a 2 card combo and a very cheap one as well - because you can cast the commander when you are mana positive and have the 3rd piece to win (or have the commander out before and then no need to go mana positive with scepter). Paradox engine fits well when you have scepter, no debate on that.
But when you have to find scepter, reversal, outlet or scepter, instant, engine and outlet within the 99 it becomes really clunky. Scepter itself is also a sort of trap imo. You might hesitate to use certain instants because you want to put them under a scepter and when you have scepter and a good instant for it you might put it into play and use too much energy on protecting the scepter because you know that it's a combo or a nice synergy. I would even go as far and say it has a high potential for making you play worse than you should and could if it's in a deck that hasn't a very efficient scepter win con (=a deck without an outlet in the command zone). I do understand that you feel like you can get away with that in your meta because it's not fully competitive. However, you already tuned to your meta by having more stuff against attacking creatures in general, which means you spent slots on effects that you wouldn't need as much (or at all) if the meta was more competitive.
Your fear of losing cards from RIP is a bit exagerated imo. If you mean combo pieces - with the Helm/RIP combo there's not much important to lose. If you lose helm into exile, RIP is still a strong stax effect and if you lose RIP into exile, you won't care about helm either. helm itself is not really useful (except for niche cases of casting it just so and using it to kill topdeck tutors or just randomly mill and maybe hit a creature (you might do that if you lose RIP into exile for example) but so is scepter on its own. What other cards do you fear losing into exile? There's nothing that important that you absolutely need one particular card imo. you play a stax deck, so it's usually the sum of the hate, not one particular piece that matters. As for wanting to have combos be all artifacts, that is understandable because of the higher amount of artifact tutors, but you also have to consider, that having a full artifact board makes you vulnerable to Hurkyl's Recall for example. If your stax and combo is spread among different card types, you have a better standing against cheap boardwipes that hit a certain type. I've found that enchantments stick quite well and are harder to remove in numbers than artifacts, but that might be because my local meta is very blue heavy and no one really expects a high enchantment density and therefore packs more removal for artifacts or the removal are just bounces like Rebuild or recall or Chain of Vapor.
Big draw is important imo, so Consecrated Sphinx is really fine in any meta. Narset has enough loyalty to survive even a few smaller unblocked attackers and on an empty board it's even realistic that you get her to 9. Rebound is ocassionally awesome, if you have some useful cards to go along with that. I just recently have been able to rebound a Timetwister for example (unfortunately this isn't possible with wheels that exile themselves) and that's basically a game winning move. Windfall also works with rebound, so Narset is definitely something you can use well. I had her out of the deck for a while but she's actually really good, especially with a possible cost of just UW. if anything, I think that planeswalkers are even better when the opponents become more competitive because you will see less stupid value beatsticks and creatures will be played for their abilities rather than p/t.
1 week ago
I usually end up with a Mountain at some point in the game and often it is Turn 1 but, there have been MANY games were I don't have a Mountain and still need to destroy an Artifact. That can happen for a few reasons:
- My Mountain gets Strip Mined
- I sac all my lands for bounce triggers with Chain of Vapor
- I don't draw a dual land or a fetch land
There are times when I play a pod without opponents in Blue (no Islands). My Local Meta has a lot of Blue but, there have been times when the pod has ZERO Blue (other than me). Also, many of the Blue players run 4c/5c decks and they don't always drop an Island. I'd rather have a guaranteed R to destroy an Artifact than a card with a situational free-alternative-cost.
2 weeks ago
Hmm, the issue I have with Hydroid Krasis is that, in most of the cases that I've experienced, Animar most often stalls out due to Animar itself not being on the board. So, something like having its board cleared by Toxic Deluge or having Animar bounced with Chain of Vapor. I think that the circumstances where the Krasis lets you restock your hand after stalling out will wind up being few and far between.
2 weeks ago
Decent deck but you seem to have an incorrect deck building mentality...the graveyard is a beautiful place that also exists as your hand away from your hand. cards like Memory's Journey or Noxious Revival have the potential for graveyard interaction with your opponent but Reclaim doesn't which make me think that you are using these cards to pull things out of your graveyard. In fact you would rather be dumping cards into your graveyard instead which is why Hermit Druid is ridiculous; cards like Reanimate Dead are very simple and easy to use cards that work well with it. you should consider putting in cards like Protean Hulk. It is regarded as one of the most broken cards in the game as it is a unpunishable wincon unlike cards like Doomsday. Sultai is the color where you mess around with your graveyard you have little to no ability to pull things straight out of it (cheat out) onto the battlefield, but you have a lot of cards that are anti synergistic with the colors you are playing with.
a couple of cards are going to be too mana intensive to use Grave Betrayal Future Sight Mikaeus, the Unhallowed Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Duskmantle Guildmage. some of these have obvious combo potential but the thing is that they are way to expensive to ever play normally. you have to cheat it out with some graveyard shenanigans. it also makes your deck overall more resilient towards interaction because you can always bring the cards back.
you need to be running every single green mana dork that you can. They are basically the best source of mana acceleration there is. Mystic Remora Chain of Vapor Dark Ritual upgrade your 3cmc kill spells there are better 2 cmc versions. and run some more removal that stops your meta
and to be honest why the hell are you even trying to play control. You already have the most expensive cards that you need to start consistently comboing off at turns 4,5,6. You really don't need to bother because you can out race most decks given that you add in all of the 1 cmc mana dorks
why are you running:
Helm of Awakening : you aren't running storm and this deck doesn't seem to cast more than a couple of cards a turn. this is specifically a card that you need to win with the turn you play it.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir: why? its just expensive and annoying just run a counterspell or something
Villainous Wealth: is this just for memes? the likelihood that you hit an infinite combo piece is pretty small and you don't have a way to make infinite mana.
Seedborn Muse: is this just for value? mana so that you can interact? if so then just add interaction like a counterspell or something
Dig Through Time: how are you getting cards into your graveyard? this card needs self mill to be effective. you are better off running like ramp to just play your commander
3 weeks ago
The List looks nice.
Isn't Sphere of Resistance and Trinisphere working against the second ability of Lavinia? They pay one(or 3), so their force and dread return or whatever doesn't get countered? Trinisphere might be worth including anyway, but I would suggest swapping Sphere of Resistance against something else, maybe Chain of Vapor, Kismet or Grafdigger's Cage
3 weeks ago
Other than that i like the deck.