|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Classic Sixth Edition||Uncommon|
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Each player draws X cards.
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
1 week ago
2 weeks ago
Oh hey! It's always great to see somebody getting into group hug, I feel like I've had a fair amount of experience playing group hug and politics in general (My first deck was How to Have Fun in EDH - Phelddagrif Surprise) and from my experience I've noticed that people tend to love group hug in the first game that you play, and slowly gravitate towards disliking it. I'm here to help you with preventing that slow decline, because after playing a lot of other decks I've realized that it is preventable if you play the game with enough tact.
The decline in "fun" was partially due to the way I was playing, but also due to the fact that with group hug a) it can make the games last a lot longer, b) people start to become wise to your tricks and the fact that you have win cons in mind and c) group hug can cause the game to change significantly, which means that people sometimes don't get to play their deck the way they wanted to play it. Here is my explanation for each:
a) While it might seem nice and innocent to prevent damage dealt to people and/or give them life (using Avacyn, Guardian Angel for example), all it is really doing sometimes is prolonging the inevitable, and taking away the impact of attacking (see part c). Drawing a lot of cards is fun, but then the control player might end up with an answer for everything. Getting lands/creatures is fun, but it can cause a full-board stalemate. In addition, generally when people have more options/resources, they end up taking a lot longer to play through their turn.
b) Cards like Felidar Sovereign can really turn off players to the idea of group hug, since it sort of removes the veil of friendliness from the deck. The problem is that if you put obvious win cons in the deck, players will start to get suspicious of your every move. For example: If you start giving a player life/hippos, instead of thinking "wow what a nice guy" they might start thinking "hmm, they are probably trying to buy some time since I bet they have a win con soon"
c) I think your deck is a lot better for this than mine (since mine was just all-out group hug with no remorse or concern for limits), but generally I've noticed that when you give players a lot of resources, their initial plans go down the drain; the control player now could have a lot more ways to prevent things from happening, the Johnny now has an army of hippos to block while he searches for his janky combo, the Timmy is complaining because he keeps slamming down awesome creatures, only to have them countered, and that one guy with the really bad deck is still struggling because no matter what resources you give him, everyone else is still benefitting a lot more.
Now there is a very clear rebuttal to all of these: "Well I don't necessarily have to give EVERYONE resources, just the people that need help/are being nice". This is a fairly sound argument for a few games, but then people will get tired of playing "Be the group hug player's friend or lose the game". This is why tact is extremely important.
My advice: Go ahead and have fun: the deck looks fun, the archetype plays fun, but don't go all out every game. Give yourself one game to get to that sweet sweet group hug singularity, but after that practice a bit of self-control. It will help you a ton in the long run.
For example, try limiting yourself to only activating each of Phelddagrif's abilities once per round (or once per player per round) or reconsider using Avacyn, Guardian Angel because it might come back to bite you when people want the game to end, or at least try to leave yourself tapped out sometimes.
Another piece of advice from me is to try to make your win cons more well-hidden. For example, try putting in a Prosperity and a Elixir of Immortality instead of a Felidar Sovereign, then use some group ramp spells like New Frontiers to give yourself enough mana to use it for lethal in an emergency (but of course that was't the intent of putting it in, just something you realized later, right?). I'd suggest removing some of your pillow fort cards like Collective Restraint and Ghostly Prison so that people aren't avoiding attacking you because they can't, but because they don't want to. Giving people choice is the best thing to do
And that segways into the most important thing about politics in EDH: People want control. The reason why so many combo decks aren't fun, the reason why control/stax decks are just so annoying, the reason why people can get so upset at having their creatures killed are all because it took control away from that player. This is why cards like Swans of Bryn Argoll are so freakin effective, because the resources aren't just there - you have to work for them, and it pays off when you get them. Unfortunately, most group hug decks don't realize this, which is why there is such a huge gap between group hug and politics sometimes. Take my grixis control/group slug deck as an example: (source: Your Best Evil Friend - EDH Tempting Deals) Grixis, Control, Group Slug, but somehow heavily political; It's because so many cards that I use give the opponent options, and in the end THEY are the ones making the decision to (with Ludevic's ability), attack somebody other than me or even hurt themselves to draw cards. Mages' Contest is an objectively BAD counterspell in a blue deck (aside from the ability to use red mana), but it puts the burden of having one's spell countered on my opponent's shoulders, making it a surprisingly GOOD card for politics. Other counterspells are still used, but only when the control player already tried to interfere or somebody is getting obviously oppressive/out of hand. This is why vows (ie Vow of Flight, Vow of Wildness and Vow of Duty) are so effective: people can't attack me, but they still gained something, and they still have the same (or even more) control over the outcome of the game. Other players don't like it? Well hey, I'm just trying to keep myself from dying. Have some cards as compensation. Fecundity is also great for this, depending on what kind of decks you are playing against. You don't have control over who gets to draw cards, but it is a nice little present to the guy who just had his stuff killed, and it makes for a funny reaction when a boardwipe comes down.
Anyways, I hope through this random amalgamation of thoughts I was able to help in any way, I usually don't write this much but I have so much to say about politics in commander. It requires a lot of finesse but it pays off to see your friends having fun while you still have a big impact on the game. I hope you have fun, and let me know if you want any card suggestions! I didn't want to make this too much bigger which is why I left a lot out. poorpinkus out
2 weeks ago
Well, only three of your artifacts will benefit from the effects of Unwinding Clock, so that can be cut to drop the price. You can replace it with Jace's Erasure or Sphinx's Tutelage to mill your opponent's, or even yourself to pull of Laboratory Maniac. You can replace Collective Restraint with Silent Arbiter as it will be a tad bit more effective. You can drop your price tag even more by replacing Thought Vessel with Graceful Adept. Prosperity is a cheaper option to Windfall.
1 month ago
I have a Kami deck myself that punishes people for having cards in hand, if you want, feel free to look for ideas.
1 month ago
I used to have a deck like this. It was very hard not to get hated out of the group. The idea you might want to think about is going for those large chunks to people. IF you fill out the rest of the slots that draw multiple cards you will be in better shape. I do not agree with the idea that you need to have tutors in this deck, there is so much draw you should almost always have what you want.
Teferi's Puzzle Box is a great idea. It keeps people off balance and hits for big numbers fast. It also pairs with cards like Fascination and Prosperity for multiples or Stroke of Genius and Blue Sun's Zenith for a solo target.
My suggestion would be to drop the Discard portion of the deck and also the counters. They would not be needed with the hands changing so much. Fill the deck with bounce and stuff every single draw effect you can. When the wheels burn they do not take long. If you use a wheel and get more you end up getting some major damage in single turns.
2 months ago
KvotheKingkiller man, I really need to fix that description lol
What I really meant to say is that context matters when you decide when to pull the trigger; you can't just let everyone give you lands and kill them the next turn, you have to use a bit of tact. Prosperity as a win con to kill everyone at the table is still an option, but it should be considered a last resort. If you do it consistently people will start focusing you. If however, say, the control player is making the game grind to a halt and people are just wishing for the game to end, you can use prosperity as a mercy game-reset. You'll still win, but people will be glad that you won that way. Another thing to remember is that everything for the most part is fair game in a 1v1 as long as you don't act like it is planned. Let's say you, for example, buffed the hippo to a 21/21 and killed the last player in a 1v1. Usually that would be considered an awesome comeback rather than you planning behind everyone's back. To win with Prosperity you have to be surprised when it happens (and usually you will be), otherwise you are just planning behind everyone's back.
My whole philosophy with this deck is that from the start of the game I am legitimately just trying to make everyone have a good time, but if later on when the fun starts to die down I find a way to end the game I will, however most of the time people will end up decking themselves by choosing to draw cards when offered. The reason why I like this deck is because you are legitimately killing the players with kindness, not plotting behind their backs
2 months ago
Yeah EpicFreddi, I see what you're saying, but I've never had an issue with a stalled game. Usually what happens is, whichever player is knocking out the other players, that player will have a strong enough board state to finish me off too.
I do have to be careful about milling people out with Prosperity or Skyscribing if the game goes on for very long though, because I'm giving everyone so much card draw. The first time I ever played this deck, I had Noble Benefactor in the deck, got massively attacked and had to block with everything I had to stay alive including Noble Benefactor. I tutored up Prosperity with it and used it my nest turn to mill everyone out. I almost didn't do it, but I let everyone know that I could, and to a man they egged me on to make the play, even though I really didn't want to.
2 months ago
I really like this deck. It definitely puts a target on your back since people like drawing cards, but not losing life for doing so. You may consider adding Propaganda just to keep people from attacking you. I was confused at the addition of Glistening Oil at first, but then I realized you can put it on your commander and kill VERY quickly, great interaction. The deck looks pretty tuned, but if you were looking for different options, you might consider Iron Maiden or Viseling so they get damaged based on the number of cards in hand or extra forced card draw like Fascination, Prosperity, Minds Aglow, Kami of the Crescent Moon, or Dictate of Kruphix. May even consider Past in Flames to get back those instants and sorceries in the late game. Just suggestions, but again, it looks pretty good as is so I'm not even sure what you would take out.