What Happened to Tiny Leaders?
Opinion
zandl
8 July 2016
7851 views
8 July 2016
7851 views
What Happened to Tiny Leaders?
Is there still hope for the Little Format That Could?
A Brief History and Meteoric Rise
In late 2014, Wizards of the Coast announced their plan to broaden the format choices for sanctioned Friday Night Magic tournaments at local shops. Transitioning from just a couple formats to an essentially limitless list of options was certainly an interesting prospect for many players and stores. From among those on the list, there was a format called "Tiny Leaders" which most, including myself, had never heard of. Magic players had always been inherently drawn to new ways to play (see: Archenemy, Planechase, Conspiracy, etc.) and interest thusly ran high in the few months prior to the implementation of the changes.
As most do when confronted with an unknown, we took to the Interwebs to learn more about the mysterious format. We discovered that it was a community-created format based largely on Commander with a few "small" alterations:
- Decks are constructed of 50 cards in lieu of 100, with sideboards consisting of 10 cards.
- Commanders and the rest of your spells may not have a converted mana cost of 4 or greater, meaning it’s a 3-and-under format. There is also a ban-list that is roughly a mix of Legacy’s and Commander’s own, consisting mostly of old, broken spells (i.e. Sol Ring).
- There is no "Commander Damage" rule, and the starting life total is 25.
- Matches are intended to be best-2-out-of-3 since games are considerably faster than your average Commander bout.
Beyond these specific rules, the format follows all other rules for normal Commander.
So a-brewing we went. Some of the more popular Commanders, like Geist of Saint Traft and Anafenza, the Foremost, drew in a number of players for their obvious power while others, like Zo-Zu the Punisher, were a little more subtle. When the time finally came for the first FNM for Tiny Leaders, attendance was high and good times were shared all around. Several weeks of this trip to the Land of Milk and Honey were a joyous reprieve from the then-stale Standard environment and just what the card-shops needed: the sale of a ton of previously undesirable singles. Then ...
The Dark Ages
It stopped. Almost all at once, it ended. In a matter of a couple months, player support dropped off dramatically and internet forums dried up. It was as though someone had stopped the timer in Duels at the last fraction of a second to cast Cancel just as you were fantasizing about that Arlinn Kord
Flip resolving. But what exactly happened?
As it turned out, Tiny Leaders quickly earned the nickname "Legacy Lite" due mostly to its aggressive nature and incredibly powerful card pool. Evidently, when you strip an EDH deck of its huge, over-the-top spells (i.e. Time Stretch, Boundless Realms, etc.), you’re just left with a halfway-decent Legacy deck that has a Commander to cast on turn-3. Many players of Tiny Leaders were initially building decks with the idea of shrinking down an EDH deck in tone and power, but the smaller curves forced the format to become rather aggressive. In this spot, the spells that were strongest, lowest on the curve, and most efficient were those popular in Legacy decks. It’s safe to say now that the majority of new Tiny Leaders players had never owned too many of these types of cards, let alone played Legacy.
On top of this, the format was quickly "solved" due to the overwhelming amount of interest and participation in such a short time and the fact that the format was sanctioned. The "best" decks were built and there was an established meta in the format after just a few weeks. Among the most popular Commanders were Geist of Saint Traft and Ezuri, Renegade Leader. There wasn’t a lot of breathing room against backbreaking tempo or Elfball for less streamlined decks, so the format’s more casual players swiftly abandoned the sanctioned scene. Those that remained largely felt compelled to simply play Modern or Legacy due to the sudden drop in tournament attendance and the fact that you get to play the same spells but more consistently in those other formats..
Finally, Tiny Leaders, being a singleton format with a massive card pool to choose from, quickly found itself in the same position competitive Commander lands in: it never goes well. Commander and, to an extent, Tiny Leaders were both predominantly designed by the community and are therefore most tailored for casual play. When people play Commander, they want to use their leader to execute a specific strategy and win in a certain way that appeals to each player. As soon as people are forced to remove some of those key strategies and/or spells in order to make the deck stronger, you’re removing the fun from the deck at the same time. French Commander exists as a 1-on-1 Commander variant, but it’s similarly popular to Tiny Leaders for many of the same reasons.
So Now What?
Do we let the format fade into obscurity and forget we ever heard of it? Do we get more serious about it and take it back to the sanctioned level? What about Secret Option C: Treat it like Commander? I believe there are still fantastic reasons to keep your Tiny Leaders deck of yesteryear dusted off and ready to go. For starters, games of Tiny Leaders are far faster than those of normal Commander and would be more interesting if you only have one person to play with (assuming you’re using cards that are more effective against big tables of players). Also, any typical Tiny Leaders deck is going to cost about 50% as much as a full Commander deck. This incentive alone speaks loudly to the casual crowd who don’t necessarily have the money (or willingness to spend it) for a new Commander deck.
By taking it back to your casual playgroups, you also gain the ability to alter the format in any way you see fit. Many playgroups for Commander have house rules (i.e. "no infinite combos" or "no Commander damage rule"), so why not adjust the rules of Tiny Leaders if you have your own ideas? Perhaps you’d enjoy the format more if there was Commander damage or a higher starting life total, or even a cap on each deck’s monetary value. These are all real possibilities that you and your playgroup could consider when making the format your own.
Sample Decks
What introduction/analysis of a format would be complete without providing you with a few brews to give you a solid jumping-off point?
Zo-Zu the Punisher
1x Ball Lightning 1x Brimstone Volley 1x Burst Lightning 1x Chandras Phoenix 1x Char 1x Eidolon of the Great Revel 1x Firebolt 1x Flames of the Blood Hand 1x Goblin Guide 1x Grim Lavamancer 1x Hells Thunder 1x Hellspark Elemental 1x Isochron Scepter 1x Lightning Bolt 1x Magma Jet 1x Molten Rain 1x Monastery Swiftspear 17x Mountain 1x Price of Progress 1x Prophetic Flamespeaker 1x Pyrostatic Pillar 1x Rift Bolt 1x Searing Blaze 1x Searing Blood 1x Shard Volley 1x Skullcrack 1x Staggershock 1x Stormblood Berserker 1x Sudden Shock 1x Sulfuric Vortex 1x Urzas Rage 1x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle 1x Exquisite Firecraft
Sideboard:
1x Arcane Lighthouse
1x Banefire
1x Blood Moon
1x Rending Volley
1x Dragon's Claw
1x Hammer of Purphoros
1x Glaring Spotlight
1x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Smash to Smithereens
The goal here is to punish the opponent for doing anything. Between Zo-Zu, Pyrostatic Pillar/Eidolon of the Great Revel, and copious amounts of burn, the opponent isn’t likely to recover from our initial volley of high-impact creatures. With the sideboard, we gain the ability to hit some of the bigger Commanders efficiently and prevent ourselves from taking too much damage against opposing aggro.
"BUG" Placeholder Commander
1x Abrupt Decay 1x Brainstorm 1x Jace, Vryns Prodigy 1x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver 1x Black Suns Zenith 1x Bloodstained Mire 1x Breeding Pool 1x Command Tower 1x Constant Mists 1x Dictate of Kruphix 1x Drowned Catacomb 1x Far / Away 1x Fog 2x Forest 1x Hinterland Harbor 1x Howling Mine 1x Inquisition of Kozilek 3x Island 1x Isochron Scepter 1x Lull 1x Mental Misstep 1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea 1x Mind Grind 1x Moments Peace 1x Moonmist 1x Nephalia Drownyard 1x Opulent Palace 1x Overgrown Tomb 1x Polluted Delta 1x Respite 1x Rites of Flourishing 1x Smother 1x Sphinxs Tutelage 1x Spore Cloud 1x Stroke of Genius 1x Sultai Charm 1x Swamp 1x Swan Song 1x Tangle 1x Temple Bell 1x Thoughtseize 1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 1x Verdant Catacombs 1x Watery Grave 1x Woodland Cemetery
Sideboard:
1x Bow of Nylea
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Dispel
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Krosan Grip
1x Natural State
1x Negate
1x Pithing Needle
1x Thing in the Ice
Flip
1x Relic of Progenitus
Hate the meta like I did? Pilot this brew and remind everyone how much they hate Turbo-Fog! Of our limited choices for Planeswalkers in the format, Ashiok is really one of the strongest choices. On the play, he’s not likely to be dealt with right away and the mill cuts deep in a 50-card format. Drawing lots of cards per turn and defending yourself is the goal and you’re given a number of ways to repeatedly do so.
Happy tapping, players!
zandlServo_Token says... #2
I'm in the camp of "Let's let it fade into history". As described above, there is little that the format offers that either legacy or commander do not offer, and playing just felt like a bad game of legacy for the majority of players. Let's just play legacy. If we're into one-of card interactions, just play EDH because there is more support for that format.
July 8, 2016 9:15 p.m.
Tiny leaders never caught on with our playgroup. It looked like a less-fun version of commander. I can only play SMALL spells and my deck only contains HALF as many? Really sucks the wind out of the sails when the reason I love commander is to make big splashy plays.
So that being said, I think part of the reason the hype died down is because of perception. As you explained. people were expecting it to be like commander when in reality it ended up more like Legacy. I think if you want it to catch on again, you have to pitch it as Legacy-lite (or casual Legacy) instead of "small Commander."
In this vein it may appeal to players who don't like long drawn out (or political) games of Commander but still want to play casually in a Legacy-legal environment.
July 8, 2016 9:18 p.m.
I loved the format, but my friend got sick of it, so I'm just out of luck.
July 8, 2016 10:20 p.m.
I have a Tiny Leaders deck that I have played about 4 times total. No one is interested anymore; I don't even bother asking.
For me, the appeal was to be able to play cool cards that aren't legal in standard anymore, but aren't good in modern. My deck is Yasova Dragonclaw, so I got to play Goblin Rabblemaster, Savage Knuckleblade, and Mistcutter Hydra.
July 8, 2016 10:25 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #6
I love tiny leaders for a few reasons. Chief among them is the fact that I LOVE building commander decks, much to my wallet's dismay. TO that end I can get my fix for certain commanders by building a tiny leaders deck.
For example Doran. I had a full size Doran deck at one point and when I started cutting down on my EDH decks he got the axe but he's such a fun commander I felt I had to build it. Fortunately there are 3 1 drop 0/4s that exist to make Doran silly. Also Skinshifter is kinda broken if he can dodge removal.
My point is that Tiny leaders gives me an outlet to build specific strategies that would otherwise go unbuilt.
I don't play super competitively either so I'm not too worried about it.
July 8, 2016 11:21 p.m.
Postmortal_Pop says... #8
Honestly, tiny leaders would fun but my play group of all about long EDH matches. Without being deeply ingrained into the format it just looks like EDH's spoiled little brother.
But there is a hidden plan D, why not rebuild the format so it doesn't look like commander-lite? Take out the singleton? Change what can be the commander? I've always wanted a valid Circu, Dimir Lobotomist deck,make that possible. Tiny leaders just needs to be unique.
July 9, 2016 1:22 a.m.
To answer the question posed in the title, it died out completely (thank goodness). Having never reached the needed critical mass of players to sustain itself due to lack of advertising and general bad format design.
July 9, 2016 3 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #10
Yeah, I'm with DevoidMage here. There's not really any point in trying to make it work.
Kind of an aside: I did have some buddies who mocked it by coming up with a hilarious format called "Fatty Tyrants" in which all spells had to have at least 4 CMC and the decks were 200 cards. Had its own banlist and everything.
One of them built Maelstrom Wanderer and a bunch of awesome things to cascade into. I mean, a lot of the interaction was crap and the format was absurdly slow. What are your opponents going to do about it?
July 9, 2016 5:42 a.m.
For me it never got real love from players around me. That was simply because not only a very few commanders where considered be playing due to their power level, but it was also that all decks loocked the same. Most times players went to the idea of Stoneforge Mystic and the swords. They simply had to add a random legend that fits their chosen colors. Also the power level off all the swords seemed to be bonkers.
So even before getting any serious try in my area, most players lost interrest in it.
Until....
I mad it a cube.
I realized that TL really played a lot like legacy and noticed, that most familiars of mine were in fact playing legacy. So why was it so hard to get their interrest, because games were decided as soon as a player hits his sword. The problem in this specific Format was, that there weren't a lot of versatile answers for critical threats, nor were there ways to stop them from happening (eg. Force of Will).
OK, fine. There were answers but most time they were agglomerated in a specific color or guild, which clearly weakened several color combinations.
Another problem was the short short list of commanders compared to EDH. I mean it's not good when Gruul and Dimir only have a single legend, but Abzan or Selenysa has 6 or so. This reached a significant imbalance colorwise for the format.
But that was solved for me as i created a cube, where only a single player could pick the mystic, but no sword.
So it got a lot more versatile, since we're drafting whole nights and several decks/commanders each to kept it more casual and diverse.
If anyone is interrested in trying it as cube, it would be helpful if anyone outside of my playgroup here, would draft it and leave decks.
But simply keep it like a casual round with friends, which is cube for me.
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/26159
July 9, 2016 9:36 a.m.
For me it never got real love from players around me. That was simply because not only a very few commanders where considered be playing due to their power level, but it was also that all decks loocked the same. Most times players went to the idea of Stoneforge Mystic and the swords. They simply had to add a random legend that fits their chosen colors. Also the power level off all the swords seemed to be bonkers.
So even before getting any serious try in my area, most players lost interrest in it.
Until....
I mad it a cube.
I realized that TL really played a lot like legacy and noticed, that most familiars of mine were in fact playing legacy. So why was it so hard to get their interrest, because games were decided as soon as a player hits his sword. The problem in this specific Format was, that there weren't a lot of versatile answers for critical threats, nor were there ways to stop them from happening (eg. Force of Will).
OK, fine. There were answers but most time they were agglomerated in a specific color or guild, which clearly weakened several color combinations.
Another problem was the short short list of commanders compared to EDH. I mean it's not good when Gruul and Dimir only have a single legend, but Abzan or Selenysa has 6 or so. This reached a significant imbalance colorwise for the format.
But that was solved for me as i created a cube, where only a single player could pick the mystic, but no sword.
So it got a lot more versatile, since we're drafting whole nights and several decks/commanders each to kept it more casual and diverse.
If anyone is interrested in trying it as cube, it would be helpful if anyone outside of my playgroup here, would draft it and leave decks.
But simply keep it like a casual round with friends, which is cube for me.
http://www.cubetutor.com/cubeblog/26159
July 9, 2016 9:36 a.m.
I think it's easier as a restriction than it's own format -- Either as TL all the way down, or having a normal commander and no cards in the 99 over 3CMC.
July 9, 2016 11:23 a.m.
PepsiAddicted says... #14
it was fun for a while and then it died. and thats ok. in the end basically every1 here was on sydri shop (not workshop ofc) as we called it.
July 9, 2016 4:33 p.m. Edited.
shaistyone says... #15
We liked it a lot. For me, I liked the building process intensely. My wife liked it because the games were quicker. :)
I made 6-7 different decks, with varying success. I don't think I lost a match with my Grenzo deck (beating Ezuri 3 times, much to its owner's rage).
Deckbuilds I was most happy with:
Flying Leaders
Aggro All Over the Place
Glissa Infect Engine Tiny Leaders - when I beat the Ezuri guy with this, he left.. lol
Deathtouch Pingers - this one worked the best, for sure
July 9, 2016 6:42 p.m.
We have a small group of people playing TL in our LGS, around 6. I just around to building mine last week and played it. It's just so much fun to play this format.
Our LGS' owner also has a deck and is trying to push for TL tourneys soon.
Brimaz W Tokens here's what I concocted.
July 10, 2016 12:51 a.m.
Holy Mother of God, the commas didn't make it in. Will fix soon.
As for your thoughts, it's obviously up to your playgroups to decide on what's best and what your big interests are. If no one in your group has ever played TL but they're big on EDH, I think it's worth a shot. Chances are they'll all build similarly competitive decks with what they have available.
July 10, 2016 5:22 a.m.
Barrelrider says... #18
While I like the idea of 50 cards and more consistency, I don't like that I can't play my favorite tribes. No dragons, demons, treefolks or angels.. which mean a big fail for casual players. The decks ultimately become goodstuff.
July 10, 2016 2:37 p.m.
wizardsasylum says... #19
Just play Canadian Highlander. It's 10x the format Tiny Leaders is.
July 10, 2016 3:49 p.m.
Tiny leaders needs to fade away and die. It adds nothing to Wizards already diverse formats, it's a worse EDH and an even worse Legacy.
July 10, 2016 4:37 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #21
A couple of people at the card shop got really excited about it all of a sudden, so I built my Xira Arien Tiny Leader to try it out. Within a month no one was really talking about it anymore. I haven't played a match with anyone in a very long time and I need to go ahead and take that deck apart since it has some really good cards that would be much better off elsewhere. I might still build the silly casual Soraya the Falconer Tiny Leader deck I thought up, just to have something ready on the off chance someone happens to bring it up again. I'm not very optimistic on the format's chances to come back though, at least not in my local scene.
July 10, 2016 4:57 p.m.
Deckologist says... #22
My group decided it was a useless format when we realized it was essentially just bad singleton legacy a with a free tutor.
July 10, 2016 5:12 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #23
I'm not sure anyone really forgot about it. People lost interest because the format was quickly solved and not very diverse. With a restriction of cmc 3 or less there are objectively best cards for each purpose.
Want a removal spell in 
? Abrupt Decay is a 2 mana instant speed vindicate.
Inquisition of Kozilek is now Thoughtseize without the lifeloss.
Unearth is a powerhouse reanimation spell (why you would reanimate in TL is beyond me, but there it is)
Eidolon of the Great Revel is stupidly good burn.
The mana restriction of the format just changes how strategies work too much for most people's liking.
July 10, 2016 5:58 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #25
https://canadianhighlander.wordpress.com/intro-to-format/
That particular form of highlander is curated by a group of people that play at Yellow Jacket in Victoria, BC, Canada. Yes the same Yellow Jacket that is in Friday Nights on WotC's youtube.
July 10, 2016 7:41 p.m.
I enjoy the article, but agree with the overall sentiment to "Let it Go!". TL is fun foray, but it is ultimately not as rewarding as other formats. I would try to adjust the rules for multiplayer though, it could be better.
I second Canadian Highlander as the best form of TL. It keeps the 1-on-1 and singleton nature, but curbs brokenness with a nicely curated points list. It feels more like Cube Constructed than anything else.
July 11, 2016 3:21 a.m.
iBleedPunk says... #29
A worse EDH. I would rather play Spark Wars (PW Commander, 75 cards including commander, only Lorwyn+ legal, 30 life, follows alot of the same rules as EDH) than a game where I am limited to 3CMC or less. Let it die!
-Insert 3 Days Grace pun here-
July 12, 2016 2:43 a.m. Edited.
Singing to Tiny Leaders -- "I hate everything about you!"
July 12, 2016 2:49 a.m.
TheRedMage says... #31
You know, I have heard a lot of people be very negative about the cmc-3-or-less restriction but to me it was actually a serious upside.
I love efficiency. I have no interest in casting 9-mana spells with large effects that you could never resolve in any other format. I'd rather my opponent and I try to squeeze every ounce of power from our utility 2-drops, fighting for every single point of damage along the way while finally swinging for exactsies on turn 8 rather than play a race to constantly go on top of my opponent, or be called "rude" when my deck is designed to stop them from doing exactly that.
The appeal of singleton for me is not exploration - it's nostalgia. It's not that I can play cards that were too expensive for standard, rather, it's that the cards I used to play in Standard but are not good enough for Modern or Legacy now have a home in my singleton deck. But a lot of those cards are efficient removal spells and counterspells and you can't play too many of those in EDH, since point removal is actually card disadvantage in multiplayer.
Because of this, TL had me very interested when it came out. I built three decks, a budget Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero mono-W control deck, Zo-Zu the Punisher RDW and Angus Mackenzie Intruder Alarm combo. The format quickly evaporated and I disassembled those, although I still have the lists here on TO.
These days, I look at Canadian Highlander to scratch the same itch - to have a format that is singleton, allowing me to play "sweet" cards, but also competitive and 1v1, which is the style I prefer. The format doesn't have quite the popularity TL achieved at its peak, but it's growing. I can hope :)
July 12, 2016 3:32 a.m.
I still love and play Tiny Leaders pretty regularly. It is a fun dynamic way to play without the huge time (and often money) commitment of commander. Check out any of my Tiny Leader decks for people looking to brew slightly different decks.
One Very Small Mill
Tiny Leaders
SCORE: 4 | 6 COMMENTS | 869 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
Little Robots
Tiny Leaders*
SCORE: 8 | 13 COMMENTS | 2083 VIEWS | IN 2 FOLDERS
Tiny Leader, Big Essence
Tiny Leaders
SCORE: 1 | 321 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
July 12, 2016 9:32 p.m.
captain_sisay_2591 says... #34
Wow, reading everyone's comments is truly enlightening. I forgot how elitist and snobbish MTG players can be. How foolish of me!
July 13, 2016 2:49 a.m.
captain_sisay_2591 Because we don't like to play a format that has 3 OP commanders, that everyone plays, and where there isn't a large pool of cards that are better than others? It's not that we/they/me are elitist -- it's that the format is not fun. It was not created to be so. The format was figured out, you always play X spells in X color, and there was no creativity because creativity was beaten over the head by the decks that are clearly better.
July 13, 2016 3:12 a.m.
I played (and still do) Tiny Leaders with my play group.But we treat it as a 'cmc 3 and lower' commander: perhaps not entirely fair, but it does give access to spells normally not played in commander. Note: we play casual. However, as a result most Tiny Leader games we play are not fast, we seldom play more tiny leader on a given evening then we would have played commander games, but they are FUN :)
July 13, 2016 7:27 a.m.
IIRC, being elitist is assuming your own opinions are correct and that others' don't matter.
July 13, 2016 11:57 a.m.
zandl Indeed. I think we just upset him with our opinions. Oh well.
July 13, 2016 2:04 p.m.
Wasn't picking a side. You were both being unreasonable.
"It's not that we/they/me are elitist -- it's that the format is not fun."
Right; in your opinion.
July 13, 2016 2:19 p.m. Edited.
I don't know about anyone else, but I still play Tiny Leaders. It has really declined though for some reason.
July 13, 2016 4:06 p.m.
TheRedMage says... #41
Ok, I am saying sorry in advance because this is going to be a bit of a wall of text.
I'd argue that since we are talking about fun, subjectivity is kind of implied. But the conversation I read kinda went this way
A: "I like thing X for these reasons."
B: "Well, ok, I don't like thing X. The reasons you mentioned aren't really as important to me as they are to you, and I have these other reasons for not liking it."
A: "You are elitist and snobbish."
Is B being demeaning of A's reasons here? Maybe. I personally don't think so, but maybe it can be construed that way. Still, you don't get to respond to an attack to the thing we are talking about with an attack to the person voicing those opinions. That not only is not really a good way to make a point - it also escalates the tones, and nobody wants that.
I think that even the people that are really down on the format are willing to concede a point.
The format can be played in a way that it's fun. The problem that most people have is that that way is not the way the format was marketed. This format was not appealing to me because it could be "more competitive commander with small cards" - It was appealing because it could be "singleton cheaper legacy", and the TL website was pushing that angle as much as it was pushing the commander one, if not more.
When we said the format "failed" or that it "was unfun" what we really mean is that it was fragile. When people started playing it as if it were legacy, an established metagame formed, and it proved to be rather unhealthy. A handful of decks were clearly better than others to the point that they were close to being the only viable ones in a tournament setting, and for a non-rotating format that is not exactly a good sign.
If you forego the "competitive" part entirely, and just play with casual decks, then yes, the format can be fun, and it can be rewarding. But - and I feel this is an important point - some of us are not interested in playing casually and there is nothing wrong with wanting a competitive experience from each one of your games.
When TL was introduced to my playgroup we started with unrefined decks and then an arms race started till everybody was playing a tier 1 or tier 1.5 deck. That kind of playgroup is the one where TL couldn't work. I am not complaining about my playgroup here - we are competitive people, and when we play magic we want to play at the highest level a format allows. Once again there is nothing wrong with that, even if that might not be the way that you choose to experience magic. When you tried playing it that way, the format ended up not being great.
I want to reiterate that the TL website claimed that this was a viable way of playing this format. We didn't just come up with this idea willy-nilly, it was there when we started, and it was part of the reason we tried our hand at TL in the first place.
I am sure there are playgroups out there that, coming from a Commander background rather than a "tournament magic" background, are more able to stop this arms race from happening, and are more capable to keep playing Tiny Leaders at the "casual" level at which the format is still fun to play. I don't mean to say that those groups are not playing the format right, or that I don't care about their opinions because they are casual scrubs. Their experiences with TL are as valuable as mine - and probably they are having more fun playing the format, so they are the real winners here. Theirs is a way to play the format. Ours was another, and it turns out the format can't really be played that way, which is why we moved on.
July 13, 2016 5:39 p.m.
TL is gone b/c UWx is just too good. Geist of Saint Traft and Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest basically destroy every other deck.
July 13, 2016 6:33 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #43
I really wish I could upvote TheRedMage's comment. I disagree on some of the points but the overall tone sums up how I feel about people trying to say that others are being elitists. The question was posed "what happened to tiny leaders?" and those of us who do not have fun in the format have tried to answer why it failed. It wasn't that casuals got pushed out by people playing powerful magic. It is that people playing powerful magic didn't find the format interesting enough to keep playing. This was compounded by the fact that TL marketed itself and was curated as a "competitive format".
July 13, 2016 7:23 p.m.
Gidgetimer Absolutely. I wish I had expressed my thoughts more eloquently, but that's exactly how I feel.
July 13, 2016 10:04 p.m.
metalevolence says... #46
All the "problems" with this format stem from the initiative to make it a competitive, tournament format. As a kitchen table 2-player game, it's great.
Multiplayer EDH decks do not make for good games when you have only 2 players. It tends to be a massive blowout one way or the other. Tiny Leaders decks are easy and fun to build with whatever cards you have on hand, and make for some great, interactive games.
As soon as you are going out and buying efficient cards for Tiny Leaders, you fucked up.
July 14, 2016 8:09 a.m.
Dredge4life says... #47
I enjoyed TL from a competitive standpoint. It gave me a way to play Legacy without actually having to spend thousands on cards.
July 14, 2016 8:31 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #48
I have to disagree a little on U/W/X dominating EVERYTHING.
Doran/Anafenza, with access to cards like Pernicious Deed, Anguished Unmaking, Abrupt Decay, and Vindicate can make for some incredibly powerful midrange fair decks. (Personally I use Doran because Tower Defense combined with Behind the Scenes/Skeleton Key is essentially Overrun. There's also the subtle "deals damage from toughness" that -X/+0 effects like Jace VP can't do anything about.)
July 14, 2016 8:35 a.m. Edited.
TheRedMage says... #49
metalevolence: the problem is that some of us went into the format because it could be competitive. Once you remove that part, a lot of the appeal is gone for us Spikes.
July 14, 2016 2:50 p.m.
metalevolence says... #50
Seems like a worse competitive experience than legacy or modern, unless maybe TL got a modern-sized ban list.
Also seems less interesting than French EDH tbh
If you're looking for a budget way to get your competitive constructed fix, maybe Pauper constructed?
July 14, 2016 3:05 p.m.
TheRedMage says... #51
No, I agree that it's a worse competitive experience than any of those formats. We just didn't know that going in.
It's not that people got this idea of playing TL competitively from thin air. It was a key part of how the format was marketed.
July 14, 2016 3:19 p.m.
Deckologist says... #52
Correct. It was supposed to be the "fair" alternative to French EDH. But as stated before it was the sloppy omelette that ended up just being scrambled eggs.
July 14, 2016 9:07 p.m.
I found these comments thoroughly entertaining.
Good piece as usual zandl.
Crayfish says... #1
I thought Tiny Leaders was a fun format when I started, but then I discovered EDH and my TL decks were scrapped to build EDH. For me and my playgroup, who was relatively new at the time, the thought of building a commander deck was frightening and a daunting task. 100 DIFFERENT cards that have to follow the colors of a legendary? WHAT?!
So when we found TL, we fell in love. Easier to construct, interesting to build around, and an overall good time. I had waaaaay to many TL decks, including Vorel of the Hull Clade, Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer, Daxos of Meletis, and Masako the Humorless. We played TL for a few months at tops, then came EDH. We decided to give it a shot, and now almost exclusively play EDH.
So for us, TL was like a stepping stone into EDH. While many people say they play almost nothing alike, which can be true, it gave us a taste of commander-based singleton. It taught us better synergistic building, how to build within color restrictions, and building for or around a commander.
Do I think its a wonderful format? While that depends on your playgroup, it is undeniably interesting. Its a very niche format, and is good for people with smaller collections, or those wanting an easier taste of EDH, in my opinion
TL;DR: Tiny Leaders brought me into EDH, and I feel it is better for newer playgroups to easily get a grasp on a commander-based format.
July 8, 2016 8:30 p.m.