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|Commander / EDH
|Commander: Rule 0
Sacrifice a land: Add to your mana pool one mana of any type the sacrificed land could produce.
1 year ago
1 year ago
I love the The Gitrog Monster, and he was the first commander that I built and owned.
Some recommendations I have for you are:
If you are wholly committed to the combo, Squandered Resources will become one of the best cards in your deck. It lets you generate significant amounts of mana and card draw to find Skirge Familiar and Dakmor Salvage.
Although not as good, I also enjoyed having Zuran Orb in my commander deck to draw boat-loads of cards.
1 year ago
i am unable to upload a deck list at this time but here is the template
(30) lands - 21 Basics
(17) Fetch - Pulls lands from library onto the battlefield
(14) Recursion - Pull Cards From GY
(12) Mill/Dredge - Put Cards From Library To GY
(9) Wipe - Wipe Permanents Off The Board
(8) Break - Destroy/Exile Non Land Permenent
(7) Repsond - Instant Speed Response Spells ie Mana Tithe, Bind, Imp's Mischief
(3) Sac Land - Enables White Fetchs Zuran Orb,Squandered Resources, Overgrown Estate
as for mana curveSyr Konrad, the Grim,Thieving Amalgam, & Dreadhound are my high cmc's everything else out side of whats listed are 3 or less
1 year ago
jaymc1130: I think the easiest way to address your comment is directly.
"There are about a dozen players in the entire world who can play that game at a truly competitive level out of the 100s of thousands that play."
I would say that this comment pretty adequtely sums up the point you're trying to make in paragraph one. The biggest flaw I see here is that you're basically claiming that there's so few "actual" cEDH players that it boils down to you and your playgroup. And sure, if that's the premise of your position, then I can't challenge that argument as I'm sure the card has made a big splash in your playgroup. But the problem you now have is sample size. If your definition of the meta is only the players you deem as "competitive" then you your data is going to be massively skewed, regardless of how good your combo is.
Your second point around Strip Mine being the dominant meta deck falls into the exact issue as I raised in the previous paragraph. And while I'll admit that I'm not 100% up to date with every little thing with regards to cEDH, I have seen little to no Strip Mine/Azusa, Lost but Seeking across the greater decklists I have seen. And I am by no means calling myself the be-all and end-all of cEDH (by a large margin) however if it was such a dominant stragety you'd think it would be much more heavily played.
I understand that the combo can have plenty of resilience if you add more cards, however your original post never talked about Trade Routes. Using it as an argument now does indeed increase the redundancy in your deck, but at the cost of card slots. Similaryly I could put together a commander deck that had 10-15 points of redundancy, but at the cost of the vast majority of card slots. Additonally, the point I made around lynch pins with Squandered Resources was in direct refernce to your deck T&T Bloom Scepter [cEDH Primer] which runs neither Crucible of Worlds or Trade Routes and which was updated 1 day ago so I would assume is up to date.
"All people look at is what channels like PwP or LM do on youtube and think that stuff is competitive in nature. It is not. Those are exclusively amateur players playing in a mostly amateur fashion. In fact, from a level of gameplay perspective, most of their videos are unwatchable because the level of play is just plain terrible."
First off, I will preface this by saying that I occasionally watch these videos and by not means am drawing on them as my sole inspiration for deckbuilding. I will state however that for the vast majority of players, this is what they consider cEDH, along with Labmaniacs and a few others. And while you can poo-poo this all you like, we then come back to the "sample size" argument.
My issue though with your spruiking of the combo comes down to adoption rate. While you did make the comment that "the cEDH community is glacially slow to adapt and learn new things", cards like Thassa's Oracle were immediately adopted by the community as a whole which somewhat disproves this. Even cards like Codie, Vociferous Codex are being heavily played now as very strong commanders. And again, while I have said before and will happily say again that I do think your combo is a good combo package, I would challenge your insinuation that the only reason the entirity of the cEDH community isn't playing it is becuase they're all just slow (insert ItsTheChildrenThatAreWrong.gif).
As a side note, and this is entirely personal advice - take it how you want, I think that part of the reason you're having certain issues with people taking your deck seriously comes down to perceived attitude. I have seen you on tapped out for well over a year spruiking this strategy of yours, however the problem I see is that A) you cosntatly talk about the combo package with little to no explanation about how it works (or even a reference to a deck which explains it) and B) have a habit of talking down to people who disagree with your opinion.
On the point of A - I understand that there are a lot of moving parts in the combo and I understand that it's an advanced combo to pilot, but you're not winning any friends by attempting to set the bar to entry as "if you don't understand it from the pile of cards then you're not good enough to play it and not worth my time". I'm not saying that this is your intention, however I have read multiple posts on multiple threads from you about this and this is the vibe that I pick up repeatedly. And I'm not saying that you have to be on the other end of the spectrum either, but you will definitely help change others' opinions about the strategy if you first help them to understand it and the many layers it has.
On the point of B (which I have kind of covered above) - coming at every discussion about the strategy with an air of arrogance is generally going to drive people away, not make them eager to learn more. As for your professional MtG prowess, I understand the importance of anonymity on the internet, however the double edged sword is that people talk a lot of crap on the internet that may or may not be true. And while I don't want you to think that I'm straight up calling you a liar, I'm sure you can understand that many people take others' comments with a grain of salt, lest be continously deceived. It might also be the Australian in me but generally here people who talk themselves up repeatedly get called a lot of four letter words.
Edit for clarity - In general I don't think that there's an issue with your interactions on other places on the site and I have even seen you leave a lot of helpful advice for others. I am referring specifically to conversations around this particular topic of discussion.
As for the MLB thing, I did not know that at all, but that's pretty cool. I'm personally not a baseball fan (it's not big here) but I have met quite a few athletes in my day who performed at the kind of level you're talking about in other sports, so I know that's a big achievement.
1 year ago
While I can appreciate your enthusiasm for the combo and new cards coming out which work with it (I think most people get excited when new cards come out that are instant upgrades to their deck), I don't think that this will be meta changing and as much as I know you're very proud of your combo, I don't think it's going to have a big impact on EDH above and beyond the standalone impact of Boseiju, Who Endures.
We've had combos like Strip Mine + Crucible of Worlds + Azusa, Lost but Seeking for years and yet this hasn't been flagged as banworthy. And while Boseiju has some untility above being a removal spell, using cards like Assassin's Trophy to form win condition removal loops has also been around for a long time with no issue. So while this is a nice boon for mono-green decks, it's not a game changer.
Additionally, while you get extra utility from having cards which work in the deck outside of combo, the number of card slots you have to devote to making the combo work is still very high - even if you are using your described Squandered Resources lines. Plus even those lines have lynch pin cards, typically in the form of recursion pieces like Crucible of Worlds or Ramunap Excavator - remove these and you've killed the entire bloom line in the deck. Even if the deck can pivot to another combo line (like Dramatic scepter) that would be the case if you'd have included any two mutually exclusive combo lines so the point of the argument is more around combo density than it is around the specific bloom combo.
As I've said in the past, I think it's a very viable combo line and I do like the fact that many cards pull double duty however I just don't think that the combo is going to make waves above and beyond the impact made by Boseiju, Who Endures as a standalone card. And I'm happy to be proved wrong. But compared to cards like Thassa's Oracle (which don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of) which have become such a staple in the cEDH world due to the ease and compactness of the combo, I don't think you're going to draw the ire of the ban hammer. Ultimately though, isn't that a good thing? And if we do see bans due to Boseiju, I would expect that it's Boseiju itself which is more likely to see the ban than any of the other cards listed.
1 year ago
AstroAA Sometimes a silly initial idea can lead to a fundamentally powerful truth. That's part of why our group initially started running the original Bloom Combo in any Sultai shell. There are lots of combos in the game that are very powerful, and evaluating total efficiency in competitive settings can help a player win more games by streamlining deck play patterns through deck construction techniques.
For example, a quick comparison of some of the combos we've discussed so far, Bloom Combo, Dramatic Scepter Combo, and Thoracle Consult Combo.
Thassa's Oracle + Demonic Consultation requires 2 card slots in a deck to be able to produce a win with a total mana investment of . It's not just compact in mana investment and card slots, it's also stack compact, requiring just the Oracle trigger, holding priority, and the Consult naming a card not in the deck. All of these factors combine to make it extremely efficient at the job it does and this comes with the trade off of extremely high risk to go with such an efficient maximum reward. If your attempt gets stuffed at the point where you exile your deck but your Oracle trigger doesn't resolve successfully then you get to enjoy perhaps a turn cycle before dying immediately on your next upkeep. Extreme efficiency with the trade off of some knuckle whitening risk. It makes this a great combo to employ at a moment's notice in situations where you can fit it in while opponents didn't leave themselves with enough resources to defend against the line of play, but not usually ideal being used into the full grip and untapped mana bases of opponents ready to interact and the two cards won't generate much value while waiting for the opportune moment as they sit in hand.
Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal is a 2 card combo that generates infinite untaps of nonland permanents with a minimum of 1 additional card that itself is a nonland mana producing permanent (ie, Sol Ring). The loop can become mana positive with certain cards or combinations of cards (Mana Vault, or Arcane Signet+Sol Ring). And that infinite mana can be used with some sort of outlet card to produce a win. So it's a combo that at a minimum will require 4 cards to produce a win, though more often 5 or 6. The mana investment is to play and activate, which is more efficient than the number of card slots that will need to be dedicated to it. It's a combo with components that will have at least some value over time before the combo is activated outright since those dorks and rocks can probably cast another spell, so it has some natural play pattern efficiency. If stuffed, there's a pretty decent chance of losing access to this combo in the future. If the Scepter is destroyed in response to it's first activation, for example, you'll be out the exiled Dramatic Reversal from the imprint even if you can get the Scepter back into play later on. So still maximum reward potential, but less impactful risk to go with the slightly less efficient overall set up since you won't lose if stuffed. It's a combo that can be played pretty easily into opponents ready to defend since it will generate mana to interact with them after starting it's loop and the mana investment on your end is pretty low, but an easy one to interact with for opponents so it's liable to be one they stuff if thrown out wily nilly.
Summer Bloom + Mystic Sanctuary + Waterlogged Grove + Squandered Resources + Ramunap Excavator + Noxious Revival + green land is 7 pieces in total, but one is only needed as the "outlet" (Noxious Revival to loop the deck) and another can be essentially any random land that might be lying around to bring the core down to those 5 unique cards. With the initial 6 cards in place and Revival in the deck the initial mana investment can be as low as to begin the line of play by casting the Summer Bloom. If some of the other pieces aren't in play then the initial investment cost isn't quite so shockingly efficient, but the combo is still solid in terms of card slot and mana investment efficiency when not wowing. Not much risk if the attempt is stuffed, and there's a decent chance you can just try again by saccing the Sanctuary and replaying it to get the Summer Bloom back if countered for example, but the same maximum potential reward of winning the game. Most of the pieces of the combo are value components themselves so they fit naturally into most board state development play patterns allowing you to both spend resources reacting to opponents and amass resources in play and in hand when they don't present serious threats. By far the most conservative of these 3 combos, but far more flexible in it's approach while minimizing potential risks to lose the game.
1 year ago
Lol, yep, combo checks out. And yeah, you can cut or replace certain pieces of it depending on what other exact pieces are being used. There are tons of combos like this and the working iterations you can find that function with only about 4 or 5 unique pieces are generally going to be the variations you'll more consistently be able to count on using in a game. The nifty thing about the Summer Bloom concept is that it's pieces are mostly going to be cards a player finds they just have "lying around" when the time comes, similar to how the classic Dramatic Scepter combo is a "2 card combo" that utilizes whatever interchangeable dorks and rocks you just so happen to have in play as it's component cogs. In many situations Summer Bloom combos will need the Summer Bloom that's just hanging out in your graveyard, a couple of different lands you already got into play, your play from graveyard effect that's been helping build up your board state the whole time, and a mechanism to return the Bloom to hand if a land isn't being used for the return mechanism. A lot of times it means this combo really only needs you to find Squandered Resources or a bounce effect for lands since the others pieces accumulated on your board as natural development plays (which can make it less likely opponents spend important resources and interaction on you since you're "just playing mana dorks and rocks").
2 years ago
I appreciate the compliment! In real life, it plays extremely well, but you have to be a very good decision maker. It’s very controlling! But obviously you can’t control an entire table. Be smart with what you destroy and what combat you fog and which ones you don’t.
This deck is anything but slow! There’s so much card draw that filtering through your deck is no problem. Honestly 50% of the time, you will win with any combination of Turnabout, Rude Awakening, Squandered Resources, Rain of Filth into a Torment of Hailfire. Use any combination of those cards at the right time and you’ll ramp out of nowhere for the win!