|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Time Spiral (TSP)||Common|
Combos Browse all
Call to the Netherworld
Return target black creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
Madness (0) (If you discard this card, you may play it for its madness cost instead of putting it into your graveyard.)
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
Call to the Netherworld Discussion
2 months ago
Hi there, i'll share all the knowledge i've gathered after playing discard decks for more than 5 years (i've built monoblack creatureless discard, monoblack creature discard, UB discard, RB discard, Grixis discard, specter discard, etc.).
The first i see here is that you don't have anything to deal with the board, so you'll more than probably die to anything that hits the board, even a simple 3/1 two-drop. Your deck relies too much on damaging your opponent through giving him many cards and forcing him to discard not that many; the only card in your deck that punishes him this way is Liliana's Caress and that's it, it's not reliable. You also run two copies of Painful Quandary which it's ideal mechanics are to punish your opponent for having no hand, but since you are forcing him to draw so many cards, he'll always have the option to discard while playing a spell (only taking 2 damage from Liliana's Caress and only if you have the enchant on the battlefield).
You have many cards that allow you or your opponent to draw and discard cards, but you only have Alms of the Vein to exploit this mechanic, so get rid of those or stick in more madness cards.
The description says "the goal of this deck is to get your opponent as low as possible", but you can't do that quickly by relying only on 4 copies of Liliana's Caress while you'll be recieving lot's of threats and hits. Master of the Feast will for sure get destroyed by any of the thousands removal spells you'll force your opponent to draw, so it won't be dealing too much damage if any.
Let's work on the solution. First of all, you need your deck to have more consistant way to deal damage and you also need to get rid of your opponent's threats until you've reached mid-late game and you can develop your winning mechanics.
Since you have almost no creature, let's take advantage of that so that you can trade one card of yours for many cards of your opponent. Good cards to do this, depending on the money you want to spend are, for example, Drown in Sorrow , Yahenni's Expertise , Languish and Damnation.
You also need to be faster or at least to be able to delay your opponent's strategy. A way of doing this is by disrupting his early moves to wreck his plan. Cards like Inquisition of Kozilek , Thoughtseize , Duress and Despise excell at doing so.
To strenghten the draw and discard engine you have many cards at your disposal. I don't know if you want to keep the deck in the modern format or to build a casual free of legal restriction deck, so I'll recommend a variety of cards like Chains of Mephistopheles , Probe , Wheel and Deal , Ill-Gotten Gains , Urza's Guilt , Anvil of Bogardan , Whispering Madness , Dark Deal , Font of Mythos , Forced Fruition , Geier Reach Sanitarium , Memory Jar and Temple Bell.
You need more cards than Liliana's Caress to punish your opponent for discarding or drawing cards. All of these are good for the task, suit yourself: Underworld Dreams , Psychosis Crawler , Fate Unraveler , Waste Not , Megrim and Words of Waste.
Since you and your opponent will be drawing lots of cards, you will be able to discard cards too or abuse your card-drawing. This does not only work well for madness, but also with delve, retrace and other cards. Consider some of these: Chain of Smog , Last Rites , Big Game Hunter , Raven's Crime , Syphon Life , Cunning Lethemancer , Necrogen Mists , Psychotic Haze , Call to the Netherworld , Dark Withering , Gibbering Descent and also Sphinx's Tutelage.
You'll be forcing your opponent to draw many many cards, so you'll need cards that make him discard more than one to win the trade. Consistant massive discard cards are for example this ones: Brink of Madness , Mindstab , Mind Twist , Mind Shatter or Delirium Skeins.
Which ones and how many
Pick the ones you like the most according to their mana costs and their price. Also consider the ammount of black mana symbols in their cost, because you'll be playing a two colors deck.
Try to keep it as balanced as you can in terms of cards functions. Maybe 30% draw/discard engine - 30% draw/discard punishment - 20% massive discard - 10% 1drops quality discard - 10% board whipe. You'll have to test and adjust the numbers.
I know most of those cards are black, but you can keep it UB if you want to. Best version I've made of this strategy was using Grixis (Blue Black and Red) because there's a lot of red cards that force both players to discard and draw like Burning Inquiry and Reforge the Soul for example. Grixis also enables the use of Nekusar, the Mindrazer , Blightning , Sedraxis Specter , Blazing Specter and Dack Fayden.
I hope it's helpful! Best wishes!
3 months ago
@TheBoraxKid with your suggestions i go more the solid and traditional way for aristocrats which makes sense of course, watch - Modern Aristocrats -, but when i add those cards every plan becomes questionable because then i have to less cards with madness and the whole deckidea with Call the Bloodline is away. I removed Call to the Netherworld, because falkenrath get pathed anyway in most scenarios for another Doomed Traveler. I go for the Traveler's for sure now. the rest i need to playtest, i will inform you guys how good this deck performs with the discard plan.
3 months ago
I second the Doomed Traveler suggestion. It just makes better sense in my opinion. Also, I would suggest making room for Lightning Bolts. You say Fiery Temper is just a bolt when discarded to Madness, but I think adding in the actual Lightning Bolt as a no condition 3 damage for one mana is a bit more efficient. Perhaps not as a direct replacement for Temper, but the card is simply stronger in many situations.
Overall, I'm a huge sucker for Vampires in Modern, so a +1 from me!
3 months ago
zambasss, I cloned your deck as I've been messing around with something similar, with a few differences.
- Goblin Lore replaced with Zombie Infestation, this one is budget, I just don't have the Lores
- Gurmag Angler replaced with Nim Devourer, I've always had a soft spot for the Nim but in this case it can recur itself and will still triggers Ferocious
- Lastly Traitor's Clutch instead of Fiery Temper and Call to the Netherworld, granting evasion and we want to discard it
I'm still tweaking things but maybe this gives you a few extra ideas, least I can do since cloning your deck saved me a bunch of typing :)
6 months ago
cdkime Thank you for reviewing and providing feedback, much appreciated.
As for your suggestions, I have considered some of those cards before and I might be testing them out. I have a few reasons why I suspect they don't fit this deck that well, the primary context is that I have a very deliberate tempo strategy with this deck.
Marrow-Gnawer is potentially super powerful with providing board presence and evation, but the problem is he requires tapping out and then waiting a turn to untap as well. Since this deck is built around keeping mana up for counterspells and other answers and then have the flexibility to do something else in opponents endstep if no response were needed, like making rats, digging with tasigur, digging with supreme will, activating nezumi or snapcasting something. You get the idea. I feel that Cryptic Command already fulfills the role of enabling that final big attack (tapping down the board) when needed while at the same time being able to solve other problems. And if you have a Pack Rat out it's super easy to make the needed 4-6 rats for lethal anyways, and if you don't have a Pack Rat Marrow Gnawer won't do very much. So I think he's better suited for a mono black rat deck but would be a potentially dead draw and win-more card in this one.
Swarmyard I will definitely try out. My worry is that we don't have enough use for the colorless mana and might end up being unable to cast Cryptic Command or make a rat. It would be really nice to have primarily for protecting Nezumi against graveyard decks. Pack Rat I find usually protects himself, but it's nice to have the option there as well. Maybe 1 or 2 copies.
Biting RainIt's a potential sideboard card, but it does kill every creature in our deck except 3+ Pack Rats and Tasigur. I'm thinking that something more universally powerful like Damnation would be a better choice against wide boards in this deck, and then just keep a creature in hand to recover. I Play it in my other madness deck so I know it can be very good, worth testing.
Call to the Netherworld: I can see crazy EOT Pack Rat plays discarding first a creature, then Call picking the creature up and so on. The problem is it's a potentially dead card in some situations, it's not a good card to draw in your opening hand for example, and can't pick up Snapcaster. It's also hard to see a good cut for it. Worth noting that Nezumi already provides a way to pick up creatures from the grave, and that Grave Scrabbler is a more expensive but similar effect that could pick up any creature while providing an extra body. Maybe Call is worth sideboarding in against uncounterable removal like Abrupt Decay and Supreme Verdict?
cdkime on Rat Circus
6 months ago
I greatly enjoy how quickly this deck spirals out of control. After playtesting it some, I came up with a couple suggestions:
Marrow-Gnawer seems like it could be a powerful card in this deck. In addition to providing evasion, it grants a bit of flexibility, allowing you to sacrifice a blocked/blocking rat, and instantly pump your other Pack Rats before they deal combat damage. While it may be a bit slow, given its five mana casting cost, I think it has the potential as a powerful finisher.
Swarmyard would give you some protection from your opponent's removal spells.
Biting Rain might make a good sideboard card against token decks, particularly given how easi it is to hit the 3/3 threshold with your own creatures.
Call to the Netherworld would allow you to return killed/discarded creatures for free.
As for potential cuts to make room for additional cards, that I am less sure about. In my playtesting, everything currently in the deck seemed to work well together, and every card provided valuable utility.
6 months ago
clayperce yeah, honestly the only reason I run the single Call to the Netherworld is because I've seen it on other builds, and like you, don't really know what I would replace it with. In the past I've actually used it a few times with Street Wraith to do double cycling. I don't want to add a 4th Cathartic Reunion.. but if you have suggestions that would be sweet.
6 months ago
Nice deck! I play a lot online and it keeps popping up ... and smashing me :-)