Beta Brackets Update Today
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on April 22, 2025, 12:14 p.m. by Tsukimi
Hey y'all, curious to see what people think about the Bracket changes and unbans announced today.
Honestly, it looks like more steps in the right direction to me. All of the new Game Changers seem like solid additions, especially happy to see Teferi's Protection and Deflecting Swat added to the list.
Any cards you were hoping to see unbanned that weren't? Any card that got unbanned that you are excited to use again? I know a few of my decks might appreciate a Braids, Cabal Minion and even Gifts Ungiven
hyalopterouslemur says... #3
The card that makes me happiest to see on the GC list is Necropotence. Why it wasn't on the list before, I don't know.
The unbanning of Coalition Victory makes me sad, though. Mostly because it'll just encourage more five-color goodstuff.
April 22, 2025 7:04 p.m.
purelycryptic says... #4
I'm putting Stars into my new draft for a Cthulhu themed deck! :)
April 22, 2025 8:12 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #5
hyalopterouslemur, I agree that I am not pleased with Coalition Victory being unbanned, because that card is much too easy to use, and I also am not pleased with Aura Shards and Seedborn Muse being added to the list of game changers, since I use those two cards in many of my decks, so those decks shall move to higher brackets, even without me changing then, at all, and I am very displeased with Braids, Cabal Minion being unbanned, since she originally was banned for a very good reason.
April 22, 2025 8:47 p.m.
I think Aura Shards and Seedborn Muse belong on the GC list, as fun as they are to play with.
I also wonder if Braids, Cabal Minion might not be so bad, but I'm looking forward to playtesting it.
April 22, 2025 9:14 p.m.
More on the banlist side of things, but I think Biorhythm could be made available. isn't known for clearing the board by itself, and is it that much more of a game ender than Craterhoof Behemoth (specifically called out as acceptable, not even a game changer) or Triumph of the Hordes?
April 23, 2025 3:27 a.m.
I think Coalition Victory will be rebanned Jan 1. I’m happy with the braids unban, because it means I can build a deck around giving my opponents Obeka, Splitter of Seconds with Assault Suit and making them throw away their board with braids.
April 23, 2025 10:13 a.m.
Bookrook you have the opportunity now to make a really funny Obeka Primer! Also agree about Coalition Victory, I think they are testing the waters but I don't think it will last. Or at least, I hope it won't.
April 23, 2025 10:27 a.m.
RiotRunner789 says... #10
When I was first getting into Commander, I bought Braids, Cabal Minion out of a binder with the plan to make her a commander. I later found out she was banned by my playgroup.
Not actually happy she is unbanned. I'm probably going to build her now but it's going to be degenerate. Braids, Sol Ring, Dark Ritual, Ophiomancer, et cetera. It's going to work great 85% of the time and anger people 100% of the time. I'll then shelf the deck and bring it out once a year. I know I'll initially try to build her weaker but the end result in a known.
Coalition victory also seems unnecessary. The other unbans seem fine. Sway of the Stars might make it into my suspend deck. Mostly glad to hear no more change for the rest of the year.
April 23, 2025 10:49 a.m.
Gifts Ungiven seems like it might be a mistake to me. It's basically tutoring for 4 cards with a 4-mana instant.
I agree that Coalition Victory is also probably a mistake. It just won't lead to fun games and I think it'll show up more than anyone would like.
I'm happy they didn't un-ban Prime Time. I think a lot of people clamoring for it to get un-banned were really underestimating its power level.
April 23, 2025 11:44 a.m.
hyalopterouslemur says... #12
DemonDragonJ: Yeah, my loathing of five-color goodstuff mostly comes from how this is supposed to be the color-restricted format: I have a Ghave, Guru of Spores deck, but if I want to make a Rith, the Awakener or Marath, Will of the Wild *f-etch* deck, I have to lose the black cards (and probably the entire Aristocrats theme). So, no more Grave Pact or Dictate of Erebos. No more Pitiless Plunderer. No more Diabolic Intent. No more Blood Artist or Bastion of Remembrance. I do gain red, though, so say hello to Purphoros, God of the Forge. Rhys the Redeemed or Nemata, Primeval Warden would be even more restricted, as token decks go.
My removal also suffers, since red removal is surprisingly bad in this format. (Seriously, I'd argue white has the best removal, followed closely by black. Green's a distant third, and red and blue are tied for fourth: Red has more removal, blue has better removal.)
And it happens between Oloro, Ageless Ascetic, Betor, Ancestor's Voice, Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim, Beledros Witherbloom, and Licia, Sanguine Tribune
too. All are lifegain, but only Oloro can use Absorb and Drogskol Reaver. Only Licia can use Lightning Helix and Searing Meditation. Only Betor can use Beledros Witherbloom. Ayli and Witherbloom are even more restricted, especially since Witherbloom can't use the color that's best at lifegain.
But that's the whole point. When I choose a Commander, I make a lot of choices regarding deck construction. I can't say "Cathars' Crusade would be good in my Animar, Soul of Elements deck." because, well, it wouldn't; it would be illegal. That forces me to pick, I don't know, Ivy Lane Denizen or Forgotten Ancient instead. Corpsejack Menace? You mean Branching Evolution? (Aside from the name, why is Corpsejack Menace anyway? I actually wouldn't mind if it were just because that's Simic's thing.) And so on down the line.
Five-color goodstuff opts to ignore all of this. And right now, there are more five-color decks in EDH than in Legacy.
Eh, I can always just hate them out with Primal Order.
That's my rant about how too much five-color goodstuff is bad for the game.
Anyway, I play Aura Shards and Seedborn Muse in a lot of decks too. Aura Shards is really oppressive in a token build, or even a reanimator build. Seedborn Muse is interesting because she's either overpowered (anything , token builds, Yeva, Nature's Herald) or just a fancy Village Bell-Ringer without the Splinter Twin combo. I have to go through my decks now and see which ones have four or more game changers.
April 23, 2025 12:51 p.m.
TheoryCrafter says... #13
Personally, if we're going to have a whole bracket system, we may as well just unban everything that isn't an ante, conspiracy or is racist and set a minimum bracket for specific cards. Such as all cards currently banned means you can only play it in Bracket five while a card like Teferi's Protection can only be played in perhaps(?) no lower than bracket 3.
With that said I don't think there was a bad call the whole announcement. I know Y'all aren't happy about Coalition Victory. However, it's a spell with a mana cost of 8 and every color except Green has at least one counter spell with a mana value of 2 or less that can handle it. Not to mention the countless spells that cost one black mana to force a discard and there's cards like Naturalize to destroy Dryad of the Ilysian Grove or Leyline of the Guildpact(which some players won't be able to afford purchasing, anyways) as soon as Coalition Victory is cast.
While I don't ever see myself building a deck around Braids, Cabal Minion I can definitely see someday putting her in the Juri, Master of the Revue Deck I am currently building.
Because Sway of the Stars is now unbanned, it's not that difficult to win a game of Commander with Battle of Wits in it. One just needs to activate Spawnsire of Ulamog's 2nd activated ability to put a lotta Eldrazi on the battlefield, target Battle of Wits with Oblivion Ring or Detention Sphere, then cast Sway of the Stars for the win. Provided you can find a playgroup willing to tolerate a wish board of 103 or more cards.
May you draw well.
April 26, 2025 10:34 p.m.
TheoryCrafter I can see a Bracket 6 that basically acts as the banlist/anything goes area, but some of the stuff on the banlist makes Dockside Extortionist and Jeweled Lotus look like Strike it Rich and Chromatic Star. Even in the rarefied airs of Bracket 5, what would happen?
Usual disclaimer that I don't cEDH at all, but something like Oloro + Lotus + Lurrus (even in the 99--tutors ahoy!), or Temur Tolarian Moxen 'n' Treasures into copy-spammed Tinker and Upheaval with a side of Fastbond, sounds eye-rendingly miserable to my Bracket-3-or-less-dwelling carcass.
April 26, 2025 11:29 p.m.
TheoryCrafter Dash Hopes doesn’t count. You could always win with battle of wits before by blinking Oracle of the Alpha.
April 27, 2025 12:17 a.m.
RiotRunner789 says... #16
Not a fan of the 'just counter' or 'have removal' argument. It assumes you have Mana left open. It assumes you didn't remove a threat on the turn before a player casts Coalition Victory.
Just about every other 'I win' card either gives you a full turn like Happily Ever After or lets you know it's coming like Approach of the Second Sun. If you used all your mana actually doing things on your turn, Coalition Victory burns you. It just creates a tax against non-five color decks. Now they have to assume if the WUBRG deck has 8 Mana, they can just win (which isn't that fun).
April 27, 2025 7:27 a.m.
hyalopterouslemur says... #17
I don't have any winning-related issues with Coalition Victory; I just don't like how WotC has embraced five-color goodstuff, which I view as unhealthy for the format. I would say it would be better as an enchantment with "at the beginning of your upkeep, if you control creatures of all five colors and all five basic land types, you win the game" but it's more part of the trend for five-color goodstuff, something WotC has had a habit of encouraging with easy-to-cast five-color legends in the past.
April 27, 2025 4:20 p.m.
TheoryCrafter says... #18
legendofa, considering the cEDH decks that can win in 2 or 3 turns, I don't see a significant change.
Bookrook Even if Dash Hopes didn't count, it doesn't change the fact that Coalition Victory can be dealt with. As for Oracle of the Alpha, thats a lot of blink effects for a card that isn't even available on paper. However, I do appreciate your creativity.
RiotRunner789, while I see your point, the problem I have with it is that it forgets that holding back a spell can happen whether or not the Coalition Victory is the spell you're anticipating. Not to mention, with the right copy spell and/or ability you can have the same ending the game issue with Biovisionary.
May 6, 2025 9:26 p.m.
Bookrook I almost wish you didn't show me this aha. Why would they ever make this a paper card?? Are you supposed to have the power 9 chilling or is WOTC expecting people to proxy at this point?
I know you don't have the answers but like damn gotta ask why.
Icbrgr says... #2
kinda reminding me of the banlist of pioneer changing often when it first came out... I dont think its perfect (likely never will) but on the hole I also think its really good steps in a right direction.
April 22, 2025 12:45 p.m.