Abaques says... #1

TypicalTimmy Yep, I've got all the decks in my profile plus a bunch that I haven't put there. I own everything in person and all 50 decks are double-sleeved (that was a ton of time). I don't have any proxies either. I don't update all my decks all the time. I've got about another 10 decks that I have plans on building, but I think I'm going to stop at 60.

I started playing in the late 90's before taking a break and getting back into Magic very casually during the Lorwyn block. Eventually I found Commander and I realized that I loved to build decks. I'm lucky enough in my career that I can afford to spend money on Magic.

September 3, 2021 12:34 p.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #2

50 decks?

May I ask, are they the ones on your profile? Do you own all of these in person?

September 3, 2021 2 a.m.

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jaymc1130 The conversation about Biorhythm being unbanned is entirely hypothetical. Only Worldfire was unbanned.

September 17, 2021 3:19 p.m.

TriusMalarky each card you listed requires a more from the board or your hand compared to Biorhythm. Yes they are all potential game winners but they all require you to do more or have already done more then Biorhythm to execute that win. There are degrees of difficulty and I think Biorhythm would be more of an easy-button compared to what you listed.

As for Commander being a ramp race, that's only part of the story. Card draw, synergy, politics, interactivity, flexibility and raw card power all play into winning a game of commander.

September 16, 2021 7:38 p.m.

TriusMalarky I'm going to strongly disagree with you on that. What you're implying would turn Commander into a ramp race. Every card that can win the game should require some type of positive or negative relationship with other cards in order to bring about that win. Otherwise why do we play the game?

September 16, 2021 3:11 p.m.

TypicalTimmy, I believe that there are degrees to game winning cards. I think the issue here is really the potential for out of nowhere wins where someone gets a bunch of mana and just wins by casting one card regardless of the rest of the boardstate.

I believe that both Worldfire, and to a slightly lighter degree, Biorhythm, can lead to those states. Worldfire doesn't really care about boardstate and Biorhythm is devastating to several deck archetypes.

You listed Omniscience as being more ban-worthy. I'd disagree in that Omniscience does require card draw to be effective. I have Omniscience in my Jodah deck and I've gotten it out on more then one occasion where it does very little because my hand is almost empty. It can also be interacted with on the field as opposed to requiring a counter-spell to stop.

Torment of Hailfire can certainly lead to some feel-bad losses, but I think its easier to end up in game states where Torment doesn't just end the game on the spot. Unlike Biorhythm it cares about all non-land permanents, making the number of decks that might have enough permanents to survive an X=8 scenario a lot higher. Lifegain decks might be able to just eat the loss. Again, there are just more states where an out of nowhere 10-mana Torment of Hailfire doesn't automatically win the game.

I do get what you're saying, I just think there are some shades of grey that do matter when people talk about some of these win conditions. As I've said before I could take or leave unbanning Worldfire or Biorhythm, but I do believe they are cards that are more likely to lead to un-fun games then most of the other 9-10 mana spells out there.

September 16, 2021 1:49 a.m.

SynergyBuild Hey, I'm not saying Worldfire won't lead to some un-fun games. Just that I believe it's easier to just randomly cast Biorhythm than Worldfire.

The scenario that you outlined requires more then just the 9 mana for Worldfire. You'd need at minimum 12 for Jeska. It's another hoop to jump through. Yes there are cards like Mana Geyser that can get a deck there quickly... but it's still another hoop.

With Biorhythm you need 8 mana and a creature on board. It's just a lower bar for when you can pull the trigger. I think if both cards were unbanned, that Biorhythm would lead to more feel bads then Worldfire, that's all.

Honestly both could be unbanned and I don't think it would majorly kill the format. Iona wasn't banned for a long, long time and most people just didn't play her*. I think the same thing will happen with Worldfire and if it were unbanned, Biorhythm. That doesn't mean they are cards that make the game fun for everyone either. I'm honestly okay either way on if they are banned or not. I know I won't play them unless it's in some kind of gimmick deck.

*Just noting that I did see Iona in play once in a 5-player game. And she got cloned twice.... eventually we all agreed to call that game a draw.

September 16, 2021 1:30 a.m.

I think Biorhythm would lead to more negative play experiences then Worldfire. Simply put it's more work to make Worldfire work compared to Biorhythm. Resolving Worldfire without the ability to win very quickly just doesn't make much sense. With Biorhythm a lot of decks could feel safer just rolling the dice and as TypicalTimmy said, that could mean a lot of decks would just fold.

If it were unbanned I don't think it would actually see all that much play and I think I could live with it, but I think I'd be happier if they just let it stay banned.

September 16, 2021 12:57 a.m.

I think Golos was a bad design and was not good overall for the format. As others have stated, being a colorless card that mana ramps/fixes while providing access to WUBRG and an activated ability that cheats things into play make it just generically good for any five-color deck. Commander would have been better without it being printed.

That being said I don't believe it should be banned. Golos decks were generally not oppressive. Many people used Golos to helm non-competitive but fun decks that he made more viable as a commander. Even the tuned good-stuff piles that were more cut-throat weren't oppressive like a tuned Urza or Korvold. I also think it's unfair to the many, many players who built Golos decks.

I do understand that some people do agree with the ban and I get the reasons why, especially if they had a more tuned Golos deck in their playgroup. In the end I think the community will adapt and move on. I hope that Wizards learns a lesson about the dangers of broadly powerful cards. I also hope that the RC learns how to better handle bans because I think they dropped the ball on communicating this one, regardless of how you feel about the ban.

September 14, 2021 10:02 p.m.

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