At the beginning of each player's draw step, if Howling Mine is untapped, that player draws an additional card.
|Have (2)||orzhov_is_relatively_okay819 , lizardwarrior|
Printings View all
|Commander 2016 (C16)||Rare|
|MTG: Commander (CMD)||Rare|
|2010 Core Set (M10)||Rare|
|Tenth Edition (10E)||Rare|
|Ninth Edition (9ED)||Rare|
|Ninth Edition Foreign Black Border (9EDFBB)||Rare|
|Eighth Edition (8ED)||Rare|
|Seventh Edition (7ED)||Rare|
|Classic Sixth Edition (6ED)||Rare|
|Fifth Edition (5ED)||Rare|
|Fourth Edition (4ED)||Rare|
|4th Edition Foreign Black Border (4EDFBB)||Rare|
|Revised Edition (3ED)||Rare|
|Revised Foreign Black Border (3EDFBB)||Rare|
|Unlimited Edition (2ED)||Rare|
|Collector's Edition (CED)||Rare|
|International Collector's Edition (CEI)||Rare|
|Limited Edition Beta (LEB)||Rare|
|Limited Edition Alpha (LEA)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Howling Mine occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.03%
Howling Mine Discussion
1 week ago
jeacaveo To specifically answer you, I play weekly in a very competitive meta at my LGS in paper. I play against Consultation Hulk Najeela, Gitfrog, TnT Flash Hulk (now Fish Hulk), Brago Stax, Yisan, Doomsday Breya, and all kinds of other stuff. I am aware of the format, and the meta. I have played Azami and Naru Meha and Baral as mono blue decks, no I don't have lists for them on tappedout. Either way, I don't really care if you gatekeep me from "competitive" as long as you respond to my critiques or link cards. Which you didn't. So much along chump, your comment was worthless too.
AlwaysSleepy This list hasn't been updated for 5 months. You can speak about how the meta has changed with the coming of Oracle and how this deck brilliantly handles it, but that doesn't really mean anything to this list because it hasn't been updated. If it handles Oracle, it is by no intentional omission or addition from the brewers. I know you guys absolutely love to claim these brewers are 10/10 never before seen genius brewers, but ayyy lmao I'm going to need you guys to reel it in. This is what I mean when I talk about idol worship and people being mindless. This list is 5 months old. It wasn't good then. It still isn't good now. Defending this to your last breath is a weird hill to die on mate.
Basalt + Rings being considered unplayable is certainly understandable. Its in across two cards with another to start the combo for total. Grim + Power artifact is a half that at . Neither of the combos have an outlet themselves, and both of them produce colorless mana. I'm not arguing that the rings combo is more efficient, it definitely isn't. I'm arguing that Power Artifact is a 100% dead draw outside the combo and Rings gives better value outside the combo. I've playtested this deck. Numerous times. It runs out of gas frequently and struggles assembling and executing the combo. Rings + Basalt is easier to find, easier to recur, and Rings has much more incidental value and can form loops for winning with other cards already slotted, like Codex Shredder. PA is only getting tutored off two cards, Intuition and Muddle the Mixture. Rings is getting tutored off MANY more cards. Even if the speed is slower, the availability and utility is much higher. From the availability perspective, I think it is a much more valuable include. This deck struggles to assemble a win in a timely manner, so make the pieces more fetchable. Even if you disagree with Basalt + Rings, Grim + PA is definitely a weak combo in that PA is absolutely useless without Grim, and you get 2-for-1'd by artifact removal in response to casting PA. Some of the mana cost is negated with Urza too, but more importantly, you're more likely to have excess mana from other artifacts (if you run more than 17 ahahahaha) which helps to power the combo and sustain uses for value. Yes the value from Rings costs a lot, but wow! Urza makes mana! Maybe, if we combine the mana from other artifacts we're already playing, and then use that to pay for Rings activations, we can get ahead!
My biggest reason for including Rings + Basalt was because this deck is just slow as fuck. I understand it can't race against decks with Black, but honestly this $4000 durdle pile can't race at all. Having your game plan be "Untap, upkeep, draw, and that will be a pass from me" is unbelievably stupid. Compare to a deck like Rashmi or Baral, which can actually accrue value from this style of play. When given space, all this deck does is. . . uh . . . hold up mana for counterspells.
Honestly the biggest problem with Workshop is a bad topdeck late game. P.S. this card also makes more sense with more artifacts. I'm not advocating for adding it in this list without adding other cards.
Howling Mine - Lets look. If Urza is in it draws you a card. If Urza is out it draws you a card. Seems like it still works without Urza.
Speaking about the failure mode though, Static Orb may wreck your game worse than 3 draw triggers. If you have Urza get removed while trying to protect, you're most likely tapped out. Not having the mana to interact with the Flash is going to be worse than giving the Flash player 1 more card. Similarly, other opponents are going to have mana difficulties with either of the Orbs to interact with the Flash Hulk player too. This is pretty well known, and the card is still ran. If you think that a colorless Dark Confidant + Mox Sapphire stapled to it with the failure of symmetry instead of asymmetry isn't worth running, we have nothing more to discuss on the matter.
I agree that Narset's Reversal is an over slotted card and should be used mostly in mono color. I think its popularity is because it serves as a Copy Artifact outlet with Dramatic Reversal, as it does here.
About Urza and spinning the wheel, its reusable card draw + play the spell. It doesn't replace your regular card draw, and yes having high counterspell density does cause more bricks from activations. The rest of your argument for this section talks about the "meta and how you can't be agnostic of it". Yeah dude, once again, this deck hasn't been updated in 5 months. Tell that to the brewers.
BUT PITHING NEEDLE DOESNT SEE PLAY SHAPER TOLD ME SO
Yeah dude, of the 400 cards you see in a pod, you only have control over 100. If your maximum power deck only works against maximum power decks, is it really a maximum power deck? Sure, in theory you shouldn't account for Needle, but
- This game being played in paper with real costs to cards means that the vast majority of players do not have 100% access to the cards they should slot, which means they put another card in that slot
- The vast majority of players are not aware of the competitive meta or lists. Those who are enfranchised with knowledge and access most likely are aware of how Needle performs in other formats and consider it here as well.
- A savvy player who loses to a deck that can be shut off by a single card may slot that card when they expect to see the deck again. The meta evolves as players realize how vulnerable this deck is to a 1 cmc card that literally any deck can slot
- Needle variants see play, and players without large card pools may slot more of the same effect. Players may also slot the needle in place of Totem or Linvala, especially if they are Modern players who already have the Needle but not a Totem.
Imagine someone running Kiki combo being shut off by someone's random Ghostly Prison. Sure, that card shouldn't be run in optimized lists, but not being able to handle permanents on the board speaks to bad building. How this deck fares against Needle effects is the same.
As far as blind followers and me shitting on 'em, look at the replies to my posts mate. We have
- Tepid regurgitation post from a fan restating the primer
- 0 decks 1 post guy calling me a fucktard but saying I might be onto something
- You, saying this deck is golden against Fish when it hasn't been updated since 5 months before Fish hit the scene
- Dominican bro saying I've obviously never played competitive because ??? No reason given
- Still no one can explain why this deck has a 90% match to CVT or why it runs only 5 pieces of removal
Lazy, phoned-in deck from 4 brewers who just couldn't be bothered. If this opinion makes you mad, or makes you need to @ me, its because you're basing it off the merit of the names associated with it instead of the cards listed inside it. You can justify it as handling Fish meta, but the list hasn't been updated. Y'all really drink the Kool-Aid, and you drink it all.
2 weeks ago
I'm not sure how my comment may be construed to be idol worship lol. I'm providing an additional context.
So, for some of the card choices touched on, I think we have differing evaluations and overall opinions on cards. I'll just share for the record my quick evals for context:
I think Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth is just unplayable. I think both cards alone are not strong enough for play. I don't think Urza fixes them either. I get your point, Urza makes mana, and there's synergy. It shouldn't justify weak card choices. Urza in this case shaves off a small 1 mana from the investment for this pricy combo. From a cEDH perspective, regardless of Urza's improvement, it's unacceptable. Rings as value is undoubtedly too slow for the current meta.
I find Mishra's Workshop weakly tenable at best in EDH. You have to skew too much to make it a reasonable land, versus a ritual effect. By the time Workshop is consistently a land, I find, the deck has been weakened more than otherwise picking stronger cards.
The difference between Howling Mine and Winter Orb and crew (3ball included) is that the latter actually help you if untapped should Urza be gone. Mine will actively hurt you. Yes you can always try and time Urza to make it safer. Though realistically, people understand Urza is a major threat, and mini-combos with failure modes are not an acceptable power level for cEDH currently. I hold all cards to this metric. Narset's Reversal is another example I generally avoid playing unless specifically forced (like, in mono U). With Oracle Hulk being the prime metagame singularity, cards with failure modes in decks being taxed to interact is incorrect.
If you feel safe cutting some countermagic for artifacts, it's understandable as a deck building decision. Again though, I ask the question of really how much are you rushing Urza and just spinning the wheel that the issue with interaction density being higher somehow detracts overall. I don't think Urza can be built agnostic of the current meta. If you think it can be done leaner, sure, go ahead. But that's starting from behind as Urza doesn't win the race war. I'm not convinced this strategy is completely sound.
Look man, the issue isn't card choices, or who made the list, or what an opinion on cards is. It's that the changes in deck building decisions somehow led to this discussion on people being stupid sheep without any capacity to think. If someone disagrees with you, that shouldn't disqualify them as blind followers. If it does, the discourse isn't in good faith.
Theory arguments should stand alone and don't have to be backed by anything else.
2 weeks ago
AlwaysSleepy If you can't understand why I would point out when a 0 decks 1 post account logs in after two years to call me a fucktard, then there isn't much more to discuss on that point.
As far as whether or not you suck, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. I enjoy it when people with less or more experience post, as long as its discussing cards or linking new ones.
As far as building Urza midrange versus artifact focused, yes I understand why the choices are made. This just keeps coming back to some basic facts though. The commander makes mana from artifacts, and then uses lots of mana to get free spells. Running 12 counterspells is going to mess with Urza activations. In a vacuum, a counterspell is going to be better than a trinisphere, but do you know what card the deck always has access to, every single game, from turn 1? Urza! What does Urza do? Give mana from artifacts, and use mana to get free spells. Do you know what free spells are unfortunate to get from Urza activations? Counterspells!
To respond to your card comments
Legacy's Allure - I'm glad we are in agreement that this card should go.
Homeward Path - This card is very common as tech in Selvala and Yisan decks. Gilded Drake is a very popular card that can go into most competitive decks with blue as a piece of removal. Both Yisan and Selvala are extremely commander dependent while being mono colored, with the Crop Rotation already there in many builds. Just because the card is not run in the Shaper list does not mean the card does not see play, it is tech that shows up. Since the card makes those decks cry big fat tears when it is resolved, it goes in. Which brings us to
Pithing Needle and friends. There are enough of these effects and they are so rancid for this deck that you must be aware of them when you build. It is simply asinine to ignore how dire this card resolving is for this deck. The bigger problem with these types of cards is that this deck runs so little removal and places all emphasis on counterspells. As far as Needle appearing or not, just because it doesn't show up in a big name brewer list doesn't mean the card isn't played. I have seen many competitive commander decks slot this card. It is a strong hate card against many commanders, the card that everyone always has access to (if they run Homeward Path lol). This list crumples to turn 1 Pithing Needle and it serves as proof of what the card can do. 1 mana and 1 card to lock out a player from winning is significantly better than a counterspell. The card is mana denial against uncracked fetches (they can't crack in response to the naming), it hoses entire commanders, its great against the random planeswalkers that show up, its amazing against the random Animatou deck that showed up, it shuts off so many infinite combos and is such a strong answer that can go in any deck. P.S. it could even go into an Urza build
Aether Spellbomb - My thoughts exactly. Goes in for Allure
Recurring Insight - I can believe that anyone who has resolved it has won. There are caveats to that statement though. You're giving up big opportunity cost as you could have another card in that slot doing something else before 6 mana. It is also hard to protect it resolving, because it costs 6 mana. Let me use an analogy to make one last point. Just because I won by tutoring from Diabolic Tutor does not mean that Demonic Tutor is the same. You can run sub-optimal cards that lead to winning, that category would most likely encompass 99+% of decks made.
Mishra's Workshop - This card once again used to show flaws in deckbuilding. The commander focuses on artifacts. This deck doesn't have an artifact density high enough to run Workshop and put it to use. It runs 19 artifacts. This card and the commander make big mana for or from artifacts. After the lands, there are 68 slots. 19 are artifacts. This is another overall design flaw rather than weakness between the card and the commander.
Howling Mine - I agree that this card has risk associated with playing it. This is why timing is crucial. If played when Urza is on the board, you are able to advance meaningfully with an extra and card every turn for and 1 card. Howling Mine isn't great in a vacuum, but once again it goes really well with that one card we always have access to. Even if later Urza is removed, we got advantage from it first and we got it earlier. Giving all your opponents 1 extra card (so 3 total) on turn 5 is negated by getting an extra card for yourself on turn 3 and 4. Getting access to the cards earlier for us is worthwhile even if on a later turn our opponents are collectively getting 3 cards to our 3 cards. Timing is just required to make this card effective. I find it hilarious that this list realizes the benefit in running Winter Orb and Static Orb but glances over the same synergy with Howling Mine. Do you see how those cards also hurt you without your commander?
Trinisphere - Its totally not cut, just not in the list. The authors can put flowery words next to it but this card should be an auto include. Not having it here makes me question why.
Ensnaring Bridge - Not the best possible include but worth a consider if the deck is more artifact centric. Can hose down Tymna and also some win cons. Urza plays well with a small hand and a fatty board.
As far as "You're just going to get flashed on" I'm not advocating for eliminating counterspells completely. It could easily go down to 8 and you will still see counters in your opener. The forgiving mulligan rules of multiplayer with the added new London Mulligan makes it easy to go back for one if you see yourself sitting across from TnT.
Expedition Map - Leads to Tabernacle and leads to Inventor's Fair. You can use to go to Academy Ruins to plop back on top to continue to toolbox lands. Its a tutor in a relevant type that can become an engine in games where you have more space. In more artifact centric builds you can extend more into non-basic lands as fetch targets, because you will need less blue for counterspells and 6 mana draw spells and Legacy's Allure.
Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth is a usable combo in certain contexts. Gonna keep going back to this idea that we always have Urza in the command zone as being important to the development of the deck. Urza gives us A LOT OF MANA. Rings has a great effect, but needs A LOT OF MANA. See where I'm going here? When we get Rings activations onto fetches, we are double thinning and ramping ourselves, but we're also priming the deck for BETTER URZA ACTIVATIONS. You also get infinite mana loops with Codex Shredder and any card that goes to GY like a spell. Basalt is definitely a downgrade from Grim, but Rings is such an upgrade from Power Artifact for usefulness outside combo and mana isn't as much of an issue in Urza so I think its worthwhile.
As far as the rest of what you wrote, yeah nice dude this is a $4000 durdle list and you are out here defending it. These brewers are so isolated in their own meta they make absurd card choices and overall deckbuilding decisions. Yeah this list is trash dude, and my comments about people being sheep are funnier with every reply. Why are you out here schilling for this list? Idol worship or idle time?
2 weeks ago
alright well sure why not ill take a stab but i suck at magic and also didnt make this list so if that discounts me you can stop reading now, though since it appears to matter, yes this is my main account
General comment about the state of the format, and how it's changed a lot since Oracle. Urza isn't a considerably quick deck, the nature of mono blue limits its options speedwise, and while the card quality blue has is on average, very high, mono blue normally is not as consistently fast as decks with black - though with certain draws it can be.
This puts Urza in a weird spot deck building wise. Urza wants to play to the board and develop its mana and board state. But Urza is ultimately a value card overall, which is even reflected outside of EDH as most Urza decks across formats are some mixture of midrange with a combo finish. Does not mean EDH must do the same but such a strategy has legs.
Okay so now EDH context. Urza isn't the fastest deck at the table. Especially with Oracle Hulk being the strongest deck now - this puts stress on Urza to hold up interaction consistently as opposed to develop mana for a few turns and attempt to combo.
Some of the artifacts can do both, some cannot. My point is that just vomiting artifacts and goldfishing a few turns doesn't work in EDH unless you are the Flash deck. Urza has to accommodate that. Thus, a midrage plan is explored.
Okay specific cards:
Legacy's Allure - I've not been big on it. Also it looks weaker now cause like, it's not as playable any more. It was Hulk tech cause it worked vs. older Hulk piles. It's not effective any more into Hulk, and is a very reasonable cut.
Homeward Path effects - I'll be honest I've never seen this played in a cEDH deck. The effect is so narrow for a poor manabase addition. It's severe deckbuilding cost to run this single card for what is, 1 or 2 effects max across a format. Anyone running this for just Drake is probably focusing on too small a margin.
Pithing Needle effects - Similar, I don't think it's necessary to skew a deck so harshly for a single card. Needle is rare, Revoker is more common. Totem would be the real issue to worry about. It's completely fine to tech more against it if you see it. But teching or skewing for specific effects not commonly played isn't a good idea.
Aether Spellbomb - Sure, I like it too. I see it in place of Allure with Oracle Hulk.
Recurring Insight - I don't think anyone who resolved this card has lost. It's a win-con itself. If you want to write this argument off, I don't think I can say much more.
Mishra's Workshop - Most EDH decks don't run enough artifacts for this. By the time you are your card quality is lower than it could be. I cannot say I've seen any EDH deck run an adequate density for this to not be a random ritual and then it's done. You need to skew heavily into artifact permanents, but then, see the original Urza gameplan argument.
Howling Mine - This card is actually dangerous if Urza is removed. Not a fan.
Trinisphere - It's amazing. In fact, it's so good, the authors literally said it's really good and you can run it. It's not cut.
Ensnaring Bridge - Mono blue is not a terribly inspiring Bridge deck considering there are so many good blue cards to run. But yes, it's playable in Urza.
Spinning Urza is strong, but arguing that counterspells make it miss and that card draw isn't good with it isn't understanding where Urza stands as a deck in the format. You probably aren't going to be able to sit and spin the wheel much in the current EDH climate. Or at least, not without getting Flashed on.
Expedition Map - It's fine. Not winning awards for speed, but it's an extra copy of a land.
Basalt + Rings has not been playable in cEDH for a very long time, and Urza doesn't change that. There is not an excuse to play poor quality cards for a moderate upside.
Urza isn't an artifact goldfish deck in EDH - or at least in the max power environment, it just can't afford to be any more. That's what many of these card choices have as context. If you have some different opinions sure. Doesn't make the entire list trash.
I find your aggressive comments on calling everyone stupid followers comical lmao. Like, come on that rhetoric is unnecessary. If you want to make a point, it should stand on its own by its actual soundness. Don't need to shit on literally everyone and then tell people to suck it up and put on "big boy pants" and give you a pass to engage in needlessly aggressive discourse.
but whatever i suck at mtg. its my real account tho, i used it like 2 days ago
3 weeks ago
Servbot40 come on buddy, lets read for comprehension next time. Everything I'm about to post is already ^ up there.
- Urza gives mana, taps, and free casts. The mana comes from artifacts. Running more artifacts over big flashy draw spells improves board state while still allowing you to accrue card advantage later. Running this as draw-go instead of artifact stax means you're going to be spending much more time reacting to the board than advancing your own game plan, and you will have to devote further slots to card draw to make up for 1-for-1 trades in a 1v1v1v1 format. The entire focus of this build basically ignores the benefits of running Urza as the commander. It is a weak CVT with some extremely minor swaps, and the minor uptick in card quality is negated by running cards like Recurring Insight.
- Claiming that Dramatic Scepter is less reliant than Chain + Teferi is silly when the outlet for Dramatic scepter is STILL the commander. It requires fetching two pieces + rocks, instead of fetching one piece + rocks. This list tries so hard to be able to function without the commander but is still locked out by turn 1 Pithing Needle naming Urza. I understand the intentions of wanting higher resilience and saving slots, but the philosophy and the application simply do not match here. The back up outlets require even more pieces to assemble, and are hard to tutor. Part of the reason this deck so desperately needs card draw is because it is poorly built and doesn't have good tutor outs or good topdecks. It requires lots of digging to find piece A and then Piece B, whereas CVT simply needs to find piece A and cast the commander.
- As far as gas goes, any artifact slotted over any cantrip over 2 CMC in cost is going to improve efficiency and also help with card advantage. Has anyone even read what the commander does? You realize you can pay outside of having infinite mana right? Running more artifacts = more mana = more activations. 17 Artifacts in an Urza list is bizarre. The philosophy about inclusions and exclusions is viewing Urza as your generic carddraw.dec commander. He isn't.
- Believing there is only a small pool of cEDH cards that are viable is why we have an Urza list with 90% match to CVT list. Once again, this deck should have some extremely easy includes with Howling Mine Expedition Map Trinisphere and Ensnaring Bridge, and those are just off the top of my head. It is stifling to the development of decks to be so obtuse as to how different commanders allow different card choices based upon what the commander does. No one is questioning slotting Rhystic Study or similar. Expensive draw spells and the focus on policing the table via counterspells are whats being focused on. Its a losing strategy as Urza doesn't provide the kind of card advantage needed to control the board with counterspells. His ability relies on PERMANENTS IN PLAY to put more GET FREE CASTS. Every additional counterspell is another brick from Urza actives, and slotting more draw spells actually loses mid game value instead of raising it, while also losing early game value.
Once again, I know this community believes these brewers are infallible, but this list is a joke. It makes intentionally sub-par card selections because "Urza might be unavailable" and then relies almost exclusively on Urza activations to assemble the win. It runs almost no problem solving cards. It ignores artifacts in an artifact centered commander to run high density of expensive instants and sorceries. It doesn't win fast, it doesn't win reliably, and if its shut off it has limited answers for solving problems. The answers it does have are temporary, and involve 2-for-1'ing yourself with a bounce THEN a counter to solve problems, or passing multiple turns. This is not a good deck, and the people worshiping it are drinking the Kool-Aid, so to speak.
3 weeks ago
You clowns slapped a new commander on top of CVT and called it a day. I know that these authors are treated as if they walk on water around these parts, but at a certain point this is just getting ridiculous. Compare the lists between Chain Veil Teferi and this one. Do you really think the two commanders are that similar? There are probably less than 10 cards of difference between these lists. Do you really believe that a PW commander and an artifact centric commander should have a 90% overlap in their lists?
You guys seriously have to stop slotting Legacy's Allure . Its a slow meme card that only performs if its in your opening 7. It is a complete dead draw later in the game. It doesn't advance your own position. Its relevance on the board turn 3 and 4 depends largely on your position in the turn rotation. The card type makes it the worst for interactions in your own deck. It isn't guaranteed to land against important creatures, because it is based on Power. It crumples to creature buffs while its on the stack. This is a pet card, and I'm extremely tired of seeing it pop up in lists because some noob saw it here first. Aether Spellbomb outperforms this immensely in an Urza list, especially since this particular list runs out of gas and struggles with card draw. Spellbomb also can activate itself via tap when Urza is out. Spellbomb also adds further resilience in this deck by not relying on creature stealing effects, which can be negated via Homeward Path . Having this AND drake shut off by a card that can be grabbed by Crop Rotation is poor deck building. Especially consider that this deck runs ALMOST NO WAYS to handle resolved threats, but more on that later.
Recurring Insight is another pet card inclusion. Its a dead card in your hand until turn 4 or 5, dependent on opponents resources for functionality, and is sorcery speed. Slotting this card while slotting other big 4, 5, and 6 cmc spells like Fact or Fiction Time Spiral Future Sight and Tezzeret means you are going to have far more hands that require mulligans due to having multiple of these cards in hand. Insight also proves to be garbage when playing against any decks that run handstax effects, Oppression Necrogen Mists Bottomless Pit Mindslicer Sire Of Insanity and more.
I find it telling you do not run Mishra's Workshop . The artifact density in this deck is far too low for an Urza deck. Its also why it has problems with gas later. If you had proper artifact support and leaned heavier into stax pieces, you could activate Urza casually for card advantage while still advancing board position. Workshop lets you hit the board with extreme speed and build a presence. Unfortunately, there is nothing for Workshop to ramp to, because the authors are so absurdly worried about not being able to protect Urza while holding 12 counterspells. Pro tip: Your list would actually gain resilience from slotting greater synergy between the 99 and the commander, as well as adding ways outside of the commander to access large amounts of mana.
Speaking of the commander, and returning to removal, this deck folds to a resolved Pithing Needle Phyrexian Revoker Sorcerous Spyglass Cursed Totem or Linvala, Keeper of Silence . The lack of layering and the lack of permanent removal mean if any of these permanents hit the table naming Urza, this deck might as well as scoop. The tutors you do run lead mostly to artifacts, and there aren't slotted artifacts that can handle this problem. This deck can answer problems in one of four cards outside counterspells, namely Gilded Drake (good) Legacy's Allure (bad) Chain of Vapor (good but temporary) and Cyclonic Rift (also good but temporary). There is a single card that can tutor into these, Mystical Tutor . Seriously hope you're holding one of 5 cards in your 99 while piloting, or else you're going to look like a joke when turn 1 Needle shuts off your entire gameplan. Your combo outside of Urza is tedious to assemble, and you're simply not going to be able to outrace real combo decks.
The decision not to include Rings + Monolith is silly. Especially when you're having gas problems, adding in additional A + B pieces and layering with other pieces increases resilience and will allow you to, you know, win faster. You'll have more dead opening hands, but if you cut out the garbage like Recurring Insight your overall starting hand strength will raise. Rings is an especially good piece, as it allows complete combo tutor off Muddle, and allows value generation from fetches and various effects like Inventors' Fair . Also consider Rings + Monolith as a combo versus Grim + Power Artifact. Rings has MUCH better usage than Power Artifact outside the combo, and the speed benefit from Grim is marginal compared to Basalt.
Speaking of Fair, it also shocks me that Expedition Map is not in this list. Map -> Fair -> Scepter is a line kids, and having pieces that fetch into the line means greater resilience and layering. Map also has value in fetching Tabernacle against Tymna decks, since this list runs pretty much 0 other answers to Tymna.
This deck is missing some artifacts that should be shoe-ins. Howling Mine is a no brainer. Even if Urza isn't on the field the entire game, receiving 7 cards during the game while giving 2 to your opponents is still beneficial to the pilot. Ensnaring Bridge should also be a no brainer. Slow beats from Pod decks, and stop Tymna, and shut off some infinite creature swinging combos. Trinisphere is another no brainer. It is such a massive slowdown piece. It doesn't matter if you decide to turn it off for a rotation. The pilot gets the decision of when to turn it off, not the opponents. I should not have to explain the benefit here. Even turning it off, the pilot still has the choice between stax effect or mana every time they use it. Even if its turned off on turn 5, if it delayed a turn 4 spell to turn 5 when its turned off it has done significant work.
This is without a doubt the most uninspired and phoned-in list I've seen attached to your names sickrobot ShaperSavant Lerker LabManiac_Sigi. Congratulations on building a $4000 turn 9 combo durdle machine, would give this a downvote if I could.
1 month ago
Mirko Vosk isn’t all that great unless he can connect with the opponent. You’ll do more mill with your walls than you will with him. Replace him with Avatar of Woe
Sire of Stagnation isn’t really on theme here, and is expensive. You’re better off with Lord of the Void or Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger if you’re looking for an impactful creature, but I’d probably choose Geth, Lord of the Vault or Oona, Queen of the Fae since they’re more on flavor and are good mana sinks if needed.
You have very little spot removal, Hero's Downfall , Doomblade etc, so be careful there. Also, Black has access to Plague Wind In Garruk's Wake and even Mutilate , and you definitely should be running Cyclonic Rift over Aether Gale . Board wipes are important, and you’ll have the largest toughness to survive those “all creatures get -x/-x” effects, so make use of them - Toxic Deluge would probably be the absolute best.
Don’t forget about Laboratory Maniac , because you can mill yourself.
All those cards that mill opponents when you draw a card are taking away from other cards you need unless you’re drawing a ton of cards in a turn. Notion Thief and Teferi's Puzzle Box is the absolute best combo for dimir (imho) and pairs well with those cards, but a lack of Howling Mine like effects makes these cards less relevant to the mill from your walls. Memory Erosion will just do you more work.
Tutoring is important if you’re running combo, so don’t forget Diabolic Tutor or other expensive ones if you feel like buying them.
Biggest thing is just remember you’re trying to mill a billion at a time, not little bits here and there. If a card isn’t milling a ton, replace it with something else that’s more impactful. Combo pieces are nice, but without tutoring they’re unreliable.
1 month ago
So, if you want to mill or make your opponent draw out their deck, some cards that are going to help you get there are as follows:
Use Pili-Pala and Grand Architect to create infinite mana and then cast Archeomancer and Mercurial Pretender to blink Archeomancer to pull those instant and sorcery cards back from the graveyard to continue to force your opponent to draw out their deck.
As a back up, get rid of all the jank in the deck and throw in about 20 Persistent Petitioners with Thrumming Stone , and all the tribal stuff like Coat of Arms , Stoneforge Masterwork , Adaptive Automaton , and Vanquisher's Banner . You can either use the petitioners to mill out opponents or you can just swing them. Nobody will expect that. Hell, throw in Archetype of Imagination for good fun.