Mill three cards, then you may return a creature card from your graveyard to your hand. (To mill a card, put the top card of your library into your graveyard.)
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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Corpse Churn Discussion
3 days ago
17 lands is crazy low for pretty much any deck. Burn runs ~18 usually, and most their deck is 1cmc. Having any 3 or 4 drops your wanting to realistically cast should put you at 22 lands minimum. Keep in mind a bunch of your cards are fairly mana hungry even after they’re down, with morph and/or level-up costs.
Ultimate Price feels like a bad card, when you could be running more copies of Abrupt Decay and Assassin's Trophy . Nameless Inversion also seems bad, but I do get why you’re running that (i just don’t think the payoff is worth it).
I don’t see any practical reason for you to be running Corpse Churn . You don’t really fill the yard much and you’re creatures aren’t really worth reviving.
Duress is a really concerning card for hand disruption, because it can just auto-suck in a lot of matchups. I’d be tempted to leave it just in the sideboard, if your budget can’t afford the better hand disruption cards.
imo, ditch Sign in Blood . It costs you a turn and oftentimes will make your board position worse, not better.
4 months ago
Surprised not to see Murderous Rider in the list, that card is a pretty decent utility zombie! If you're leaning into the self mill thing, I've been on the painful receiving end of an early game Egon, God of Death Flip. Also the flip side of Jorn, God of Winter Flip is really useful with snow permeants.
For recursion, Corpse Churn and Call of the Death-Dweller are both really good ways to get back your zombies. Lurrus of the Dream-Den is another often overlooked source of recursion, though not a zombie. It does give you a more consistent grindy end game though when paired with Priest of the Haunted Edge and an early Liliana's Steward .
1 year ago
Isn't this backwards of how these leagues normally work? I thought the winner is the only one that doesn't get the budget bump, so the most powerful deck doesn't snowball.
Anyway, Mindwrack Harpy is the most pushed intro deck card I've ever seen. That's my first add.
I also like putting in more creatures with ETB effects. It's kind of awkward that you'll want to tap mana dorks for Hogaak. Glowspore Shaman, Golgari Thug, Crow of Dark Tidings, Gamekeeper, and Mire Triton can all help get Hogaak out by turn 3 if you have a good turn 1 play.
There are a lot of good gold cards in BG graeyard stuff, too: If you have anyone that's relying on indestructibility, Drown in Filth is a good budget option to feed your graveyard. If you're built around Hogaak, I'd think it should regularly be a hard removal spell with upside. Nyx Weaver is just a great card in any graveyard deck, and cheap, too. Jarad's Orders is a good double-tutor. Underrealm Lich is worth the $2, in my opinion. I would also ask yourself whether Eternal Witness is $3.50 better than Acolyte of Affliction/Golgari Findbroker/Treasured Find. Storrev, Devkarin Lich didn't get much fanfare, but the power and price tag are there.
Animist's Awakening is good value at just over $1. World Shaper and Splendid Reclamation are a little more expensive, but higher impact than other $4-5 cards I see in the list. Lower on the ramp ladder, note that Harrow and Springbloom Druid put a land in the yard. Funeral Rites isn't a bad draw spell for this deck. Same for Winding Way, Gather the Pack and Relentless Pursuit. Syphon Mind doesn't have much to do with the theme, but I start with it in most of my black value decks. Dark Deal could be very good, especially if your draw power is maximized and you can use your yard as a second hand. Greenwarden of Murasa is just a powerful card. Same for Phyrexian Delver.
Some other general budget cards for considering: Ransack the Lab, Corpse Churn, Dead Reckoning, Grapple with the Past, Hatchery Spider, Millikin, Mindwrack Demon, Once and Future, Splinterfright, The Mending of Dominaria, Skullwinder, Blood for Bones, and Vigor Mortis.
1 year ago
king-saproling Thanks for your feedback! I really like the idea of adding Slaughter in (that buyback would make it a great constant) as well as Black Market , Corpse Churn (in case Ghast gets nixed early on and I need the mana), and definitely Deserted Temple !
I looked over the others and some of them focus more on graveyard recursion of creatures in my own field (which I don't have that many). I do like the ones that pull from others' graveyards, but I'm wondering if it is better to keep Rise of the Dark Realms at 9 cmc in there versus Grave Betrayal at 7 cmc and an instant +1/+1 counter upgrade. Do you have any thoughts on that?
I'd like to try and keep this more of a budget build and have 86'd some of the crazy cards in it like Mana Crypt and such.
That Imps' Taunt is interesting, but I don't think I would need that kind of controlling feature atm. Maybe I'm wrong though! The MTG gods will tell all when I need it and wish I had it ;)
Updated the lists and brought the price down below $400. I also think it is interesting how it shows the mana curve for these cards. Many of the effects of the 4cmcs can be replaced with paying life or are less just from being a mono black deck.
1 year ago
Slaughter could be interesting since it not only triggers Toshiro, but it has buyback so you can recur it indefinitely (even if you cast it using Toshiro's ability). Imps' Taunt works in a similar way and is an interesting form of disruption for mono-black.
You might also like these: Locket of Yesterdays , Sangromancer , Revel in Riches , Black Market , K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth , Spoils of Blood , Grave Betrayal , Fated Return , Corpse Churn , Wretched Confluence , Aphotic Wisps , Cremate , Dark Dabbling , Deserted Temple
1 year ago
2 years ago
Satyr Wayfinder instead of Corpse Churn to go one bigger in the graveyard and give yourself a fighting chance to eventually get to 9 mana if everything goes poorly, also it's cheap enough to pay for with izareth if she's ever going to payoff
2 years ago
@Ripwater: Welcome to the dark side! I'm humbled that my list inspired you to actually build the deck. She is very hard to properly disrupt and that's why I love her so much. I'll answer your questions as best I can and hope that it helps! If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask here or in a pm.
- Dealing with stuff getting exiled isn't generally a problem, except for mass graveyard hate like Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void. Sacrifice outlets can save any creature from targeted exile effects or even something like Merciless Eviction. At first I tried playing lots of cards to counter these kinds of cards, but in time I realized that just playing conservatively until you can find windows to take big turns is much better than having slots dedicated to reacting to being on the back foot. I've also learned that even having key pieces of the combo exiled or a huge chunk of value creatures getting removed isn't necessarily game over. The deck has a lot of built in resiliency and redundancy, so if a RiP hits a few value creatures, don't be afraid to blow it up and keep chugging along. However, if you are running into these types of effects a lot, and you need to be proactive about it, there are a few cards I've tested to help mitigate the damage done.
Loaming Shaman can help at sorcery speed if you anticipate a Rest in Peace coming, or can be flashed in with Chainer to really dampen the hurt.
Bone Harvest , Footbottom Feast , and Gravepurge are instant speed Loaming Shaman style effects that can save at least your creatures from this sort of thing. I don't run them because it requires you to both have them and hold up mana for them, but again if you're experiencing a lot of graveyard hate these can help. They also don't target, so they get around things like Grafdigger's Cage.
Corpse Churn , Grapple with the Past , and Sudden Reclamation are cards that can be used to help fuel your graveyard or to protect key pieces against targeted or mass hate. I ran Grapple for a while and cut it because it wasn't a great card for filling the graveyard, and I rarely needed it to stop a Rest in Peace, but it could be much better for you.
Riftsweeper can also help dig important pieces out of exile if they get hit, but I cut it because it was dead outside of these graveyard hate interactions and not furthering my own gameplan when I'm already on the back foot didn't feel great.
(1 Continued) Why I'm only running Plaguecrafter and not the other similar effects. Plaguecrafter is quite clearly the best of these style of effects, second maybe only to the C18 card that picks a different mode for each opponent. I cut the others mostly because Plaguecrafter puts in so much work for me, but also because they're bad against wider aggro strategies like Elves or Goblins, and they're hard to reliably use en masse. If you like this style of effect, Butcher of Malakir is Grave Pact on a body, or you could just slot in Grave Pact and Dictate of Erebos. They're fantastic cards, just not my style. I don't like having too much creature removal because when I'm ahead they don't do much of anything.
(2) The way the deck is setup now, you can go infinite with Izoni, Savra, Chainer, Earthcraft/Pitiless Plunderer, and enough creatures in the graveyard. The old combo relied on World Shaper I just haven't updated that section of the primer too much. I cut Bitter Ordeal purely for the fact that I just don't need a win condition because people scoop so often. Plaguecrafter can empty their hands, Izoni makes a mass of tokens, and Mikeaus makes it hard to truly get rid of anything I can stick. I'll update that section of the primer more in depth in a day or two when I've got some more time and have both the infinite and non-infinite win conditions listed.
(3) I don't have any alternative win conditions, but I also don't have any real win conditions either. Izoni is essentially my way to say "okay here's how I can finish the game" but as I stated above I mostly just get concessions when my opponent's are all topdecking and I've got 90% of my deck on the battlefield. Creature beatdown is viable, and if you're looking to go the fairer route like that you can add stuff like Pathbreaker Ibex or Avenger of Zendikar to really lay the smackdown on your opponents. You could also add in something like Exsanguinate or Torment of Hailfire as a "real" win condition with Cabal Coffers/Urborg and Pitiless Plunderer. There's a ton of ways you can tweak for your meta and playstyle so don't be afraid to toy around with spots. Just because I cut something in the past doesn't mean it's bad. I've gone back to old cuts numerous times. For example I recently re-added flip Liliana from Origins. It was never great for me before, but the first game I landed it after I put it back in Liliana won me the game by herself. The deck itself has gotten better since then, so that helps, but the point stands. Sorry for this really long-winded reply, just wanted to cover everything I could while I've got the time so sit down and give a thoughtful reply. Thanks again for the interest and I'm glad you like the deck! :)