|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Oath of the Gatewatch (OGW)||Common|
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Put the top three cards of your library into your graveyard, then you may return a creature card from your graveyard to your hand.
Corpse Churn Discussion
2 weeks ago
Satyr Wayfinder instead of Corpse Churn to go one bigger in the graveyard and give yourself a fighting chance to eventually get to 9 mana if everything goes poorly, also it's cheap enough to pay for with izareth if she's ever going to payoff
1 month ago
@Ripwater: Welcome to the dark side! I'm humbled that my list inspired you to actually build the deck. She is very hard to properly disrupt and that's why I love her so much. I'll answer your questions as best I can and hope that it helps! If you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask here or in a pm.
- Dealing with stuff getting exiled isn't generally a problem, except for mass graveyard hate like Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void. Sacrifice outlets can save any creature from targeted exile effects or even something like Merciless Eviction. At first I tried playing lots of cards to counter these kinds of cards, but in time I realized that just playing conservatively until you can find windows to take big turns is much better than having slots dedicated to reacting to being on the back foot. I've also learned that even having key pieces of the combo exiled or a huge chunk of value creatures getting removed isn't necessarily game over. The deck has a lot of built in resiliency and redundancy, so if a RiP hits a few value creatures, don't be afraid to blow it up and keep chugging along. However, if you are running into these types of effects a lot, and you need to be proactive about it, there are a few cards I've tested to help mitigate the damage done.
Loaming Shaman can help at sorcery speed if you anticipate a Rest in Peace coming, or can be flashed in with Chainer to really dampen the hurt.
Bone Harvest , Footbottom Feast , and Gravepurge are instant speed Loaming Shaman style effects that can save at least your creatures from this sort of thing. I don't run them because it requires you to both have them and hold up mana for them, but again if you're experiencing a lot of graveyard hate these can help. They also don't target, so they get around things like Grafdigger's Cage.
Corpse Churn , Grapple with the Past , and Sudden Reclamation are cards that can be used to help fuel your graveyard or to protect key pieces against targeted or mass hate. I ran Grapple for a while and cut it because it wasn't a great card for filling the graveyard, and I rarely needed it to stop a Rest in Peace, but it could be much better for you.
Riftsweeper can also help dig important pieces out of exile if they get hit, but I cut it because it was dead outside of these graveyard hate interactions and not furthering my own gameplan when I'm already on the back foot didn't feel great.
(1 Continued) Why I'm only running Plaguecrafter and not the other similar effects. Plaguecrafter is quite clearly the best of these style of effects, second maybe only to the C18 card that picks a different mode for each opponent. I cut the others mostly because Plaguecrafter puts in so much work for me, but also because they're bad against wider aggro strategies like Elves or Goblins, and they're hard to reliably use en masse. If you like this style of effect, Butcher of Malakir is Grave Pact on a body, or you could just slot in Grave Pact and Dictate of Erebos. They're fantastic cards, just not my style. I don't like having too much creature removal because when I'm ahead they don't do much of anything.
(2) The way the deck is setup now, you can go infinite with Izoni, Savra, Chainer, Earthcraft/Pitiless Plunderer, and enough creatures in the graveyard. The old combo relied on World Shaper I just haven't updated that section of the primer too much. I cut Bitter Ordeal purely for the fact that I just don't need a win condition because people scoop so often. Plaguecrafter can empty their hands, Izoni makes a mass of tokens, and Mikeaus makes it hard to truly get rid of anything I can stick. I'll update that section of the primer more in depth in a day or two when I've got some more time and have both the infinite and non-infinite win conditions listed.
(3) I don't have any alternative win conditions, but I also don't have any real win conditions either. Izoni is essentially my way to say "okay here's how I can finish the game" but as I stated above I mostly just get concessions when my opponent's are all topdecking and I've got 90% of my deck on the battlefield. Creature beatdown is viable, and if you're looking to go the fairer route like that you can add stuff like Pathbreaker Ibex or Avenger of Zendikar to really lay the smackdown on your opponents. You could also add in something like Exsanguinate or Torment of Hailfire as a "real" win condition with Cabal Coffers/Urborg and Pitiless Plunderer. There's a ton of ways you can tweak for your meta and playstyle so don't be afraid to toy around with spots. Just because I cut something in the past doesn't mean it's bad. I've gone back to old cuts numerous times. For example I recently re-added flip Liliana from Origins. It was never great for me before, but the first game I landed it after I put it back in Liliana won me the game by herself. The deck itself has gotten better since then, so that helps, but the point stands. Sorry for this really long-winded reply, just wanted to cover everything I could while I've got the time so sit down and give a thoughtful reply. Thanks again for the interest and I'm glad you like the deck! :)
2 months ago
Splinterfright might replace some copies of Ghoultree since it keeps building your yard and has trample. Boneyard Wurm is similar cheap alternative but lacks the extra abilities. Grim Flayer , Satyr Wayfinder , and Glowspore Shaman could also be useful. A copy or two of Vengeful Pharaoh can be a good deterrent if it fits your deck. Gnaw to the Bone might be useful against burn or aggro. Grisly Salvage puts 4 or 5 cards into the grave instead of Corpse Churn 's 2, but it has a harder casting cost and you have a smaller selection of creatures to bring back to your hand. Lastly Tombstalker might also be an interesting addition. Best of luck man.
5 months ago
I like what's going on. I think some of the instants/sorceries can be replaced or cut in lieu of a creature that does the same thing would be good. Unless you're burning an e witness or something to bring them back those cards are worthless in your graveyard, but as creatures they're easier for you to bring back and abuse multiple times. I'll add cards here that I would consider cutting just to bring numbers down.
- Liliana, Death Wielder, Liliana of the Dark Realms, Garruk Relentless, Disentomb, Corpse Churn, Pattern of Rebirth, Core Prowler, Kessig Cagebreakers, Puppeteer Clique, Riftsweeper, Spore Frog, Viridian Emissary, Wall of Blossoms, Winding Constrictor.
The rest is kind of flexible I feel with how much you want to do. How many 'ramp' creatures do you want vs how many 'sac outlet' creatures do you want vs how many 'killin shit' creatures do you want, etc. There's a lot of the same-ish effects from a lot of the creatures on the list, those can be narrowed down simply based on how you want things to run. There's a few creatures in there that provide hella value but don't necessarily fit with the theme in my opinion but I don't want to list cards as cuts since I'm not sure what you're thinking. And not to contradict myself right away but I did cut the proliferate stuff because while I get what you're trying to do with the extra counters on your general, I just don't think it's very effective or as reliable as your ability to simply sac outlet your little pissant creatures to get the counters.
- I think that if you plan on running more bodies or permanents I would cut all of your ramp spells like cultivate and kodama's and shit and just have creatures fill that role. If you can get essentially the same effect, creatures will ALWAYS be a better option than an instant/sorcery in this deck.
5 months ago
Is it just me or is Oriss, Samite Guardian really channeling tatooine bikini Leia. This might be a long one because there's a few things I wanna say and I have a habit of going into way too much detail.
You have very few ways of digging to a second Oriss. Most of your deck doesn't do anything if you don't have at least 2 of her and the chances of that happening naturally in any given game is around 12% on turn three and only reaches 50/50 by turn 12. The planeswalkers, removal and hand disruption help of course however being able to dig for a second copy would be incredibly valuable. I'm thinking Corpse Churn, Discovery / Dispersal or even Shriekhorn seeing as you have so many ways of getting stuff back.
Activating Oriss won't stop them killing her in response. The vast majority of removal spells in the modern format, especially the most played ones, are all instant speed. Modern decks usually fall into 2 categories : Proactive kill you on turn 4 combo decks and "fair" or "linear" control decks that are usually packed with Fatal Pushs(+fetch lands), multiple Lightning Bolts, Terminates, Path to Exiles and Cryptic Commands so if your planning on letting your opponents draw their entire deck they are going to get out of the lock eventually. My suggestion is Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots or even Gods Willing.
The bit where I suggest random cards. Palace Siege seems insane and tbh you probably want more Liliana, the Necromancer. Codex Shredder is like Shriekhorn except it can be a Time Warp when the lock is partially assembled. Memorial to Folly is a potential alternative to Haunted Fengraf. Dusk / Dawn has potential as both sides can be relevant and you usually want a split on wrath to play around Meddling Mage a.k.a. 1 Damnation, 1 Day of Judgment and 1 Wrath of God instead of 3 Wrath of God.
Anyways sweet deck concept. I think some version of this could be modern viable.
7 months ago
My thoughts (for what they're worth):
I think I see your plan: play a lot of dudes that can come back from the graveyard alongside board wipes (After all, Gravecrawler, Dread Wanderer, Graveyard Marshal, and Lord of the Undead all key off of that). It seems like a strong play once you're 10 turns in, but we should take advantage of the fact that your creatures can be played from the graveyard because that, in essence, means they are in your hand when they're in your graveyard. The more things that are there are in the graveyard, the more options you have to cast.
Maybe run a few of any of the following to help fill your graveyard faster: Entomb, Buried Alive, Corpse Churn, Grave Strength, Liliana's Indignation, Liliana, Death's Majesty, Stitcher's Supplier. Any of those will help fill your yard more quickly, letting you play with your synergies without needing to play a board wipe.
Alternately, look into Cryptbreaker as a way to draw cards.
Also, if budget isn't an issue, you could run Damnation instead of Languish, though Languish still does kill indestructible creatures with 4 or less toughness... Damnation is more versatile though (which might be why it's a $25 card :P )
1 year ago
Hey thanks for the feedback!
I really like Laquatus's Creativity and Whispering Madness since they're like a Forgotten Creation that I don't have to wait for the effect to trigger on, plus the cipher option on Whispering Madness is nice for the flexibility.
I initially had Deep Analysis and Sever the Bloodline in my first draft of this list but ended up cutting them for other cards. I still really want to include Sever the Bloodline as it is pretty decent removal and the flashback option is great, but I'm not sure what I would cut at the moment. I don't know how I missed Cackling Counterpart when building this, I'll have to figure out what I'm dropping but I definitely want to add him in so thanks for that suggestion.
I'm not too keen on Greenwarden of Murasa due to his CMC and the fact that he's $1.00 at the moment. I would definitely include him if it brought them to the battlefield instead of my hand, is there anything like him that does that I'm not already running?
Bitter Revelation and Mental Note seem a bit underwhelming to me, I feel like it's kinda like a less impactful Tracker's Instincts/Commune with the Gods/Forbidden Alchemy/Grisly Salvage but having a few more similar options might be good. I'll have to play the deck a few times and get a feel before I decide on that.
I 100% agree on Chronic Flooding, I like that it's more controlled and you don't have to worry about it decking you too much, gonna swap those out for each other.
Embalmer's Tools was another card I had in the first draft of this list that I ended up cutting, it's another card I definitely want to include but am not sure what to cut, probably going to end up dropping Blossoming Wreath as you suggested earlier as I agree that it's not that impactful/worth taking up a slot so I might put it in to replace that.
Fact or Fiction and Epiphany at the Drownyard are both great cards, just need to make room for them, probably going to drop Feldon's Cane since I wont be as worried about decking myself without Curse of the Bloody Tome to make room for one of these.
Extractor Demon is already in the list haha, but yeah very good.
I'm liking Gather the Pack probably going to drop something like Wreath of Geists because I feel like there's already enough options for +x/+x per creature in graveyard in the deck already but we'll see.
Thanks again for the feedback.
1 year ago
Greenwarden of Murasa could be good, maybe over crop sigil
Mental Note could be clever
Chronic Flooding seems better than the curse of the bloody tome
The new explore creatures form Ixalan could be good as well
Embalmer's Tools could be a clever way to mill yourself to hit creatures and create an army
Extractor Demon seems good
Gather the Pack seems cool
Possibily cut feldon's cane, with elixir of immortality you have alot of inevibility
maybe blossoming wreath as well, gnaw to the bone does more work and having spells just gain you life aren't worth it a lot of the times IMO
I haven't had good expirences with temple of the false good, maybe cut for Rogue's Passage for a go tall creature?
This is a really sweet deck! Very budget and looks like it plays out in fun and unique ways each game. I really like tinkering with budget decks, as you can probably guess, and I am currently working of a couple of my own. If you have the chance maybe check them out? Un-FLICKING-believable!!!!!!!!!! is my newest. Thanks and keep building budget brews!
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