Stack confusion surrounding Mirrorworks copies
Asked by yant0028 8 years ago
This came up in an EDH game and below is how I explained the interaction. I'm hoping I wasn't wrong.
Context: here are the relevant pieces in play....
Daretti Emblem (sorry, I'm not sure how to link this)
Prior to my end step, I sac all the above 3 artifacts to Slobad, triggering Daretti's Emblem.
At the beginning of the end step, the 3 artifacts return to play at the same time. This means that Mirrorworks sees the Tangle Wire and Thran Dynamo enter play. Despite the fact that I had 0 mana available to me, I announce that I would like to copy both the Thran Dynamo and Tangle Wire using Mirrorworks. Since I control the triggers, I would like to stack them so that I can use Thran Dynamo to pay for the copy of itself. Then once that resolves, the newly copied Thran Dynamo will give me enough mana to pay Mirrorworks for the "copy Tangle Wire" trigger that is next on the stack to resolve.
Is that correct? Thanks in advance for the help.
P.S. I realize saccing the Mirrorworks in the above scenario accomplished little, but I posed the question that way in case next time I have additional mana available and I'd like to make a copy of Mirrorworks itself. I do understand that the copy of Mirrorworks wouldn't trigger for the other artifacts in the above scenario, since they are already in play before the copy is created.
Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #2
"Payment for spells and abilities don't happen until it's beginning to resolve. It's the final step before resolution." I know that you know better than that. Paying for spells and abilities happens when you put them on the stack.
Mirrorworks ability gives you the option to pay mana as it resolves, there are a few other things that do this and you are given an opportunity to tap for mana if a resolving spell or ability asks for a mana payment.
You are able to end up copying the Thran Dynamo and Tangle Wire but the abilities have to be stacked in a specific order to allow you to do so. The Daretti, Scrap Savant emblem makes three delayed trigger abilities that all need to go on the stack at the beginning of the end step. Remembering that the stack resolves in FILO order you want to put the ability to return Tangle Wire on the stack first followed by the one for Thran Dynamo and then Mirrorworks. Mirrorworks will return, there were no other etb effects mentioned and it says "another nontoken.." so will not trigger itself (so you won't be able to copy it if you do have extra mana). Then Thran Dynamo will enter and trigger Mirrorworks. The trigger goes on the stack and is the next thing to resolve. During the resolution of the ability you are given the option to pay mana and afforded the opportunity to tap the Thran Dynamo that is on the battlefield for mana. If you pay the mana you will get a token copy of it. Next the ability to return the Tangle Wire resolves, and upon entering the Tangle Wire triggers Mirrorworks. During the resolution of that trigger you can tap the token Dynamo to pay for it.
There are obviously rounds of priority passed between each thing resolving; but if no one adds anything else to the stack, it will resolve that way.
December 31, 2015 9:44 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #3
I blame the alcohol Gidgetimer. xP It's New Years eve.
December 31, 2015 10:32 p.m.
Thank you both, but special props to you Gidgetimer for the incredibly detailed breakdown! While the outcome was the same, I now realize I didn't explain/handle things properly. I need to remember that Daretti's Emblem creates individual delayed triggers and that I must choose the order in which to stack those triggers if I want them to resolve in the optimal order. I think I treated the Emblem as though it said something like "At the beginning of the next end step, return to the battlefield all artifacts that were put into your graveyard from play this turn", which if I understand correctly, would create the scenario in my original post (where all the artifacts return at the same time).
Also, I knew about the "another nontoken artifact" clause on Mirrorworks; not sure why I blanked on that one when I asked the question :P
Anyway, thanks again and Happy 2016!
Raging_Squiggle says... #1
Payment for spells and abilities don't happen until it's beginning to resolve. It's the final step before resolution.
Mana abilities are special in which they may be used to pay for costs during a spell or ability.
If you pay for the copy of Thran Dynamo by tapping the actual card of itself, the copy will be in play and ready to use once you're ready to pay for the next ability on the stack. It's similar to Nim Deathmantle where you dont pay the cost until the ability has begun to resolve.
Conclusion: it would work as you expect.
December 31, 2015 9:23 p.m.