|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Masters 25 (A25)||Uncommon|
|Duel Decks: Sorin vs. Tibalt (DDK)||Uncommon|
|Premium Deck Series: Fire and Lightning (PFL)||Uncommon|
|Time Spiral "Timeshifted" (TSB)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Uncommon|
Combos Browse all
Any player may have Browbeat deal 5 damage to him or her. If no one does, target player draws three cards.
2 weeks ago
enpc Your response makes me believe you didn't actually read the OP through. Further suggested by how you said earlier that I forgot to talk about White's ability to resource denial while I clearly had a shorter paragraph mentioning Armageddon , Ravages of War and Limited Resources and how I didn't believe that archetype was a very progressive way to forward white's multiplayer playability in Commander, even though it is one of white's more powerful archetypes but it has some nasty side effects on the political spectrum.
My main problem with white having to almost exclusively go to artifacts for fixing their problems on ramp and card draw is exactly because artifacts are plentiful in Commander and therefore many run artifact removal. It is quite tough as a white player that spent a lot of mana on dishing out mana ramp and/or card draw artifacts, just to have an opponent cast Bane of Progress or Vandalblast or be the target of an incidental Casualties of War or Aura Shards , and there's limited options for white to counter that, bar the expensive catch-all . Why green has better and more flexible counters that actually fits white more is a bit strange to me and I wish white had at least a comparable answer that didn't cost 40$.
In a way I wouldn't mind if white also got some artifact restoration as they did in the older days . Blue and red has some good artifact pulls but white did have that same affinity back in the day, so it is definitely part of their color pie . White just has a huge problem again with the symmetrical effects being a disadvantage in multiplayer unless they can fuel the graveyard - which they cannot by themselves.
One solution could be a Tempting Offer card that pulls back artifacts.
Tempting Offer Show
White's tempting artifact recovery
Tempting Offer - Return an artifact card from your graveyard to the battlefield. Each opponent may an artifact card from their graveyard to the battlefield. For each opponent who does, you may return an artifact card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Most opponents would likely take the offer to return their strongest artifact to their board, and in exchange white gets to mass-return their wrecked artifacts at a discount. Unlike say Tempt with Discovery which in general should never be accepted.
One of the mana ramp suggestions (in the OP) was indeed to return low CMC permanents, which could hit ramp artifacts as well - so pulling double duty and well within white's color pie. Getting extra lands this way is more resilient versus playing mana artifacts but requires extra steps compared to mana artifacts and will never be a true replacement but merely a supplement. And it's not the first time white restores lands .
I think it would be better if white players could included these types of permanent restoration cards into their decks and it was viable, rather than having to put Manalith into their deck.
Again these suggestions are unlikely to replace mana artifacts or become auto-includes, but they could provide good supplementary support. I advocate choice, but if improvements could be made to a color specific solution to a color that falls behind in the format, then I see no issue.
And none of the suggested cards are something I would imagine would swim rather than sink in eternal formats, but it's possible there's something I overlook.
It's also meant as a general take on a possible solution, and not necessarily the only thing needed to improve white's ability to compete in casual EDH. For instance if the land restoration cards I suggested was a way to go, then more cards that facilitate that line of play could be made. More functional reprints of Evolving Wilds , a variant on Flagstones of Trokair or basically anything that helps that line of play and doesn't need to be *the* fetchlands . Prismatic Vista was a very good alternative to the fetchlands, that sadly has taken a very similar price trend. Although I think that may have more to do with the price of the Modern Horizons set compared to what value was in there, than the actual card - a cash-back so to speak. Now I just hope for future functional reprints - even while owning 2 Prismatic Vista s.
White lands that end up in the graveyard Show
Variant on Flagstones of Trokair
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
, Sacrifice ~: Search your library for a basic Plains card and put it onto the battlefield, you gain 2 life.
Something with a line of play that lets you put lands into the graveyard but not fall behind on lands in play.
, : Look at the top 6 cards of your library, you may put any number of land cards from among them into your graveyard, then put the rest of the cards on the bottom of your library in a random order. You may shuffle your library.
Outside the colors of Jund's lands matters deck. Outside of most landfall decks. Will likely cause Crucible of Worlds to increase in price, but is an example of something white could do that isn't specifically self-mill, isn't draw discard and isn't land- Buried Alive .
White have previously had a somewhat similar effect in Endless Horizons , one that is somewhat similar to Land Tax . Where Endless Horizons essentially provides deck thinning and pseudo card-advantage, it also presents a rather significant risk if blown up, especially if you play greedy - don't do it. This suggested land or whatever it will end up being, it doesn't need to be a land... it can thin your deck and throw lands in the graveyard, and provide a library shuffle if needed.
What I mean to say with the above, is that the suggestions in the OP and here is more about a direction of solutions to this perceived issue with white in casual Commander, more than it is "this card will single-handedly turn white into just as great a color as green for Commander". Therefore reflecting on these cards' viability in context to only existing cards would be against the point I try to make.
Think of red for a moment. For almost two decades, red didn't have actual card advantage. They had Browbeat as a punisher mechanic, they had Wheel of Fortune in the very early days but those are more exceptions than the rule. Then red got their temporary draw or draws with downside with an underlying theme "it's here in the now, use it or waste it". Card draw is so basic and essential to the game, that each color has come up with ways to achieve it. I think white needs to find a similar solution for multiplayer formats.
And finally, to quote you; "But if your argument is that they're not as good (the manarocks) and so you don't want to play them, then tough, welcome to how balancing works. And if that's not fair in your mind then you have some really bad double standards."
Does balancing need to include price tags? Joke aside.
But how come a large portion of the Commander community has expressed that white and to a lesser extend red are the least powerful colors in Commander, especially white when considering mono color? Red is getting support lately and is improving, but white falls behind.
Do you claim you know balance better than all those people?
1 month ago
I don't know how much of a hassle it would be, but it would help a ton for reviewers if you formatted this better. The program will auto-sort things if you input them in the correct fashion, separating things. This makes it very easy to figure out how your decks works at a glance, even if you don't have very much explanation.
Another thing that helps is if you offer a few tips on how the deck works, any key combos, that sort of thing.
Anyways, now to your deck itself. From my brief testing, it seems a very solid 'fair' deck, as in, one that isn't too big on dirty tricks, and isn't crazy fast. A very good choice for playing with friends or people you like.
Areas for improvement are increasing your land count a bit, probably by using basics or more Dragonskull Summit if you can afford them. Simple Evolving Wilds can be useful in a deck like this, but it has a delay and you don't have too much devotion cards in either color, so probably just use a few more basic swamps.
Rakdos Keyrune is a good card I think for a deck like this too, and helps get out some of the bigger cards. Lightning Bolt or Seal of Fire are very handy, with Seal being better vs control usually, and it's cheaper. I would consider a Browbeat or 2 might help draw spells, since you have lots of pressure on their life total if they aren't gaining life. Dash Hopes might be fun, but it usually benefits from being a 4 of, since each is better over all if you've already played one or more. Both choice cards are fairly casual cards IMHO, and might add some fun factor.
1 month ago
2 months ago
I believe the posts asked for 27 cuts. These are just my suggestions but this is more from a competitive stand point; card choices in commander are subjective and if you have fun with any of the cards I'd personally cut just keep playing them :)
Fog - a 1 time prevent combat damage is cute but it won't win you any games or allow you to trade up in resources.
Browbeat - is a cool political card but in reality with a group of strangers especially at 40 life most will just take the 4.
Undercity Uprising - cool art lackluster card.
Alpha Brawl - is interesting but it seems over costed. Especially, since it only targets one opponent
2 months ago
In my mono-red deck, I also find I need more cards, so atm I have 4 Browbeat in it, and I have 4 Risk Factor I will likely be adding, though I may remove some or all Browbeats. These work in a fast/burn based deck, as either outcome is bad for them. You getting 3 cards means that even very early, you can hit them hard next turn, and later, you can likely play some of the 3 cards that turn (IE when you have 5 or 6 mana). The damage can be seen as a cost effective Lava Axe , since your win condition is summed up with 'Win Really Fast', it also has synergy. They will usually take the damage early, and let you draw later.
Raze x3 isn't very much land destruction, but since you get to target the land, you have to ask yourself if in your meta people run specific lands, or create in game via enchantment, lands that you would very much like to destroy. You also need to consider how many lands you need out to 'do your thing'. Do you need 5 mana to win? Maybe Raze isn't a perfect fit then, unless you've got some ramp. But you've got a glut of 1 mana spells, so if anything, you are much better off in this trade than your opponent. If people run decks that have lands that are worth targeting, then Raze is competitive. A Scorched Earth or two adds some bulk to your land destruction, and you really have a low average mana cost, so you might be able to pull this card off without much change.
Well, I wasn't meaning for you to use Siege-Gang unless you were using Lackey, as a way to cheat him out.
3 months ago
Ok that makes total sense Possibly a couple more damage sorceries and a few less recursion? Can’t recur them if you don’t draw them
Well. I wasn’t specific enough in my search. But these caught my eye
3 months ago
xander11 I probably will end up cutting a Browbeat , maybe even more. I know straight burn or straight card draw is better than letting the opponent choose what option seems like less of a threat. At the same time, i can see many situations where i would be happy with either choice, and i dont plan to play the card like an ace or too last minute. Ill see how it plays out most likely with 2, and cut it down or out if it doesnt seem to fare too well when i think it would be most useful.
3 months ago
xander11 i have been considering dropping saheeli and focusing on speed, but I gotta keep the Browbeat . The deck needs card draw opportunity, and worst case if i dont get that, i get 5 burn damage. And in a Doublecast situation its brutal. Its a cheap 3 card draw and a cheap 5 damage either way the opponent chooses. Id say out of my other instants and sorceries its one that I particularly would want to draw. Maybe i can cut something else and run more copies of fewer cards, but id cut 1 or 2 Doublecast or even an Electrolyze before i go below 3 Browbeat . Maybe more plays will demonstrate that its too slow but it seems really promising in this deck.
Browbeat occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.0%