Azorius U/W Control on a Budget
Modern Deck Help forum
Posted on Dec. 3, 2017, 3:35 p.m. by ArchonBlue
Classic U/W Control, counter things, exile things, etc. More info on the deck under comments. I'm a new player so I greatly appreciate insight from seasoned vets, especially other pilots of U/W Control. :)
Edit: Thank you all for your feedback! I changed the deck quite a bit. I still need help with:
Win cons: Currently my major win cons are the two Aetherlings, but I know there is a lot more I could play with.
Mana base: I can't afford Celestial Colonnade yet, besides that how else do you think I could improve my mana base?
Creatures: Should I cut more creatures out for more counters? More cantrips?
Cantrips: Do I need both Opt and Serum Visions? What about Sleight of Hand?
Counters: Besides the obvious Cryptic Command, any idea how I could improve my counter base?
Enchantments: Detention Sphere or Ixalan's Binding?
If any of you need help as well, I would be nore than happy to provide it! :) Happy holidays!
APPLE01DOJ says... #3
Fate Forgotten should be Disenchant. Consider Detention Sphere instead of Prison Term.
Deck looks much much better than before.
December 3, 2017 4:15 p.m.
ArchonBlue says... #4
Yea, I need some Detention Spheres regardless. The only thing I like about Prison Term is it is a little more versatile since I can swap it around.
I didn't know Disenchant existed haha. I will definitely get some of those for my Sideboard. Thank you!
December 3, 2017 4:21 p.m.
ArchonBlue says... #5
Also I was thinking about putting a planeswalker or two in here. Any suggestions? Would that make the deck better to have planeswalker(s)?
December 3, 2017 5:54 p.m.
ArchonBlue says... #8
@Wormlove you mean how much the deck is worth or how much more I am willing to spend on it?
December 3, 2017 8:10 p.m.
I'd cut each the following:
-1x Tablet of the Guilds (lifegain on its own is generally terrible)
-3x Prison Term (there's a lot of better options))
-1x Wall of Denial (again, better options are out there)
-1x Angel of Invention (doesn't dodge Lightning Bolt and you're not playing a lot of creatures. It's mana cost is too high to justify playing a creature without flash)
-1x Niblis of Frost (It dodges Fatal Push and Abrupt Decay, but not Lightning Bolt)
-3x Render Silent (there are cheaper Counterspells. 3 mana is a lot)
-1x AEtherling (you don't need a lot of win conditions)
-1x Azorius Guildmage (we need some room)
-2x Negate (again, need more room for some other stuff)
I'd add:
+1x Opt (you want 4 copies)
+2x Detention Sphere (general purpose removeal)
+2x Mana Leak (low mana Counterspell)
+1x Dispel (this is fills a role similar to Negate, except it costs less mana)
+1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion (this is the type of win condition you're probably looking for)
+1x Condemn (Death's Shadow really doesn't like this card)
+1x Logic Knot (it's a hard counter that's excellent to have later in the game)
+4x Spreading Seas (some decks simply won't be able to cast spells at all if you play this, especially Tron)
+1x Venser, Shaper Savant (this should just be in your main)
For your sideboard, I'd do:
1x Blessed Alliance (good catch-all card to handle a variety of decks)
1x Supreme Verdict (against Aggro, you'll want more sweepers)
2x Blind Obedience (this is a good choice against burn and you're already playing them)
2x Disenchant (you need instant speed artifact/enchantment removal)
2x Relic of Progenitus (graveyard hate)
1x Essence Scatter (good choice)
2x Negate (these are the ones that were main but get moved to the side. You bring them in against combo and control)
1x Dispel (against some decks you'll want 2, namely control decks)
1x Celestial Purge (beats Zoo, Burn, and Rock strategies)
2x Ceremonious Rejection (helps against Tron and Affinity)
After that, the main things you'll want are Cryptic Command, Snapcaster Mage, Celestial Colonnade, and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip (which you know). On the cheaper end of things, look to getting 3x more Serum Visions, Search for Azcanta Flip, Jace, Architect of Thought, Stony Silence, Rest in Peace, Mindbreak Trap, and Wall of Omens.
You'll also want to improve your mana base, as that's probably the most important part of a control deck. Once you have 4x Flooded Strands, 4x Hallowed Fountain, and 4x Glacial Fortress, you can add in more utility lands, such as Field of Ruin and Ghost Quarter. Seachrome Coast is another great option.
I'd cut Evolving Wilds from your deck right away and add in 3x Plains and 1x Island. Port Town and Temple of Enlightenment are okay to have, but look to replace those with Glacial Fortress or the other lands I mentioned. You really don't want lands that always come into play tapped that aren't manlands. Otherwise, you'll die when you can't cast Supreme Verdict on turn 4 or Dispel + Negate on turn 3 when you're going second against burn.
December 4, 2017 12:20 a.m.
ArchonBlue says... #10
@sylvannos, thank you so much for taking the time to give me such detailed and thoughtful feedback! I have made a few adjustments as a result, based on the cards that I have on hand and how much I am willing to overhaul the deck without playing more. I definitely need some Detention Spheres and Glacial Fortress. I don't have Logic Knot I don't think, I'll have to check. I put in Countervailing Winds as a sub which is pretty similar. I replaced Niblis of Frost with Venser, Shaper Savant and shuffled around some of my counters. I also ordered some Disenchants based in part on a previous comment. Do you think I need four Serum Visions and four Opt? That's a lot of card draw and they aren't that different. Also, I have a bunch of Repeal. What do you think of that as a counterspell?
December 4, 2017 9:37 p.m.
ArchonBlue says... #11
Edit: I ran into a bit of a mana glut playtesting just now, so I am going to keep the 3x Evolving Wild until I can replace them with a better fetch land like Flooded Strand.
December 4, 2017 10:44 p.m.
@ArchonBlue: If you don't have Logic Knot, just stay with Negate or Render Silent. It's there so you have late-game counter magic that stops everything (as opposed to Mana Leak that doesn't do much of anything past turn 4).
Serum Visions is the better card (generally) in control decks because 1) you need 1-mana spells to do things with on turn 1; and 2) it looks at 3 cards each time vs. a maximum of 2 with Opt. Since you're on a budget, I figured you probably wanted to go with a cheaper option and focus more on improving your mana base first, along with getting more staples.
Do you have your deck loaded into the deck builder here on Tapped Out? It makes seeing changes and stuff a lot easier.
edit: Repeal is a great card, but it's more of a tempo play and much stronger in decks that can produce lots of mana quickly. Boomerang would be better in all likelihood.
December 5, 2017 6:44 a.m. Edited.
This is probably the worst idea you can have. If you play on a budget stick to mono red burn, or goblins, 8 whack, that kind of stuff.
Control on a budget is like yatch racing on a budget...it doesnt make any sense, and wont work.....
December 5, 2017 9:20 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #14
Ignore ArcDevil, he's went back for his second baby bottle of spike juice this morning and feels the need to spread his hate. The teething twos are terrible.
Anyway, I agree if the above. If you go to deck builder and create a list, it'll be much easier for us to help you. Link it in this thread once you're done.
I have a Control deck that runs both Opt and Serum Visions. It quite likes using both.
Mono Blue Control - Annihilation -
Modern*
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December 5, 2017 11:11 a.m.
OP, ignore APPLE01DOJ, he's either trolling or stupid.
Control in modern lives and dies by its optimization, and it already is an uphill battle as it is playing the best cards. and you are making such large amount of concessions and shedding percentages left and right with second or third rate choices that I doubt you could even beat equally budget decks of other archetypes.
There are very few things that can be played on a budget in modern, but Control is definetly at the top of the list of NO-NOs. All you are doing is spending money on a pile of cards that wont ever win any half-serious deck, money that could perhaps be better spent in a cheaper aggro or combo deck to FAR better results.
Dont budget Control. Seriously. You are simply doing your opponents a favour. Dont be that guy
December 5, 2017 3:29 p.m.
Control can definitely be played on a budget, especially when you limit yourself on colors.
You're being a negative Nancy and it really isn't helpful.
December 5, 2017 6:01 p.m.
arcdevil what do you not get about being on a budget? Being a student teacher, which pays little, OP most likely simply doesn't have the money to build a fully fleshed out control deck. Given that they physically cannot afford the deck, making a deck within your budget is not being "easy", it's doing what you can with your limits
December 5, 2017 7:59 p.m.
nyjfan2816 says... #18
(http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/get-bribed/)I just made U/W Control deck, and it costs 30~ because of a couple high cost cards. Basically it bribes your enemies creatures to do nothing, and swings over time with flying. I response boardwipe with spell queller and Supreme Verdict when odds are looking bad. This might be a touch expensive, but it has a good basis for Azorius control.
December 5, 2017 10 p.m.
ArchonBlue says... #19
Thanks for the feedback everyone! What do you guys think about Condescend? It offers more deck manipulation with the Scry 2 ability and unlike Mana Leak it is still helpful in the later game. There are so many counterspells I am having trouble picking from them!
December 10, 2017 3:20 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #20
I haven't had much success with it myself but I've had others successfully use it against me. My opinion is that it's tailored to U-Tron where traditional Control prefers Logic Knot.
December 10, 2017 4:34 p.m.
Condescend is much better in big mana decks like Tron, as APPLE01DOJ suggested. In order for Condescend to counter something for , you have to pay , versus the of Mana Leak. That lower cost is what buys time until you can cast something like Cryptic Command or Venser, Shaper Savant.
The other thing is that you will also get into counter wars frequently as the control player. Oftentimes, your opponent will do something like Might of Old Krosa on their Glistener Elf. You respond with Dispel, they respond with Apostle's Blessing, and so on. Eventually, it gets to the point where Mana Leak comes in when they have and you counter their threat anyway.
In such situations, you're trying to have as much mana as possible to avoid tapping out. If you Condescend for the Might of Old Krosa right away, you walk right into their Apostle's Blessing. Having lower CMC spells in multiples helps you more in these situations.
December 10, 2017 8:31 p.m.
ArchonBlue says... #22
That makes sense! Ok, what about Sleight of Hand over Serum Visions? I would think Serum Visions because it allows you to go through more cards but Sleight of Hand does give you more choices right off the bat. And is the instant quality of Opt worth it to mainboard it in addition or possible instead of some of those cards?
December 10, 2017 11:40 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #23
I would run Anticipate over Sleight of Hand personally. Simply because you're capable of holding up Mana Leak and if you don't need it you can cast Anticipate EOT.
As for your question, between Opt and Serum Visions it really depends on what you run with them. For instance running Snapcaster Mage makes Opt more viable while running Delver of Secrets makes Serum Visions the better choice.
In my own opinion, both are worth running. You can run both as full play sets, a mixture of both, or one or the other. It really comes down to your preference.
Another card worth looking at is Think Twice, for the same reason as Anticipate being able to hold up a counter and draw a card if you don't need it is a great play.
December 11, 2017 12:01 a.m.
Serum Visions is better than both in a control shell because it looks at 3 cards. Its only downside, as you mention, is that it's a sorcery vs. an instant.
I suggested Opt for budget reasons. If you're limited to what you can buy, saving ~$8 so you can buy a Flooded Strand or something is likely better, as the superiority of Serum Visions over Opt isn't as big a difference between, say, Cryptic Command and Ojutai's Command.
If you have the budget, definitely go for Serum Visions over anything else. Sleight of Hand is better in combo decks when you're playing every 1-drop, blue cantrip in the format.
December 11, 2017 12:18 a.m.
ArchonBlue says... #25
I updated the deck-let me know what y'all think!
ArchonBlue says... #2
Actually, I don't know how to delete my old deck so if someone could help me out with that I would really appreciate it!
December 3, 2017 3:42 p.m.