, Discard a land card: Molten Vortex deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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Molten Vortex Discussion
2 weeks ago
2 months ago
@Raging_Squiggle, the cards you suggested removing have benefitted me countless times in cEDH though. Personally, I'd rather remove Terminate first. Holding up less mana every turn to address multiple threats is better as it gives me more flexibility. If you want to advance your boardstate it's better to hold up two 1's and a 2 than two 2's and a 3. Finding ways to do things cheaper without need for ramp is in a way card advantage as I see it and it mitigates how severe a discard cost is when you build your deck around flexibility than tempo. As I said I like playing more reactively than proactively. As for my experiences Lightning Axe 's removal capabilities in commander I find to be on par with Lightning Bolt 's capability in 60 card formats - not capable of removing everything but efficient enough to not get in the way of doing two things at once. Sinister Concoction is telegraphed removal which is incredibly undervalued in multiplayer settings as no one willingly wants to have it proc on their best card in hand, and having that kind of chilling effect on a whole table for one mana is pretty strong. And then there's Molten Vortex which is probably the best thing on earth for removing hatebear after hatebear and bypassing counter spells in blue combo decks. Losing lands to it may seem steep, but the cost is nothing when your opposition is locking you down and locking you out in the first place and if its a dead card I pitch it to the Lightning Axe or Sinister Concoction anyway.
Personally I've grown to loathe "non-black" removal spells. It's not just this combo but its also The Gitrog Monster and Kaalia of the Vast and Nekusar, the Mindrazer and Opposition Agent . I acknowledge there are a lot of non-black targets I can use it on instead, but picking between a Doom Blade and a Murder when Lightning Axe / Dismember takes out more of them for less mana sums up my approach to this. And I do run Chaos Warp , Anguished Unmaking and Generous Gift along with a slew of boardwipes for anything bigger - I just didn't mention I ran them here when the focus of my thread is on small and early game threats where the heavier removal isn't as apt at addressing these problems.
Still, even without the mana ramp the combo can come down on turn three by casting the cards on consecutive turns or on turn four by playing them all at once, and we are talking about competitive black which has plenty of tutors. In the early game holding up 2 or 3 mana for only one answer every turn I find to be a waste. It's not just this combo either as I'm in the company of decks that are looking to end or lock the game before turn six if left in a vacuum. At the same time I still want to acknowledge other non-aggressive strategies do exist and striking the balance is difficult when one set of cards is too slow for my current meta and another set don't go far enough for everything outside of that meta. Personally, I think the small spells still have some merit in all cases whereas the larger spells become an annoying liability when you're put on the clock. It's another reason why I value being reactive than proactive, to value flexibility over tempo, because I'd need to pick a different commander entirely if I want to match the speed my competitors play at. However, my opponents lose much more value than I do when they go headfirst into certain strategies only for them to be thwarted such as with the Witherbloom Apprentice + Chain of Smog combo or with the Auriok Salvagers + Lion's Eye Diamond combo or the Worldgorger Dragon + Animate Dead combo or anything that relies on Doomsday . My deck is built to address this kind of madness, but when I make card decisions I still want to keep more normal metas in mind when picking cards. Cards like Magma Spray and Fatal Push are incredibly narrow, I know that, but what I need to know is which card of that set is the best for taking on problems outside of my own meta.
2 months ago
If you’re playing competitive, you need to ditch some of the removal you have for ones with fewer drawbacks/requirements or ones that straight up kill something. Namely Sinister Concoction , Lightning Axe , and Molten Vortex .
Typically 2 or less suffice fine. Free spells are most important. Snuff Out , Force of Despair , and Slaughter Pact . Heartless Act , Devour in Shadow , Victim of Night , Fatal Push , Vendetta are all solid cedh removal spells because they either go for wider range of targets at 2 mana, or only cost 1, though may not be able to hit some things. This is usually the suite I run in Bx decks.
the likelihood of this player having Chain, the creature, a green and a black land, dark ritual, or Sol Ring+Rock in their opening hand is very low.
Don’t build around something that might happen once every 20 games. And don’t restrict your removal suite to only cards that deal with a little creature like that, you want to have cards that can deal with a multitude of potential threats.
2 months ago
I enjoy playing competitive EDH and one of the recently spoiled Strixhaven cards I already know is going to shake-up my meta and make things difficult for me. Namely Witherbloom Apprentice is the card I'm dreading as it can close out a game if it's controller casts Chain of Smog as it can be copied infinitely if the controller always targets themself with it. It's very likely every BGx deck in my play group is going to run this combo given how easy it is to setup and when you pair the possibility of closing out the game on turn two through Dark Ritual or Sol Ring into a mana rock, it becomes a lethal threat I can't ignore when making deck building decisions. As such, I feel I need to add another one mana creature removal spell in my deck, but I'm stumped over which spell I should include not just to address this potential combo but also have the most practical use outside of it as well.
My current list of removal spells are: Path to Exile , Swords to Plowshares , Sinister Concoction , Dismember , Lightning Axe , Molten Vortex , Red Elemental Blast , Pyroblast and Terminate (I enjoy playing more reactively than proactively.)
The removal spells I'm considering are: Dark Betrayal , Fatal Push , Human Frailty , Lightning Bolt , Magma Spray , Weight of Spires and Seal of Fire . (The last one I'm considering for its use around counterspells by casting it early.)
Notable exclusions are: Deadly Rollick , Defile , Dispatch , Force of Despair , Galvanic Blast , Murderous Cut , Mutual Destruction , Necrotic Wound , Pyrokinesis , Reckless Rage , Skred and Tragic Slip as I feel I don't have the means to meet these card restrictions consistent enough to be useful in my deck, especially in the early game. I'm also not considering two mana removal spells like Go for the Throat because I feel at this point cost effectiveness matters more than removal range.
Of course the best removal spell is going to depend heavily on the meta, but I'm generally trying to figure out which of the spells I'm considering is the best in a competitive environment in general. I'm looking for feedback and second opinions on whether you think any of the spells shines well above the rest through your own play experiences. I appreciate any insight I can get, thanks.
7 months ago
jaymc1130 Tbh flash sorta sucks in an OP Agent meta xD
Path to Exile as well as Swords to Plowshares off will quite possibly be run a lot more together, and actually is really good of you and an opponent have OP Agents out, so you can remove theirs and steal a land simultaneously. Exiling removes Unearth/Reanimate shenanigans so white has a massive leg up in the removal category.
Rapid Hybridization/Pongify feel more akin to the red or black removal spells, and bounce is so-so, but obviously countermagic and steal effects are possibly the best ways to deal with OP Agent. Gilded Drake has gotten a ton better with cards like Kinnan, Breacher, and OP Agent being powerful options for any deck, often especially ones outside of the colors.
I think green decks like Yisan are the worst off, while Ulvenwald Tracker is probably the best, it doesn't have many options past that, so I think they are hurt by this shift a lot.
Edit: Trophy&path are may abilities, so it's not a free card.
7 months ago
People keep posting that you should run Lightning Bolt in your deck. As far as cheap removal goes there are plenty removal spells I’d rather run before I pick up Lightning Bolt. My picks include Dismember, Lightning Axe, Sinister Concoction, Weight of Spires, Go for the Throat, Terminate, Molten Vortex, and Heartless Act
8 months ago
(If you're dealt lethal damage with Lich's Mirror under your control, but you don't own it, it won't shuffle itself back in. Molten Vortex will prevent your life total from being raised to 20, so when state based actions are checked, you will lose again and the mirror will trigger again, and again, and again, making this an infinite loop that keeps itself going, and therefore draws the game)
8 months ago
Hello, There's a lot of really interesting cards that have been printed into modern with the release of Zendikar Rising, and one of the cards that I liked that hasn't really seen any decks built for it is Wayward Guide-Beast. Now it clearly isnt very good in an aggro deck, but there's something that it does that I think makes it worth looking at: You can play it in later turns, where it can be a quick clock while also being a decent engine and control piece.
Being a 2/2 with haste and trample, you can cast it with interaction up, and start swinging. While you are doing this, you are returning lands to your hand, which I think you can leverage into card advantage. You can draw Lightning Bolt every turn with Mystic Sanctuary, Use Searing Blaze, maybe attack and then replay a card:mutavault to block, take advantage of unique etb triggers for lands such as that of Bojuka Bog or Radiant Fountain. It just seems like there's a lot if stuff that yoy can do with this card. When it works, it seems like an excellent clock and control piece. If you have any ideas for a fleshed out list let me know. I have been thinking of doing a delver shell and including flip lands for higher frequency of delver flips and more card selection that you can use with later Wayward Guide-Beast. Another idea I had was to play Molten Vortex to have a lot of extra reach in the late game.
While Im at it, I started a little project to go through all of the modern legal sets and just noting down all remotely playable cards. This would be a deck building tool for anyone who likes brewing decks. If you are interested, you can find that here.
Anyways, any comments are appreciated. Thanks for reading.