Honden of Seeing Winds
Legendary Enchantment — Shrine
At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card for each Shrine you control.
Printings View all
|Eternal Masters (EMA)||Uncommon|
|Champions of Kamigawa (CHK)||Uncommon|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Honden of Seeing Winds Discussion
5 months ago
First, Propaganda is not modern legal.
In testing my Enduring Ideal deck, I found Perplexing Chimera has been an all star: it gives the opponent a useless 3/3 in exchange for any spell that might get them out of the lock, but that's a totally different style of deck. I think for your style deck, you would probably want Hall of Heliod's Generosity , and Lunar Force to lock them down while you mill them out with your Psychic Corrosion . You might also want Sphinx's Tutelage , Jace's Erasure or Memory Erosion to speed it up.
5 months ago
I know you're looking for non-wheel card draw. I don't love cantrips in EDH unless there is a number-of-spells-matters effect in play but they can smooth out a deck a bit. Ponder , Preordain , Portent , Sleight of Hand , Serum Visions , etc. The sweet spot in around 3-5 CMC for me, ideally drawing CMC -1 but there aren't a ton of spells that efficient. I don't love Divination in EDH (2 for 3) but it's the gold-standard in 60-card decks for a quickie hand refill. There are tons of efficient cards like Divination too.
There are a ton of "draw 3, discard 1" for 4 or 5 mana, which are okay. Sift , Trial of Knowledge , and Amass the Components , for example. Many are costed for being commons, which isn't where you wanna be in EDH. There should be plenty of good, efficient cards to draw from though. At the same time, you have a lot of great high-CMC draw, like Consecrated Sphinx and Thought Reflection, so having a few Divination effects might smooth out your draws.
Some suggestions: Concentrate , Windfall , Cathartic Reunion , Plea for Power , Tidings , Nin, the Pain Artist , Finale of Revelation , Mind Spring , Braingeyser , Stroke of Genius , Blue Sun's Zenith , Fact or Fiction , Chart a Course , Ugin's Insight , Treasure Cruise , Dig Through Time , Kumena's Awakening , Fevered Visions , Honden of Seeing Winds , Reverse Engineer , Read the Runes , Precognitive Perception , Distant Memories , Arcane Encyclopedia , Endless Atlas , Trail of Evidence , Theft of Dreams , Borrowing 100,000 Arrows , Nezahal, Primal Tide , Kefnet the Mindful , Cavalier of Gales , Combustible Gearhulk , Thassa, God of the Sea , Shared Discovery , Secrets of the Golden City , Vivisection , Weight of Memory , Recurring Insight , Breakthrough , Niv-Mizzet, Parun , Deep Analysis , Gush , Invoke the Firemind , Expansion / Explosion , Chandra, Flamecaller , Dragon Mage , Wild Guess , Tormenting Voice , Arch of Orazca , Runehorn Hellkite , Conqueror's Galleon Flip, Kraum, Ludevic's Opus , Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist , Commune with Lava .
8 months ago
If you intentionally don't use Primal Surge to the maximum capabilities, you are not min-maxing your deck. Without diving into more technical applications of card advantage, resource cost, opportunity cost, and speed that factor into format defining competitive decks, we can refute your min-max shenanigans with that one little argument alone. You are also spending the maximum amount of mana to get the effect, instead of cheating to cast Primal Surge somehow, which doesn't mean you're getting the minimum either. You're getting a maximum-mediocre, which is a lot different than a minimum-maximum. You haven't even minimized the number of non-permanent spells, because that would be 0 and that's definitely something you could do. facepalm again
Having the opinion that one card wincons are boring doesn't make much difference to how effective they are. Also Coalition Victory is banned because of the ease of Prismatic Omen with a 5 color commander, not because its a one card wincon (which its not, it requires at least 1 creature and 1 land that makes 3 cards, not even counting the cards required to cast the spell in the first place), the other reason being it wins on resolve instead of requiring an upkeep (creates no drama on the board, kaput game is over). A better example of a one-card wincon would be Felidar Sovereign , which is legal, but you do have to get it into play somehow, which would require some amount of cards to get the mana. Even if you do find 1 card win cons boring, you're openly stating you wouldn't run an optimal card to win. Once again, definitely not min-maxing.
Sandwurm Convergence is a bad card dude. It costs 8 mana to give you a creature every turn and negate some attacks. When the format has all kinds of legal 1 and 2 mana cost tutors, and even more 2, 3, and 4 mana cost ways to win, 8 mana for a pillowfort card that doesn't guarantee immunity is not good. Its not even good in a format like standard or modern either, due to the high mana cost. Compare to Bitterblossom .
- Turn 2, you play BB
- Turn 3, you get first token (and 1 every turn after)
- Turn 4, you swing with 1 attacker for 1 damage dealt
- Turn 4, you swing with 2 attackers for 3 damage dealt
- Turn 5, you swing with 3 attackers for 6 damage dealt
- Turn 6, you swing with 4 attackers for 10 damage dealt
- Turn 7, you swing with 5 attackers for 15 damage dealt
- Turn 8, you swing with 6 attackers for 21 damage dealt
By the time you get to play Sandwurm Convergence, Bitterblossom has already dealt 21 damage. Sure, the 5/5 tokens are bigger and nice, but you get them faaaaaaaaar later than you get the BB tokens. This is part of the reason things with lower CMC are so much better. Speed is very important in MTG.
From a pillowfort perspective, Sandwurm Convergence still doesn't make sense. You even run Solitary Confinement but don't understand why that's such a better card than this one. If you play Idyllic Tutor into Solitary Confinement, you've spent 2 less mana and you STILL get a better effect. Even when these two abiliites of token creation and pillowfort are stapled together, the card just isn't worth the CMC.
The same idea goes for Phyrexian Arena and Honden of Seeing Winds . By turn 5 when you could play Honden, you've already drawn 2 cards with Arena. This is also why Dark Confidant is so expensive and is worlds ahead of Phyrexian Arena , even though it will usually cost you even more life. Having also lower CMC means you can also do multiple things. On turn 4, if you draw a Dark Confidant you can play it while also holding a Counterspell . The same is not true for Phyrexian Arena .
But what about multiple draws from multiple Hondens? That requires a greater number of cards from hand/deck and a waaaaay larger investment in mana. For 4 cards and 17 mana, there are all kinds of way better things you can do. I'd rather just play Mind Unbound and save the 3 other slots, even though that is also a bad card.
Counterbalance is a much better option than any of the other counter enchantments you're running. Unfortunately, you have 0 topdeck manipulation, so you're basically just crossing your fingers and hoping it works.
Relying on Sterling Grove or Privileged Position to protect you from Hive Mind is absurd when you run almost no tutors and very mediocre draw. When are you going to have both these out? If just one of them is out, it gets nuked first by removal, then the rest of your board follows suit. Hive Mind is bad the same way Mind's Dilation is bad, don't rely on your opponents to have certain cards in their decks to win for you.
You rely on about 3 different cards to win, none of them are even close to fast, and you have no way to reliably get them to hand or get them from the command zone. Even in battlecruiser casual EDH, most decks win or create a game winning board state by turn 10. Your game plan is topdeck well or lose. You need to get some better win conditions, or you're going to be losing a lot of games against anyone who has been playing longer than six months. I really don't know why you're writing a primer for a casual mish-mash of 99 cards either, you aren't doing much education on your card choices and I can see no reason someone would run this build over another K&T build. You aren't running optimal card choices, from your lands, to your ramp, to your draw, to your win cons, to your removal, to your pillowfort. This list is just another enchantress list stapled to K&T with almost no wincons and with a sub-optimal Primal Surge package stapled on that doesn't even guarantee a win on resolving.
1 year ago
I can't help thinking a way to untap Nebuchadnezzar to use his ability twice would be the way to take out problems. I'm always Commander focused not deck focused though.
1 year ago
Honden of Seeing Winds can be incredibly dangerous when you have more than 1-2 other shrines.
Imagine you have all 5 shrines in play, Honden of Infinite Rage will kill an opponent from 20 in 4 turns. During that time, you'd draw 23 cards.
Under most circumstances, this is fine, but if the opponent ever has more life than cards in your library, or creates planeswalkers that you need to spend an upkeep to burn, then you might run into problems.
1 year ago
Speaking of which, Trotticus, Joseph (friend I'm brewing this for) was actually, I shit you not, talking to me about how we wished Paradox Haze was a card. I have been playing this game for much longer than he has; where has this been all my life!? But I digress. Herald of the Pantheon... might remove the need for this much ramp, possibly allowing for some more stuff. Idk tho. We'll have to see. As to Eidolon of Blossoms, since I'm going blue now I guess, I'll be running Honden of Seeing Winds so not much need for it. Also Joe's brother runs Sphere of Safety and Joe hates it with all his soul.
So basically guys... time for a biiiiiig upgrade. Thank you so much for your input.
1 year ago
Here are my personal recommendations (with help from n8dm) for cards to add and cut from the deck. Let me know if you have any questions about cuts or recommendations.