|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Eternal Masters (EMA)||Uncommon|
|Champions of Kamigawa (CHK)||Uncommon|
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Honden of Infinite Rage
Legendary Enchantment — Shrine
At the beginning of your upkeep, Honden of Infinite Rage deals damage to target creature or player equal to the number of Shrines you control.
Honden of Infinite Rage Discussion
5 months ago
I love to min-max my deck building.
_However, I feel like the consistent card-draw stapled to her would make the deck too powerful and consistent. _
Estrid, the Masked is too good. There, I said it.
having a tutor in the command zone tends to make the games too consistent and predictable;
The second stipulation is that the deck is tuned for Primal Surge . With only 6 instant and sorceries in the deck including the surge itself, you should (approximately) get about 20 cards off of each Primal Surge. Since 1-card wincons are incredibly uninteresting as far as I'm concerned, I don't think the deck will reach a point where Primal Surge is the only instant or sorcery.
Probably the best card draw in the deck. Perhaps too good.
The amount of mana this card can produce for one mana can become unfair. Perhaps this should only be in cEDH.
I refuse to build 0 instant/sorcery Primal Surge . The idea of making it a 1-card wincon is uneventful to me. I'd much rather have the drama and variance of not knowing how many cards (or which cards) I am going to hit.
I don't think min-maxing means what you think it means. Intentionally not using cards because they are good or not building your deck a certain way because its too reliable for winning is the exact opposite of min-maxing. I will never understand the aversion of new players to winning, but I will review your deck in good faith nonetheless.
First, your land usage is definitely not optimal. You correctly identified the usefulness of fetches and duals for 4 color decks, but you chose not to run them (they are $$$ in real life dollars, so understandable). Regardless, you should prioritize lands that 1. Enter untapped and 2. Give access to the colors you need. A large number of your lands fail this metric.
Second, you run a number of cards that are 1. Expensive to cast and 2. Don't do much for the mana cost. Specifically, I am looking at Sandwurm Convergence Mind's Dilation , and all the Hondens. Sandwurm convergence is an underwhelming effect for a whopping 8 mana, stopping flyers is negligible because most EDH decks are built to win by combo. The 5/5 at your end step is nice, but the two effects combined are not worth the investment of 8 mana. Mind's Dilation is similarly heavy to cast at 7, but is even less worthwhile because it requires your opponents to do something before it does anything for you. You also aren't guaranteed to get value from it, because opponents can hit lands, they can hit spells you can't use (counterspells and removal come to mind). The hondens are bad because they require a heavy investment of mana and cards to start producing anything worthwhile. They also rob you of 4 deck slots that could go towards something more productive for winning. You are never going to get all 4 of the Hondens onto the board in a timely manner because your ramp cards are so low quality and you have almost no card tutors, plus slow and passive draws. Also no, 4 Hondens on turn 10 is not good.
Your interaction is. . . bad. Sunken Field will only work on bad players. Comboing it with untap effects would be interesting, but right now its just a very very very weak and predictable counterspell. You know how you are singing the praises of Telepathy ? You are giving your opponents the same information about your disruption while gaining no extra benefits from having it be in that form. Its also costs you 3 mana to use it the first time (2 to cast, and 1 more from tapping the land it enchants), meanwhile there are a whole host of 2 and 3 mana counterspells that are guaranteed to work. (even Cancel is better) Lilting Refrain is also very bad for very similar reasons. On top of telegraphing your play, it also can't counter a spell until a turn after you play it. It most likely won't be able to counter a spell until two or three turns after you play it. If you ran some recursion effects or proliferate effects, it might be salvageable, but currently its just really bad. Declaration of Naught is pretty bad too, its reusable against commanders, but its also costing you to counter one spell. Your only hand peek is Telepathy , and you run no blink effects to reset Declaration to abuse it.
I'm very confused by your Primal Surge choices. Designing your deck around Primal Surge working to not its full potential is just astonishing. Why even include it at all? Especially since you can actually lose from casting it, due to the nature of many enchantress effects that do not specify the word may for those draws. Casting a 10 mana spell should guarantee you are going to win, but it doesn't in this deck.
I feel similarly about Hive Mind . The potential for this card blowing up in your face is so high. Ideally, you pair this card with instants and sorceries that your opponents wouldn't want to cast at all. I understand you run a small instant/sorcery count, but that once again means you're relying on an opponent to help you get to your own win, otherwise you just wasted 6 mana on a card that does nothing with the other 98 cards you put in the deck. This card is never going to benefit you when you are ahead, it just means any piece of removal played becomes 3 pieces of removal against your board state.
Any cards you run with the words "gain life" on them should go. Also, how does this deck even win? Creature swings? Honden of Infinite Rage and the other Hondens then take 30 turns? Sandwurm Convergence then take 10 turns? Cast Primal Surge for half your deck then pass?
8 months ago
Hi Zequen! Thank you for your comment :)
Wow, that combo is neat! I may try it one day, actually I already have Havoc Festival in my collection!
You're right, I lack small creatures, so I'm considering addition of more Rakdos-enabling possibilities. Often I ramp pretty fast, so casting 5 or 6-mana-cost creatures isn't a problem. I also have a lot of draw to help me drawing more or less anything I want!
Your example of Curse of the Pierced Heart isn't good because it works only on enchanted player's turn, it should work on my turn to let me cast Rakdos, Lord of Riots . Honden of Infinite Rage would be better in that matter. I am focusing on methods that don't use additional mana resources, like Earthquake or Pestilence . I once used Nettle Drone and Gut Shot but I tried to remove all cards that would be not generic or flexible enough. Cryptolith Fragment Flip looks reasonable :)
I will consider adding Indulgent Tormentor , but Bloodgift Demon is better, and already present in my deck :)
In my opinion there is no such thing as too much mass removal :D It's just too good when your opponents are faster than you.
Xantcha, Sleeper Agent is interesting. I'll look for her in my friends collections! When it comes to Mana Geyser and Neheb, the Eternal I don't think I'd use that large amounts of red mana. My deck consists mostly of colorless and black creatures, and I don't think it would have big impact on my plays :)
Thank you a lot for your advice!
10 months ago
Cryptolith Fragment Flip is a card I forgot about - great tech for your general! Including that, you have about 6 cards of CMC Three or less to help you get Rakdos deployed. I like Shepherd of Rot better than Pyrohemia just to add to your count. If you need more cards like this Honden of Infinite Rage, Granite Shard, and Chalice of Life Flip don't die to a Wrath. Leechridden Swamp and Piranha Marsh are other suggestions. Shizo, Death's Storehouse helps in any black deck where the Commander wants to attack.
Shadowblood Ridge I dislike since it forces you to contort your tapping of lands to get the mana you need. Signets are fine because they're acceleration, but playing this land any time before turn 4 seems a bit risky with double-R or double-B spells.
The deck seems light on removal (both targeted and sweepers). I'm guessing you intend to be aggressive and hope for the best the entire game since you have no haste, hexproof, nor shroud. Flamekin Village and Hanweir Battlements help. Also be careful with Herald of Leshrac... don't want to lose a few friends...
Overall I assess you have a very optimistic game plan.
1 year ago
Honden of Seeing Winds can be incredibly dangerous when you have more than 1-2 other shrines.
Imagine you have all 5 shrines in play, Honden of Infinite Rage will kill an opponent from 20 in 4 turns. During that time, you'd draw 23 cards.
Under most circumstances, this is fine, but if the opponent ever has more life than cards in your library, or creates planeswalkers that you need to spend an upkeep to burn, then you might run into problems.
1 year ago
Here are my personal recommendations (with help from n8dm) for cards to add and cut from the deck. Let me know if you have any questions about cuts or recommendations.
Let's start with permanents:
Now for instants and sorceries:
Now to recommend some cards to cut:
1 year ago
If you're not going to run Honden of Cleansing Fire, Honden of Night's Reach, Honden of Infinite Rage, and Honden of Life's Web, you should probably replace Honden of Seeing Winds with Staff of Nin -you know, for the utility.
1 year ago
To the sorrow of all, you did not include the Hondens.
I wouldn't call them "good" per se, but they have a lot of flavor. (Honden of Cleansing Fire, Honden of Infinite Rage, Honden of Life's Web, Honden of Night's Reach, and Honden of Seeing Winds) (also Anger of the Gods)
1 year ago
Ga, as seguintes cartas eu aconselho a tirar: Akki Drillmaster - Voce nao tem bichao pra dar impeto; Akki Raider - Voce nao destroi lands;Akki Underling - Seu deck e rapido, nunca vai ter sete ou mais cartas na mao; Orochi Sustainer e Sakura-Tribe Scout - Voce nao precisa gerar muita mana num deck rapido; Soratami Cloud Chariot - Muito caro, foge da estrategia e o efeito e meio bosta; Kumano's Blessing, Lifegift e Seed the Land - horrvel; Blinding Powder - Nao faz sentido com o deck (voce quer matar rapido, nao controlar);NO SIDE: Dense Canopy e Sunder from Within - perfeito, os outros 3 - horrivel;
Cartas que voce pode colocar: Akki Avalanchers - aggro, warrior e fortinho, apesar de suicida; Blood Rites - poderia ser bem util com tantas criaturas;First Volley - complemento de dano e arcana para unir;Soulblast - Pode ser... Glacial Ray - dano mais apelao do PB Kamigawa (une e e barato);Goblin Cohort - muito apelaozinho, funciona com bastante criaturas;Honden of Infinite Rage e Honden of Life's Web - olhas os combinhos com um monte de criaturinhas e dano;Kashi-Tribe Elite - Protege suas cobras lendarias e ainda e um guerreiro cobra fortinho, cheio de fuleragem;Kodama's Might - Pump verde indispensavel, une em arcana ainda;Lure - Kill condition facil com tantas criaturas;Oni of Wild Places - Poderia ser um bichao pro deck;Path of Anger's Flame - Olha esse pump geral, arcano...como que tu nao coloca isso num aggro vermelho?Patron of the Akki - Patronos sao muito apeloes: este aqui e perfeito pro seu deck;Sakura-Tribe Elder - Esse cara pode atacar, bloquear e ainda pegar um land em resposta: apelaozissimo;Serpent Skin - Regenerar pode ser muito util num deck aggro; Stampeding Serow - Barato, forte, alem de voltar cobras pra mao pra combar com as Sosuke's Summons;No-Dachi - Gosto muito desta kataninha...Manriki-Gusari - Pode ser MAIN, pode ser SIDE, para aggro e muito bom;Shuko - Pumpinho rapidao;TERRENO DUPLO Pinecrest Ridge: se tem, por que nao usar? Eu usaria.
Agora voce pensa e acerta ai... faca suas escolhas, ajeite a curva pelos graficos e try again. Olhe de novo no Gatherer se achar necessario. Veja o custo total das cartas. Da pra deixar ele bem legal.
- Kamigawa Planebattle Champion: Kyoki's Army
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