Attempt for a new format
The Kitchen Table forum
Posted on July 17, 2020, 2 p.m. by GoblinElectromancer
I have an idea for a new format
Rules:
Decks have to have exactly 75 cards. You can only use instants, sorceries, and land cards. You start at 30 life. This is a non-rotating format so you have access to any cards. Other rules are the same.
Here are two decks I tried to make for it. The mana bases are super clunky because they are just first drafts.
Current banlist: Spellchaser Banlist
Making the minimum deck size 75 will make combo decks slightly weaker and hopefully give other types of decks a chance.
Ideas?
SynergyBuild says... #5
What's the name? I made a list, I'll write it up in T/O!
July 17, 2020 2:56 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #7
[GoblinElectromancer's Format] - Synergy
Custom*
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It's a midrange control list aiming to use Muddle the Mixture and Miscast esque cards to an amazing effect, as well as a Life from the Loam engine to run the card advantage the deck needs to keep afloat, winning off of a Field of the Dead setup!
July 17, 2020 3:09 p.m.
Personal Tutor and Gamble not being on the list seems pretty questionable. Mental Misstep would also be a card I'd ban. All my non-blue decks would probably run it. Same could got for Gitaxian Probe. Brainstorm, Ponder and Preordain seems to advantage blue waaaay too much I think.
July 17, 2020 6:33 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #10
The best end game wincons so far: Angel's Grace/Ad Nauseam, Field of the Dead or Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle with Scapeshift or on their own. Dark Depths/Thespian Stage also is amazing in the format. Remember to use manlands, like Creeping Tar Pit or whatever you find fun. I know I'll look at Mutavault heavily for the format. Tokens can also do well, Commence the Endgame seems great!
Engines outside of it that can grind games are Mystic Sanctuary and Cryptic Command/Tragic Lesson/Daze/Gush, Life from the Loam and Horizon Canopy/Tranquil Thicket (Or any other cycling lands, but honestly Lftl works amazing on it's own).
What cards are really good to know about? Unsummon and effects like it should really be good, as all non-land permanents are tokens. Sinkhole and land destruction must be realized to be a very powerful effect, and Thoughtseize style discard is great!
Remember that Negate is just a cheaper Cancel and Miscast is a cheaper Mana Leak. Additionally Muddle the Mixture can both be a Counterspell or a Life from the Loam, and can be returned with Mystic Sanctuary.
Veil of Summer, Lightning Bolt, Silence, Stifle, Miscast, Flusterstorm, Dovin's Veto, Surgical Extraction & Cling to Dust (Amazing against Loam decks and some Sanctuary decks, as well as shutting off backup combos from recursive loops)
Currently Noxious Revival, Echoing Truth, Divert/Misdirection (against discard and burn), most discard, burn, Merchant Scroll, Entreat the Angels (Works well with Brainstorm, Mystic Sanctuary, etc.), and more are all strong.
Overall, it seems like a format where blue dominated, with green engines and tutors like Crop Rotation or Sylvan Scrying can set up the easy combos. Entomb for Life from the Loam, maybe Mission Briefing can do well too.
The best decks seem to be Bant Control, Simic Scapshift (sultai?), Sultai Loam Depths, Golgari Depths (Hymn to Tourach style list), Azorius Control (Entreat Sanctuary style) and Dimir+ Control (No idea the wincon, but a 2-4 color list, aimed at Miscast, Cling to Dust, and Thoughtseize as a base). A ramp build for field outside of Scapeshift, perhaps running it as only a backup, or perhaps a Sultai Loam Field Ramp list could work.
Sadly if you memorize the 6ish real wincons, the 4 bases, and understand the few counterplays the format is solved
July 17, 2020 8:03 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #11
Okay, did the geometric testing, I was done 6 minutes before writing this comment, which I started at 10:28, that means I think I solved the base of the format in 7 hours and 5 minutes.
I tested the shells against eachtlother, the most consistent was the GU list, after tuning the other lists against it, it was easy to break the simple Life from the Loam, Growth Spiral, Field of the Dead list. All you needed was a Cling to Dust or Surgical Extraction Luckily Extraction meant every color had the option. Both also got around Veil of Summer, which is huge in the format. What else gets around it? Divert and Misdirection, who cards that break the Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, Hymn to Tourach, Sinkhole piles that were beating UG the most, and were a Golgari Depths list. Before Divert, Golgari lists basically just had to fight Veil of Summer, often with Mental Missteps.
This meant UG could side in the redirects and crush the Black lists. I tried Sultai, so Flusterstorm, Miscast, etc. could disrupt the combo, but sadly they couldn't hit the mana consistently enough anymore. Even when they did the deck was sloppy. A countered Crop Rotation was really bad, and Mental Misstepping one was such a tempo swing, it was almost game over. Most lists could use mana on end steps pretty easily, UW control could at least Brainstorm, UG could Growth Spiral or crack a Waterlogged Grove to dredge a Life from the Loam. Black builds could Cling to Dust to draw. Decks had the means to use tempo, easily turning tempo into massive swings. Mystic Sanctuary is huge for UG and UW builds, Entreat the Angels needs it to function, and Cryptic Command/Deprive loops are big.
Muddle the Mixture let UG have too much redundancy, grab a Loam to grind? On it! Be a Echoing Truth to wipe a Dark Depths token or Field of the Dead army? On it. Use it to get a Living Wish to grab a Field of the Dead from your sideboard if your opponent Surgical Extractioned all of the ones in your deck.
It is an absurd card. It can be looped with Mystic Sanctuary. It can get it if it finds a Sylvan Scrying or Living Wish.
Then all that is needed is backup for this stupid deck.
Mystic Sanctuary for Cryptic Command, opponent on Depths? Echoing Truth, want better? Why not steal it with Archmage's Charm. Stupid. The deck was considering without that upside. Field of Ruin, Miscast, Veil of Summer, a sideboard of lands for Living Wish and more choice cards. Gitaxian Probe, great to judge when to do anything, if you are ever afraid of a Veil of Summer, target yourself. Force of Negation can exile opposing Life from the Loams, Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Growth Spiral, etc.
Now onto if they have an answer to tokens, because at this point Lumbering Falls is our best backup. UW gets Celestial Colonnade, which straight up wins in a fight. So we play a Hallowed Fountain and run a couple Colonnade's ourselves. Easy. Plus, unlike UW, we have Loam to recur our Colonades.
Now Bant, with a light splash for colonnade just beat everything. I just found variation of it could be tuned to beat itself, but worse against the field. The deck was evil, super gross to pilot against, felt even worse to play.
It was perfect. I'll write it up and post it.
July 17, 2020 11:02 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #12
July 17, 2020 11:21 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #13
Hmmmm I really want to build white/blue lifegain/mill, with an infinite combo like the Cryptic Command+Mystic Sanctuary to survive until the opponent decks out.
Also, are un-cards and the playtest cards from mystery boosters legal?
August 31, 2020 6:05 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #14
VampDemigod Sadly, Cryptic Command + Mystic Sanctuary is definitely not infinite, you can only draw Cryptic every other card.
August 31, 2020 6:06 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #15
SynergyBuild That took me a minute to think about, then my internet crashed. Still, couldn’t you do infinite tap with 2 Cryptic commands? You’d need to start while one CC was still on top, but that’s by no means impossible.
The play I envision: Cast cc1 on opponents turn, select tap and 1 other. Draw cc2. Play MS. Return cc1 to library top Opponents turn cast cc2. Select tap and bounce. Draw cc1 Play MS...
August 31, 2020 6:34 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #16
VampDemigod only if you have a thing to counter each turn. Against that combo, any opponent would sand bag cards and play them all at once, for a big turn.
You'd need a terrible opponent to do otherwise.
August 31, 2020 6:36 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #17
Oh, you misunderstood! I wasn’t intending to use it to counter spells! I was going to use the third mode before combat so they couldn’t attack me with token armies. Admittedly, I’d need to hold up counterspells to protect it, but still. And if they had no creatures, THEN I would select a different mode or refrain from casting it.
Also ignore my earlier statement about one having to be on top, it doesn’t. You just need two.
August 31, 2020 6:45 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #18
Yeah I could just boardwipe, but then they wouldn’t be as frustrated.
August 31, 2020 6:45 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #19
VampDemigod Ngl, I don't think you realize that creatures don't matter much in this format.
August 31, 2020 6:48 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #20
DeinoStinkus true, but remember that Truth cannot hit manlands like a Fatal Push or Settle the Wreckage could, which is particularly important in a format of Lumbering Falls, Mishra's Factorys, and Celestial Colonnades.
August 31, 2020 7:15 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #21
I mean life gain spells can outpace most damaging spells, so life gain should be a great way to go.
SynergyBuild says... #2
How many of each card can be run?
July 17, 2020 2:38 p.m.