|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Zendikar Expeditions (EXP)||Mythic Rare|
|Modern Masters 2015 Edition (MM2)||Rare|
|Worldwake (WWK)||Mythic Rare|
Combos Browse all
Eye of Ugin
Colorless Eldrazi spells you cast cost less to cast.
, : Search your library for a colorless creature card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Eye of Ugin Discussion
1 month ago
Good points DuTogira/others. Land cards seem to be easy enough to tutor and tough to interact with to a degree. I can certainly see Dark Depths still being playable as a one of. (along with other previously mentioned cards).
As far as cdkime's suggestion about doing a Google search "[card name here] ban" the top themes i read in various forms/threads/articles were in regards to power (angry player: "That cards broken!) and metagame diversity (caw-blade vs caw-blade vs caw-blade).
Cards that we have recently talked about now such as Birthing Pod / Eye of Ugin / Dark Depths and so on are all super great/powerful cards in there own right... but they all have there own homes/decks. I for one wouldn't have any interest in running pod/eye of ugin in my Grixis Deaths shadow variant/deck no matter how much of a novelty that would be. Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle was a card that was on the initial banned list and unbanning it outright didnt ruin the format. It isn't exactly easy to slip into every deck or even already competitive decks. Scapeshift was/is a thing, but is far from dominant or oppressive.
Right/wrong or indifferent I think ive made my position on abilities to overcome a card/strategy clear... however; When it come to the argument of banning/restricting cards for the sake of "diversity"... some cards have a super tough time meeting that criteria such as Chrome Mox / Mental Misstep ; simply because there doesn't seem like any reason to not run a full playset or a minimum of 1 in a restricted format.
I do question however in the case of a restricted format that just because we would see 9/10 decks running Gitaxian Probe / Chrome Mox (as arbitrary examples) that this would result in seeing the same decks vs the same decks at the next GP/pro tour.... i also think it's also worth noting in this scenario that unlike vintage Chalice of the Void could still be ran as a full playset.
2 months ago
ToolmasterOfBrainerd - thanks for the clarification on these. I took a pretty long break from Magic, so was not overly familiar with how some of these cards had been played.
I disagree, however, with your analysis of Eye of Ugin . Rather than show why it would be fine to restrict Eye, I think your analysis goes to my point. Even when it was being run primarially as a one-of, Wizards still coins it powerful enough to be worthy of banning. Your example just goes to show how degenerate a single card can be once obtained.
2 months ago
With all due respect, several of those analyses are almost certainly wrong.
Blazing Shoal would see no 1-of play. It's good as a 4-of because of blazing infect. It's not good outside of that deck.
Eye of Ugin is the one example of when a restricted list would be good for the format. Tron ran eye as a 1-of in the days of yore. In a long game they have enough land tutors to find it after they've assembled Tron and then use it to tutor Wurmcoil Engine every other turn or Emrakul, the Aeons Torn when they have enough mana and just win. Tron lost this piece of tech when it got banned, and nowadays they do something similar with Sanctum of Ugin , but it's not as good. I said this card restricted would be good, because it would have been a banning which hurt eldrazi without hurting another deck that wasn't abusing it. Tron is doing fine without eye, but collateral damage with the banlist does exist.
Hypergenesis is way too slow outside of its dedicated combo deck. The deck would exist and be super glass cannon and stupid in the format.
Mental Misstep : I think literally every deck would play 1 copy this card. There's no reason not to. This card isn't situational because 1-drops are everywhere in almost every deck. And the chance of having it turn 1 is worth it.
Second Sunrise would only be played in eggs if that deck can even function with only 1 copy. Nothing else would ever play it.
Summer Bloom was only played in Amulet Titan to make absurd amounts of mana. They'd play their 1 copy and nobody else would ever play it.
Otherwise I think your analysis was pretty good.
2 months ago
For fun let's go through the entire Modern banlist and evaluate card-by-card what would happen if they were on a restricted list.
Ancient Den and the other Artifact Lands - these are a bit special, since you could run 5 total artifact lands in the deck. This might have implications for a potential Affinity deck.
Birthing Pod - this requires a dedicated build-around, which is really not worth it if you can't reliably hit the centerpiece that makes your deck work. Restricting Birthing Pod is tantamount to a ban.
Blazing Shoal - if you draw into this card, you're going to have a huge advantage. This will be one of those "broken cards" that will end games fairly quickly out of dumb luck.
Cloudpost - not worth running if the Locuses are all Restricted.
Deathrite Shaman - Drawing into this card gives you a huge advantage against a number of different archetypes.
Dread Return - There are enough graveyard shenanigans with Dredge that drawing this card is likely to net you your best creature and your second best creature. It's also pretty easy to enable even with one copy, as you can Dredge for it and sacrifice some creatures.
Eye of Ugin - another dumb luck card--you draw this, you're two turns ahead if that's the deck you're playing.
Gitaxian Probe - banned in Legacy, restricted in Vintage, so it's pretty clear this is a scary card. You get to see what your opponent has in-hand, as well as replace your own spell, all for the cost of two life.
Glimpse of Nature - Another dumb-luck card that will win you the game if drawn by quickly refilling your hand.
Golgari Grave-Troll - Again, extreme card advantage if you draw it, putting you vastly ahead.
Hypergenesis - Every Green Tron (or whatever the Eldrazi deck for the format is) will run this, and will win whenever they play it.
Krark-Clan Ironworks - combo piece, restriction is similar to ban.
Mental Misstep - too situational to only run one copy of; you need it early and you need it when you need it, the chances you have it at an appropriate time when you only have a single copy makes this card not worth running.
Rite of Flame - if you draw this, it puts you a whole turn ahead, and that is often enough for Storm or Burn.
Second Sunrise - there are enough ways to dump things into the graveyard (including the inevitability of just playing the game) that whoever gets this would have a significant and sudden advantage.
Skullclamp - if Elves or other weanies draw this card, it's game over.
Splinter Twin - combo piece, likely restriction is similar to ban.
Stoneforge Mystic - Might be fine as a one-of.
Summer Bloom - puts you incredibly far ahead.
Umezawa's Jitte - Does a considerable number of things, so will put whoever gets it ahead.
Others might disagree with that analysis, but I think it's pretty solid for shooting from the hip. The cards on the Modern banlist would either (a) be supremely powerful if you drew them, either winning you the game outright or enabling victory through hyper-effecient ramp or card draw (card draw itself generating a chance to find more broken cards), or (b) part of hyper-efficient combos, and thus not worth running if you only get one copy.
2 months ago
this has nothing to do with the thread... but I get the sense you're relatively new to competitive card games as a whole. A lot of your arguments center around "well x card is fine because its answered by x other card" but there's a huge factor that's missing from your analysis: tempo.
The basic idea of tempo is this:
Let's build a hypothetical game of Hypergenesis v Eldrazi. The Eldrazi player plays a Chalice of the Void for 0 to counter Hypergenesis . Luckily, the Hypergenesis player is running Kolaghan's Command so he has an answer!
By your logic, this should mean that hypergenesis won't struggle with Chalice of the Void , because Eldrazi has a card and Hypergenesis has an answer.
Here's the flaw in your logic that reveals your (probable) inexperience. Chalice of the Void cost the Eldrazi player 0 mana. Kolaghan's Command cost 3 mana. That means that the Eldrazi player came out of that exchange up by 3 mana, which is a form of "Tempo" as it's labelled. The eldrazi player could resolve anything from a Matter Reshaper to a Reality Smasher (if Eye of Ugin is in play) using that 3 mana. Let's investigate what Hypergenesis could have done with that 3 mana instead. It could have played Violent Outburst cascading into Hypergenesis and WON THE GAME!
That's tempo, and the big issue with a lot of your logic is that you don't account for it. Another, more realistic example with less dire consequences:
An eldrazi player drops an Eye of Ugin . they already had a waste in play. The eldrazi player gets to play a Matter Reshaper . His opponent drops an Alpine Moon naming Eye of Ugin . Here's the "tempo breakdown". The Eldrazi player just came out 3 mana ahead AGAIN. he got one mana out of Eye of Ugin discounting the Matter Reshaper as compared with a regular land. That's +1 mana. Alpine Moon turned Eye of Ugin into a land which taps for mana. That's +2 total mana. The Eldrazi player's opponent had to spend on Alpine Moon which he couldn't spend on something else. Thats +3 total mana. HUGE tempo swing in the eldrazi player's favor, which means that this interaction is actually favorable for eldrazi. By your logic however, The eldrazi player's opponent SHOULD have come out ahead because his card "answered" the eldrazi player's card.
If you still aren't understanding this... tempo can be a complicated concept. My honest recommendation is to play magic as frequently as possible, and maybe get into competitive Hearthstone for a while before you get fed up with Hearthstone's stagnant metas and give up on the game. For all its flaws and stagnation, Hearthstone is a great learning ground for core concepts of competitive card games (sequencing, value, tempo, win-conditions, etc).
What I'm getting at is this: Sometimes it costs your opponent more to answer your card than it costs you to play it. In that situation, it doesn't matter that your card got answered, because you came out ahead on that exchange. That's the core of why Eldrazi decks are broken: They are tempo monstrosities that are nigh on impossible to stop IN A FAVORABLE MANNER.
2 months ago
Eye of Ugin / Umezawa's Jitte / Cloudpost are the only cards i saw as a common theme in eldrazi brews that are currently banned (i would have to look deeper into that though)... so far when discussing eldrazi those cards at least havent really popped on the radar/discussion by name....mainly Chalice of the Void which is interesting.
caw blade was just something said earlier in this thread in in regards to a deck being unable to be hated out/kept in check....i respectfully disagree...i think there would be very very strong decks and certainly miricles and eldrazi are among them.... but i feel that there is opportunity for brewers to prey on them... whether its a super jund/manaless dredge i really couldnt say.
2 months ago
i beg to differ lukas96 that the very point of discussing this is so that better minds/brewers in the community like SynergyBuild/ToolmasterOfBrainerd could contribute to the conversation or even go above and beyond and and playtest/theorycraft what no ban list in Modern would look like.... cuz initially i was met with
"Miracles is a deck that with Top and the other cantrips, especially with a way to counter a spell turn 1 and resolve top allows you to obliterate any opposing deck.
There would be no other deck.
Change my mind."
and then the conversation evolved from there with people thinking that Through the Breach or Caw-Blade would be too oppressive.... and now Eldrazi is the subject matter... yet little is being said about how Eye of Ugin is what is making it so oppressive.
its just really interesting stuff....and again i think Modern would be a fun and interesting format to play in even without a ban list.
2 months ago
"if it looks like a duck... quacks like a duck...".... no Chalice of the Void is certainly not a permission spell that goes on the stack; but i think its obvious that its role in anyones deck is similar to Blood Moon in the sense that they are Restricting and denying resources and actions of the opponent... people who run Chalice/Moon build their decks around them....and in time the meta adapts to this.
when it comes to actual tournament results...i dont think one event is enough to be conclusive...so all anyone can do is theory craft. This is where i was going with "Aggro beats Control, Control beats Combo, Combo beats Aggro" fundamentals as well as making a case for new cards thats have been printed since Eye of Ugin with Ceremonious Rejection / Disdainful Stroke .... Alpine Moon ... Damping Sphere Infernal Reckoning and more....
with these things in mind i dont think decks are going to have to go "All-in" to beat eldrazi" anymore then just being aware it exists on the competitive scene like anything else.... Miricles placed 2nd in the actual tournement/event in a field of eldrazi...
Eye of Ugin is powerful but there are several accessible answers to it in the same way.....take jund for example....hand disruption with Thoughtseize ...easy enough to throw in Alpine Moon and Abrupt Decay / Assassin's Trophy .....there is just so much removal...like a lot of removal... to be able Fulminator Mage /Fulminate a land, Bloodbraid Elf /Cascade into Kolaghan's Command /K-Command, get Fulminator back.... im just not convinced that eldrazi cant be dealt with.
as far as the mulligan scenario is concerned... Serum Powder exists...but nobody is always gonna have there best cards every game...thats why its a game.
Eye of Ugin occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%