Karn, the Great Creator
Legendary Planeswalker — Karn
Artifact abilities of artifacts your opponents control can't be activated.
+1: Until your next turn, up to one target noncreature artifact become an artifact creature with power and toughness equal to the amount of artifacts equal to their converted mana cost
-2: You may choose an artifact card you own from outside the game or in exile, reveal that card and put it to your hand
|Have (3)||kpral , gildan_bladeborn ,|
|Want (3)||The_Raging_Bagel , BSwCDo , WayneKerr|
Printings View all
|War of the Spark (WAR)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Karn, the Great Creator Discussion
5 hours ago
Really solid decklist, stax and Heliod are for sure the way to go. I only have a few suggestions that you might want to consider. Aetherflux Reservoir does infinite damage with Karn, the Great Creator + Heliod, Sun-Crowned. I also like Blind Obedience as some stax and okay life gain. Mask of Memory and Well of Lost Dreams go a long way for card draw in a mono-white deck. I would also include Castle Ardenvale over a plains.
Selfless Spirit would help with the board wipes the person above mentioned.
10 hours ago
squonk76 glad you loved it! When I first built the deck, I was thinking about Karn, the Great Creator or Ashiok, Dream Render as a way to shut off the claw, but the synergy with the rest of the deck wasn't there. I guess you play a lot of Emry, Lurker of the Loch? She's a pretty fun Brawl Commander on Arena as well.
12 hours ago
1 day ago
Hey thanks for testing! Lantern has always really seemed to have issues with burn and mill in general. I have since added Witchbane Orb to my sideboard to combat burn/mill type effects. It's also fetchable by Karn, the Great Creator. Glad SSG worked out for it's purpose!
1 day ago
As some of you may be aware, the combo of Dockside Extortionist is used alongside Temur Sabertooth to generate infinite mana, usually in 4 or 5 color shells with a commander as an outlet for winning. The gist of the loop is to create 5 Treasure tokens from Dockside, then use 4 of the tokens to bounce and replay Dockside from the Sabertooth.
This combo has been covered in a few places before, but I keep seeing it! So lets dive into why I personally think this combo should be avoided.
1. Players can scoop
The single biggest reason not to run this combo for winning.
- 104.3a A player can concede the game at any time. A player who concedes leaves the game immediately. That player loses the game.
Conceding is an action that doesn't use the stack, and can immediately stop your combo from executing. Imagine a scenario in which you have 3 opponents, with 5 artifacts/enchantments split among them with a 2/2/1 split (so two opponents have 2 and one opponent has 1). With Sabertooth on the board, you play Dockside to start your loop. An opponent who is knowledgeable of the combo with 2 artifacts/enchantments decides to scoop. Now, instead of winning, your combo is going to be mana negative and no longer works.
But Dingus isn't that unsportsmanlike?
Ethics aside, scooping at will is an action other players can take. Relying on your opponents to act in good faith is a losing strategy. Also consider that there are quite a large number of spiteful players, a problem exacerbated by losing. I can think of more than one game I've seen someone revel in their role of playing Kingmaker (deciding who wins after they lose)
2. Dockside relies on opponent's board state
Relying on your opponent's having a certain board state to execute your combo makes it much more fragile. Even if you're holding both A + B of your combo, having to wait until your opponent's assemble a certain board state means you may end up losing with both pieces available for use.
Also: artifact/enchantment removal in response to the trigger is another vulnerability for this combo. Seeing 5 qualified permanents on the board and having one or two removed puts you under the threshold.
3. Treasure tokens require a tap and activation, and an ETB to be created
Much more minor than the other points, but still a reason. ETB tapped cards see play, especially Root Maze Blind Obedience and Manglehorn. There are a handful of other ones too, like Kismet which are more niche. There are also cards that stop artifact activations, namely Stony Silence and Null Rod but also Karn, the Great Creator. The effects that turn off ETB triggers, namely Hushbringer Hushwing Gryff and Torpor Orb all stop this combo as well.
Counterpoint: Both pieces have high enough independent quality to be worth running
Dockside Extortionist is treated for the most part like a red ritual. Temur Sabertooth has lots of application for resetting valuable ETB effects or saving creatures from removal. A large argument for running this combo is that many decks would want to run both of these cards anyways, and slot efficiency is saved by relying on it for a combo.
I acknowledge this, but wholeheartedly believe that Dockside is much weaker than people realize. Most importantly, the two biggest decks to consider in the EDH meta currently are skewed more towards creatures than artifacts in terms of mana ramp. While these decks do indeed pack artifacts and enchantments, they aren't as prevalent as creatures. Furthermore, the biggest combos in the format currently with Flash Hulk and Fish Consultation don't run artifacts or enchantments, and are cost effective enough where the pilot doesn't need to build a massive rock board state to execute the combo.
Do you consider this to be a viable combo for winning? Despite my opinion, I'm certainly interested in gathering more information or perspectives on the combo.
2 days ago
I'd consider adding Karn, the Great Creator, both for flavour and function. In fact, it comboes with Mycosynth Lattice, locking your opponents from tapping lands for mana or activating any kind of ability of permanents they may have already on board.
If you put a Mycosynth Lattice in your sideboard and your playgroup/LGS allows for wishboards, you may as well make Karn, the Great Creator able to fetch in your hand the other piece needed for the combo.
6 days ago
cPute thanks for leaving a comment! I appreciate the love, artifacts need to be kept in check! The deck's big finishers are Arcbound Ravager or Bane of Progress once effects like Mycosynth Lattice are on the board. Once everything is an artifact, we can go all-in and finish the opponents off with a big creature after destroying everything they own. We can also use Karn, the Great Creator to stop their lands for tapping for mana. There a couple of artifact tutors like Inventors' Fair and Ring of Three Wishes to help us get all the pieces we need.
1 week ago
I do think that Karn, the Great Creator could be argued for as a golem for the purposes of the argument above, but I, personally, would be a lot less tilted by having an opponent or two 'geddoned by Karn, Silver Golem than by a famous prison combo. Seems to undercut the point of playing a jank tribe.