Draw cards equal to the number of cards in target opponent's hand.
Rebound (If you cast this spell from your hand, exile it as it resolves. At the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile without paying its mana cost.)
|Have (3)||Mortiferus_Rosa , , metalmagic|
Printings View all
|Rise of the Eldrazi (ROE)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Recurring Insight occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%
Recurring Insight Discussion
3 weeks ago
AlwaysSleepy If you can't understand why I would point out when a 0 decks 1 post account logs in after two years to call me a fucktard, then there isn't much more to discuss on that point.
As far as whether or not you suck, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. I enjoy it when people with less or more experience post, as long as its discussing cards or linking new ones.
As far as building Urza midrange versus artifact focused, yes I understand why the choices are made. This just keeps coming back to some basic facts though. The commander makes mana from artifacts, and then uses lots of mana to get free spells. Running 12 counterspells is going to mess with Urza activations. In a vacuum, a counterspell is going to be better than a trinisphere, but do you know what card the deck always has access to, every single game, from turn 1? Urza! What does Urza do? Give mana from artifacts, and use mana to get free spells. Do you know what free spells are unfortunate to get from Urza activations? Counterspells!
To respond to your card comments
Legacy's Allure - I'm glad we are in agreement that this card should go.
Homeward Path - This card is very common as tech in Selvala and Yisan decks. Gilded Drake is a very popular card that can go into most competitive decks with blue as a piece of removal. Both Yisan and Selvala are extremely commander dependent while being mono colored, with the Crop Rotation already there in many builds. Just because the card is not run in the Shaper list does not mean the card does not see play, it is tech that shows up. Since the card makes those decks cry big fat tears when it is resolved, it goes in. Which brings us to
Pithing Needle and friends. There are enough of these effects and they are so rancid for this deck that you must be aware of them when you build. It is simply asinine to ignore how dire this card resolving is for this deck. The bigger problem with these types of cards is that this deck runs so little removal and places all emphasis on counterspells. As far as Needle appearing or not, just because it doesn't show up in a big name brewer list doesn't mean the card isn't played. I have seen many competitive commander decks slot this card. It is a strong hate card against many commanders, the card that everyone always has access to (if they run Homeward Path lol). This list crumples to turn 1 Pithing Needle and it serves as proof of what the card can do. 1 mana and 1 card to lock out a player from winning is significantly better than a counterspell. The card is mana denial against uncracked fetches (they can't crack in response to the naming), it hoses entire commanders, its great against the random planeswalkers that show up, its amazing against the random Animatou deck that showed up, it shuts off so many infinite combos and is such a strong answer that can go in any deck. P.S. it could even go into an Urza build
Aether Spellbomb - My thoughts exactly. Goes in for Allure
Recurring Insight - I can believe that anyone who has resolved it has won. There are caveats to that statement though. You're giving up big opportunity cost as you could have another card in that slot doing something else before 6 mana. It is also hard to protect it resolving, because it costs 6 mana. Let me use an analogy to make one last point. Just because I won by tutoring from Diabolic Tutor does not mean that Demonic Tutor is the same. You can run sub-optimal cards that lead to winning, that category would most likely encompass 99+% of decks made.
Mishra's Workshop - This card once again used to show flaws in deckbuilding. The commander focuses on artifacts. This deck doesn't have an artifact density high enough to run Workshop and put it to use. It runs 19 artifacts. This card and the commander make big mana for or from artifacts. After the lands, there are 68 slots. 19 are artifacts. This is another overall design flaw rather than weakness between the card and the commander.
Howling Mine - I agree that this card has risk associated with playing it. This is why timing is crucial. If played when Urza is on the board, you are able to advance meaningfully with an extra and card every turn for and 1 card. Howling Mine isn't great in a vacuum, but once again it goes really well with that one card we always have access to. Even if later Urza is removed, we got advantage from it first and we got it earlier. Giving all your opponents 1 extra card (so 3 total) on turn 5 is negated by getting an extra card for yourself on turn 3 and 4. Getting access to the cards earlier for us is worthwhile even if on a later turn our opponents are collectively getting 3 cards to our 3 cards. Timing is just required to make this card effective. I find it hilarious that this list realizes the benefit in running Winter Orb and Static Orb but glances over the same synergy with Howling Mine. Do you see how those cards also hurt you without your commander?
Trinisphere - Its totally not cut, just not in the list. The authors can put flowery words next to it but this card should be an auto include. Not having it here makes me question why.
Ensnaring Bridge - Not the best possible include but worth a consider if the deck is more artifact centric. Can hose down Tymna and also some win cons. Urza plays well with a small hand and a fatty board.
As far as "You're just going to get flashed on" I'm not advocating for eliminating counterspells completely. It could easily go down to 8 and you will still see counters in your opener. The forgiving mulligan rules of multiplayer with the added new London Mulligan makes it easy to go back for one if you see yourself sitting across from TnT.
Expedition Map - Leads to Tabernacle and leads to Inventor's Fair. You can use to go to Academy Ruins to plop back on top to continue to toolbox lands. Its a tutor in a relevant type that can become an engine in games where you have more space. In more artifact centric builds you can extend more into non-basic lands as fetch targets, because you will need less blue for counterspells and 6 mana draw spells and Legacy's Allure.
Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth is a usable combo in certain contexts. Gonna keep going back to this idea that we always have Urza in the command zone as being important to the development of the deck. Urza gives us A LOT OF MANA. Rings has a great effect, but needs A LOT OF MANA. See where I'm going here? When we get Rings activations onto fetches, we are double thinning and ramping ourselves, but we're also priming the deck for BETTER URZA ACTIVATIONS. You also get infinite mana loops with Codex Shredder and any card that goes to GY like a spell. Basalt is definitely a downgrade from Grim, but Rings is such an upgrade from Power Artifact for usefulness outside combo and mana isn't as much of an issue in Urza so I think its worthwhile.
As far as the rest of what you wrote, yeah nice dude this is a $4000 durdle list and you are out here defending it. These brewers are so isolated in their own meta they make absurd card choices and overall deckbuilding decisions. Yeah this list is trash dude, and my comments about people being sheep are funnier with every reply. Why are you out here schilling for this list? Idol worship or idle time?
3 weeks ago
alright well sure why not ill take a stab but i suck at magic and also didnt make this list so if that discounts me you can stop reading now, though since it appears to matter, yes this is my main account
General comment about the state of the format, and how it's changed a lot since Oracle. Urza isn't a considerably quick deck, the nature of mono blue limits its options speedwise, and while the card quality blue has is on average, very high, mono blue normally is not as consistently fast as decks with black - though with certain draws it can be.
This puts Urza in a weird spot deck building wise. Urza wants to play to the board and develop its mana and board state. But Urza is ultimately a value card overall, which is even reflected outside of EDH as most Urza decks across formats are some mixture of midrange with a combo finish. Does not mean EDH must do the same but such a strategy has legs.
Okay so now EDH context. Urza isn't the fastest deck at the table. Especially with Oracle Hulk being the strongest deck now - this puts stress on Urza to hold up interaction consistently as opposed to develop mana for a few turns and attempt to combo.
Some of the artifacts can do both, some cannot. My point is that just vomiting artifacts and goldfishing a few turns doesn't work in EDH unless you are the Flash deck. Urza has to accommodate that. Thus, a midrage plan is explored.
Okay specific cards:
Legacy's Allure - I've not been big on it. Also it looks weaker now cause like, it's not as playable any more. It was Hulk tech cause it worked vs. older Hulk piles. It's not effective any more into Hulk, and is a very reasonable cut.
Homeward Path effects - I'll be honest I've never seen this played in a cEDH deck. The effect is so narrow for a poor manabase addition. It's severe deckbuilding cost to run this single card for what is, 1 or 2 effects max across a format. Anyone running this for just Drake is probably focusing on too small a margin.
Pithing Needle effects - Similar, I don't think it's necessary to skew a deck so harshly for a single card. Needle is rare, Revoker is more common. Totem would be the real issue to worry about. It's completely fine to tech more against it if you see it. But teching or skewing for specific effects not commonly played isn't a good idea.
Aether Spellbomb - Sure, I like it too. I see it in place of Allure with Oracle Hulk.
Recurring Insight - I don't think anyone who resolved this card has lost. It's a win-con itself. If you want to write this argument off, I don't think I can say much more.
Mishra's Workshop - Most EDH decks don't run enough artifacts for this. By the time you are your card quality is lower than it could be. I cannot say I've seen any EDH deck run an adequate density for this to not be a random ritual and then it's done. You need to skew heavily into artifact permanents, but then, see the original Urza gameplan argument.
Howling Mine - This card is actually dangerous if Urza is removed. Not a fan.
Trinisphere - It's amazing. In fact, it's so good, the authors literally said it's really good and you can run it. It's not cut.
Ensnaring Bridge - Mono blue is not a terribly inspiring Bridge deck considering there are so many good blue cards to run. But yes, it's playable in Urza.
Spinning Urza is strong, but arguing that counterspells make it miss and that card draw isn't good with it isn't understanding where Urza stands as a deck in the format. You probably aren't going to be able to sit and spin the wheel much in the current EDH climate. Or at least, not without getting Flashed on.
Expedition Map - It's fine. Not winning awards for speed, but it's an extra copy of a land.
Basalt + Rings has not been playable in cEDH for a very long time, and Urza doesn't change that. There is not an excuse to play poor quality cards for a moderate upside.
Urza isn't an artifact goldfish deck in EDH - or at least in the max power environment, it just can't afford to be any more. That's what many of these card choices have as context. If you have some different opinions sure. Doesn't make the entire list trash.
I find your aggressive comments on calling everyone stupid followers comical lmao. Like, come on that rhetoric is unnecessary. If you want to make a point, it should stand on its own by its actual soundness. Don't need to shit on literally everyone and then tell people to suck it up and put on "big boy pants" and give you a pass to engage in needlessly aggressive discourse.
but whatever i suck at mtg. its my real account tho, i used it like 2 days ago
1 month ago
Atemsis is super neato. You might like these: Apprentice Wizard, Coalition Relic, Urza's Incubator, Hall of the Bandit Lord, Pore Over the Pages, Mulldrifter, Rush of Knowledge, Covenant of Minds, Gush, Intellectual Offering, Recurring Insight, Overflowing Insight, Memorial to Genius, Blighted Cataract, Cryptic Caves, Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 month ago
Servbot40 come on buddy, lets read for comprehension next time. Everything I'm about to post is already ^ up there.
- Urza gives mana, taps, and free casts. The mana comes from artifacts. Running more artifacts over big flashy draw spells improves board state while still allowing you to accrue card advantage later. Running this as draw-go instead of artifact stax means you're going to be spending much more time reacting to the board than advancing your own game plan, and you will have to devote further slots to card draw to make up for 1-for-1 trades in a 1v1v1v1 format. The entire focus of this build basically ignores the benefits of running Urza as the commander. It is a weak CVT with some extremely minor swaps, and the minor uptick in card quality is negated by running cards like Recurring Insight.
- Claiming that Dramatic Scepter is less reliant than Chain + Teferi is silly when the outlet for Dramatic scepter is STILL the commander. It requires fetching two pieces + rocks, instead of fetching one piece + rocks. This list tries so hard to be able to function without the commander but is still locked out by turn 1 Pithing Needle naming Urza. I understand the intentions of wanting higher resilience and saving slots, but the philosophy and the application simply do not match here. The back up outlets require even more pieces to assemble, and are hard to tutor. Part of the reason this deck so desperately needs card draw is because it is poorly built and doesn't have good tutor outs or good topdecks. It requires lots of digging to find piece A and then Piece B, whereas CVT simply needs to find piece A and cast the commander.
- As far as gas goes, any artifact slotted over any cantrip over 2 CMC in cost is going to improve efficiency and also help with card advantage. Has anyone even read what the commander does? You realize you can pay outside of having infinite mana right? Running more artifacts = more mana = more activations. 17 Artifacts in an Urza list is bizarre. The philosophy about inclusions and exclusions is viewing Urza as your generic carddraw.dec commander. He isn't.
- Believing there is only a small pool of cEDH cards that are viable is why we have an Urza list with 90% match to CVT list. Once again, this deck should have some extremely easy includes with Howling Mine Expedition Map Trinisphere and Ensnaring Bridge, and those are just off the top of my head. It is stifling to the development of decks to be so obtuse as to how different commanders allow different card choices based upon what the commander does. No one is questioning slotting Rhystic Study or similar. Expensive draw spells and the focus on policing the table via counterspells are whats being focused on. Its a losing strategy as Urza doesn't provide the kind of card advantage needed to control the board with counterspells. His ability relies on PERMANENTS IN PLAY to put more GET FREE CASTS. Every additional counterspell is another brick from Urza actives, and slotting more draw spells actually loses mid game value instead of raising it, while also losing early game value.
Once again, I know this community believes these brewers are infallible, but this list is a joke. It makes intentionally sub-par card selections because "Urza might be unavailable" and then relies almost exclusively on Urza activations to assemble the win. It runs almost no problem solving cards. It ignores artifacts in an artifact centered commander to run high density of expensive instants and sorceries. It doesn't win fast, it doesn't win reliably, and if its shut off it has limited answers for solving problems. The answers it does have are temporary, and involve 2-for-1'ing yourself with a bounce THEN a counter to solve problems, or passing multiple turns. This is not a good deck, and the people worshiping it are drinking the Kool-Aid, so to speak.
1 month ago
dingusdingo Most cEDH pull from a core set of cards based on the game plan of your deck. The deck you are looking at here is a mid-range deck with a combo finish, and not an artifact stax deck. Chain Veil Teferi is a mid-range deck with a combo finish and not a planeswalker deck. Both decks have similar game plans which is to delay opposing faster combo decks until the infinite mana combo and they can both draw out their decks. The reason this seems so similar is because this deck is essentially CVT with a slightly higher card quality combo, Dramatic Scepter vs Chain Veil, and is less reliant on the commander for the win.
Fact or Fiction , Recurring Insight , Time Spiral and Future Sight all play into the mid-range nature of the deck. Urza is capable of casting these cards that are powerful but a touch to expensive for most decks. In addition these cards also assist with the "...this particular list runs out of gas and struggles with card draw..." weakness you pointed out. Which no card you mentioned to use in place really solved this issue. Hand hate cards are in general rare in cEDH and usually in the form of mass discard with a reanimated Sire Of Insanity or Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur .
In general thanks for your input, some of your suggestions may work for some playgroups and are likely worth playing in some cases. As with most netdecking you are usually better off starting from a generic list such as the one you commented on and replacing components of that deck to fit your Meta. In some cases you may find that you metagame actively hates against this decks entire gameplan and need to choose another deck.
1 month ago
You clowns slapped a new commander on top of CVT and called it a day. I know that these authors are treated as if they walk on water around these parts, but at a certain point this is just getting ridiculous. Compare the lists between Chain Veil Teferi and this one. Do you really think the two commanders are that similar? There are probably less than 10 cards of difference between these lists. Do you really believe that a PW commander and an artifact centric commander should have a 90% overlap in their lists?
You guys seriously have to stop slotting Legacy's Allure . Its a slow meme card that only performs if its in your opening 7. It is a complete dead draw later in the game. It doesn't advance your own position. Its relevance on the board turn 3 and 4 depends largely on your position in the turn rotation. The card type makes it the worst for interactions in your own deck. It isn't guaranteed to land against important creatures, because it is based on Power. It crumples to creature buffs while its on the stack. This is a pet card, and I'm extremely tired of seeing it pop up in lists because some noob saw it here first. Aether Spellbomb outperforms this immensely in an Urza list, especially since this particular list runs out of gas and struggles with card draw. Spellbomb also can activate itself via tap when Urza is out. Spellbomb also adds further resilience in this deck by not relying on creature stealing effects, which can be negated via Homeward Path . Having this AND drake shut off by a card that can be grabbed by Crop Rotation is poor deck building. Especially consider that this deck runs ALMOST NO WAYS to handle resolved threats, but more on that later.
Recurring Insight is another pet card inclusion. Its a dead card in your hand until turn 4 or 5, dependent on opponents resources for functionality, and is sorcery speed. Slotting this card while slotting other big 4, 5, and 6 cmc spells like Fact or Fiction Time Spiral Future Sight and Tezzeret means you are going to have far more hands that require mulligans due to having multiple of these cards in hand. Insight also proves to be garbage when playing against any decks that run handstax effects, Oppression Necrogen Mists Bottomless Pit Mindslicer Sire Of Insanity and more.
I find it telling you do not run Mishra's Workshop . The artifact density in this deck is far too low for an Urza deck. Its also why it has problems with gas later. If you had proper artifact support and leaned heavier into stax pieces, you could activate Urza casually for card advantage while still advancing board position. Workshop lets you hit the board with extreme speed and build a presence. Unfortunately, there is nothing for Workshop to ramp to, because the authors are so absurdly worried about not being able to protect Urza while holding 12 counterspells. Pro tip: Your list would actually gain resilience from slotting greater synergy between the 99 and the commander, as well as adding ways outside of the commander to access large amounts of mana.
Speaking of the commander, and returning to removal, this deck folds to a resolved Pithing Needle Phyrexian Revoker Sorcerous Spyglass Cursed Totem or Linvala, Keeper of Silence . The lack of layering and the lack of permanent removal mean if any of these permanents hit the table naming Urza, this deck might as well as scoop. The tutors you do run lead mostly to artifacts, and there aren't slotted artifacts that can handle this problem. This deck can answer problems in one of four cards outside counterspells, namely Gilded Drake (good) Legacy's Allure (bad) Chain of Vapor (good but temporary) and Cyclonic Rift (also good but temporary). There is a single card that can tutor into these, Mystical Tutor . Seriously hope you're holding one of 5 cards in your 99 while piloting, or else you're going to look like a joke when turn 1 Needle shuts off your entire gameplan. Your combo outside of Urza is tedious to assemble, and you're simply not going to be able to outrace real combo decks.
The decision not to include Rings + Monolith is silly. Especially when you're having gas problems, adding in additional A + B pieces and layering with other pieces increases resilience and will allow you to, you know, win faster. You'll have more dead opening hands, but if you cut out the garbage like Recurring Insight your overall starting hand strength will raise. Rings is an especially good piece, as it allows complete combo tutor off Muddle, and allows value generation from fetches and various effects like Inventors' Fair . Also consider Rings + Monolith as a combo versus Grim + Power Artifact. Rings has MUCH better usage than Power Artifact outside the combo, and the speed benefit from Grim is marginal compared to Basalt.
Speaking of Fair, it also shocks me that Expedition Map is not in this list. Map -> Fair -> Scepter is a line kids, and having pieces that fetch into the line means greater resilience and layering. Map also has value in fetching Tabernacle against Tymna decks, since this list runs pretty much 0 other answers to Tymna.
This deck is missing some artifacts that should be shoe-ins. Howling Mine is a no brainer. Even if Urza isn't on the field the entire game, receiving 7 cards during the game while giving 2 to your opponents is still beneficial to the pilot. Ensnaring Bridge should also be a no brainer. Slow beats from Pod decks, and stop Tymna, and shut off some infinite creature swinging combos. Trinisphere is another no brainer. It is such a massive slowdown piece. It doesn't matter if you decide to turn it off for a rotation. The pilot gets the decision of when to turn it off, not the opponents. I should not have to explain the benefit here. Even turning it off, the pilot still has the choice between stax effect or mana every time they use it. Even if its turned off on turn 5, if it delayed a turn 4 spell to turn 5 when its turned off it has done significant work.
This is without a doubt the most uninspired and phoned-in list I've seen attached to your names sickrobot ShaperSavant Lerker LabManiac_Sigi. Congratulations on building a $4000 turn 9 combo durdle machine, would give this a downvote if I could.
PookandPie on Urza
1 month ago
Saw this on the deck cycled list. Thought I'd offer my critique, as I also play Urza. My list for reference:
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 1 | 89 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
So there's a Selvala deck that outspeeds you? Let's see what we can do to fix that.
Release to the Wind is not a good card; I know it makes them pay double for whatever you exile, but that's usually a pittance and means this can never truly stop a game-winning permanent as they'll just get it right back. Imprisoned in the Moon isn't an instant, but it at least gets whatever it is out of the way for a moment (if placed on Selvala, that stops them dead for at least a couple turns, whereas 3 mana is just easy for them to generate otherwise). Reality Shift is cheaper than Gilded Drake and most of the time people don't get anything good off the manifest (only once have I exiled a Tymna for them to show some scary top deck like Notion Thief. Usually it's a land, a mana rock, or something else that they can't use now that it's on the board manifested). Or just run Rapid Hybridization to deal with early Selvalas to effectively double your chance at Pongify.
Static Orb would throw a wrench in a lot of player's plans. You simply tap them with Urza on the end step of your last opponent before you untap, and then you untap all of your permaments as normal. It's primarily one of the reasons why Urza is considered a good Commander (and I see you have Winter Orb in the deck already, but this one also shuts down dorks. Run both!). Since you're also having trouble with creature decks, I also recommend Tangle Wire , as it never hurts you as bad as your opponents.
You don't have many tutors (I count Mystical, Scroll, and Whir), so I imagine you have difficulty finding what you need. Cards like Fabricate , while inefficient, are still solid at finding the artifacts you need. Reshape is strong, and Muddle the Mixture pulls double duty at protecting your combo turn or allowing you to find your combo pieces (this is among the few cards in mono U that finds both Scepter and Reversal. This card's a big deal- run it). Outside of that, having big ways to draw cards can be hugely advantageous- Recurring Insight can be pretty strong as you generate tons of mana with Urza out (casting a 6cmc spell while everyone's tapped down and stuck with full hands due to Static Orb is a wonderful feeling), Blue Sun's Zenith isn't the greatest but it can draw when you need it to, or possibly even kill a player when you get Dramatic Scepter (if you don't like BSZ, Pull from Tomorrow is also very strong). Fact or Fiction and Dig Through Time are solid options as well, and you should totally be running Windfall or Echo of Eons with Narset, Parter of Veils in the deck (what's better than shutting off your opponent's draw? Stripping their hands to 1 card to make it hard for them to fight back).
Outside of that.... I see that you run Deadeye to win with Urza by making constructs, but why not Peregrine Drake over Myr Battlesphere? Battlesphere is also going to need Deadeye to close out a game, pretty much, but Drake generates infinite mana with Deadeye so you can just win via Urza and Jace. I'm not going to recommend the big pricey combo cards for the deck, but maybe something like that could give you a slight edge as you only have one method for infinite mana right now so if it gets destroyed you're basically done.
Suggestions on cards to cut for some of the above:
Ichor Wellspring- this card is playable in Daretti or Breya, but pretty bad elsewhere as you don't have a reliable way to sacrifice it, so it's basically 2 mana to cantrip/mana ramp. You could do that more efficiently with
and by swapping to Snow Covered Islands, but that's unnecessary when what you need is big draw or tutors to find combo pieces (that and
are just outright better at filtering through cards, let's be real).
Jhoira's Familiar- you don't need this. It's expensive and Sculptor is just flat out better at this effect.
Efficient Construction- you have Sai, Sai is better at this.
Riddlesmith- one of the tutors mentioned above would be better.
Trophy Mage- Is this a holdover from a previous build of the deck? Because it only finds Scrap Trawler and Worn Powerstone right now- both are cards I don't think you're going to jump at opportunities to tutor for.
Hopefully that helps figure out some cuts, and hopefully this long ass post helped.
3 months ago
Atemsis is super rad! Maybe instead of vanilla creatures you could play cards of various cmc that provide card value or supply mana? I'm thinking things like Brainstorm , High Tide , Mind Spring , Braingeyser , Chart a Course , Stroke of Genius , Blue Sun's Zenith , Worn Powerstone , Concentrate , Firemind Vessel , Rush of Knowledge , Covenant of Minds , Recurring Insight , Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar , Flow of Ideas . That way, if you have two cards in hand that have the same cmc, you can play one of them for more cards (or for more mana, which would incur more cards via Atemsis's activated ability), increasing your odds of having 6 cards with different cmc when Atemsis connects.