Who are the Commanders you enjoy sitting across the table from? How about the ones you loathe?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Feb. 9, 2022, 2:20 a.m. by TypicalTimmy
When you sit down at the table, and your opponent cracks open their case and you see their Commander, do you ever get excited or annoyed?
Which Commanders do you enjoy playing against? And which do you hate? And why?
There are very few commanders I truly hate playing against. I might have a bad round if there are bad matchups, like I'm playing a slower control deck vs 3 other aggro builds, but even then I enjoy the chance to see if I won't come in last, or cripple someone so another player can take them out first.
I do enjoy playing against other creature builds, seeing who can amass the biggest board state first. In my playgroup, the only deck over the last few years I've truly disliked playing against has been Tegrid, God of Fright. But even then, with a hand of removal spells I'll give it a shot.
February 9, 2022 7:10 a.m.
VensersJournalist says... #4
I’m always excited to play against the political shenanigans of a Phelddagrif or Zedruu the Greathearted deck. But honestly, any EDH game is fun to me if the decks at the table have unique twists to them or are built around less obvious combos/mechanics (like a zombie deck that’s not loaded with reanimation spells or a deck focused on turning enchantments into creatures).
As far as commanders I actively dislike: those are few and far between but I do get annoyed with Negan, The Cold-Blooded or Talrand, Sky Summoner builds that are just 60 counterspells and some lands.
February 9, 2022 8:32 a.m.
Love playing vs Xantcha, Sleeper Agent as you don't know what in store for you, and the ones I've seen are mega janky, yet potent.
As for dislikes, i've never played vs tegrid, but imagine it being another one of those commanders that if they aren't killed the the turn they come out, game is essentially over the same/following turn. I tend to dislike commanders that are counter/kill me asap or game is over as the play pattern is boring, but don't mind playing vs them. I care more if the pilot is a whiney little baby if it never sticks as if they are trying to guilt people to stop killing it.
February 9, 2022 4:34 p.m.
I guess rather than commander to commander, I tend to like to play against decks that are active on the board. So something like Gallia of the Endless Dance is awesome because it's a low cmc commander who will always be doing things. I like having an ever evolving puzzle to try to play into, and I really enjoy watching the boardstate grow into it's own monster every game.
What I have trouble playing against is something like Zacama, Primal Calamity that will just sit back and ramp and boardwipe until Zacama comes out and then win. It's not a puzzle to solve, it's like a card to solve, and I don't hate hate it, but I do find it much less fun to play against.
Even if I lose to someone who is actively progressing their boardstate and doing lots of things, it doesn't ever feel bad. Because you can analyze that and learn and figure out what you need to be doing on your turns to do better next time. But the play pattern of, ramp, wipe, wait, then do one big thing, that feels like, yeah, the way to stop that is to hold up interaction, which just makes the game even more inactive.
Honestly, I love Zacama in theory, just in practice, not so much : )
February 9, 2022 5:30 p.m.
TriusMalarky says... #7
boring decks suck. I don't want to see you play balanced fair magic, I want to see some stupid janky combo with some doofus theme. but I also don't want you to go low power -- max it out, I won't complain. I want to see the absolute funniest but still high-power viable stuff that can possibly be done.
February 9, 2022 10:08 p.m.
I am a don't care type of guy I win or I lose but know I am going to try and win
February 10, 2022 3:02 p.m.
unwisedragon says... #9
I squeal with joy when I sight an elusive Norin the Wary :O I've often considered building it myself, but haven't yet done it.
On the other side of things, I don't like build-around-commanders like Nekusar, the Mindrazer or The First Sliver because there isn't a lot of space to innovate, and the gameplay doesn't really vary.
February 10, 2022 4:43 p.m.
I enjoy playing against commanders that aren't on EDHrecs top 50 most popular of the last year because I like a shot at seeing something different.
I dislike overly built or popular commanders for a laundry list of reasons.
I dislike easymode commanders that are do-everything stapled on one card - In part because I like relying more on the 99, more luck of the draw. So, I am not a fan of alot of the commanders that are hard-stop solve-now or lose cards. To me this would be: The First Sliver, legal golos, Urza, Lord High Artificer, Korvold, Fae-Cursed King, Chulane, Teller of Tales
I have enjoyed commander games against commanders that don't instantly up the ante to win-now mode when they hit the battlefield. I've loved some: Queen Marchesa, Liesa, Shroud of Dusk, Mogis, God of Slaughter, Thantis, the Warweaver
Any group slug decks always contribute a bunch to the game IMO. 2+ group slug players is awesome.
February 10, 2022 11:10 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #11
Only Commander I've ever taken issue with was Oloro. I just hate playing against heavy stax decks, in general.
Like I get it, your idea of fun might be grinding an entire table to a halt and watching everyone struggle to cast even a single spell.
But my idea of fun is not drawing a card and passing because I can do literally nothing... and repeating this for an hour straight.
Call me salty all you want, but I can spend that hour of my life much better. I didn't sit down to have my time wasted, I sat down to play a game. So if I am not playing the game, I am not invested and thus it is a waste of my time. I've walked away from a game that had Winter Orb in play because if I have a high MV deck, untapping a single land each turn means I'll be dead before I even get one spell out.
Oh, I finally got to cast something? Great! And, it's countered. Remind me how this is "fun" again?
February 11, 2022 12:59 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #12
TypicalTimmy it's a different axis of interaction. Would you say that a deck with 12 boardwipes would be fun to play against? How about Talrand, Sky Summoner with 25 counterspells? Or maybe Tergrid, God of Fright Flip who will take your hand and your board away from you and under their control. Overdoing anything will make a game boring, especially if you focus on deconstructing other people's game plans.
The first commander deck I played, had the critical mistake of focusing way too much on the commander. Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper had a lot of carddraw and interaction, but I needed the awakened lands to make a board presence and not die. After three fun games, my commander got removed or countered immediately for the first 3 times I brought him out. Sitting there, in need of paying 13 mana for your commander, and then more for it to actually do something, while the rest of the table is doing the 20+ mana silly stuff, and you're trying to join in and get bullied on your biggest weakness every time...
That's how stax players are made I guess, finding the weak spots of the strategies others enjoy, and preemptively punish them for trying. I personally find it hilarious when someone's Dockside Extortionist is about to make 13 treasures, and I can Chord of Calling for Collector Ouphe before the Etb resolves. You don't need many counterspells when you have a Rule of Law, you don't need a Wrath of God when Ensnaring Bridge keeps your health total safe.
I understand when you call yourself Typical Timmy it's going to be hard to see the fun in your wins being disabled by freaking 2-3 mana artifacts and enchantments, but if you're usually losing to 60 mana, 20 spells cast Storm turns in EDH, a Rule of Law, Winter Orb and a Stony Silence are a breath of fresh air to try and give yourself time to do other cool stuff that lies in the possibilities of magic cards. I still want to make a deck that wins with Stern Judge+Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth that would be an excellent wincon for that sort of playstyle. It probably wouldn't work in just a ramp deck.
Personally, even if I'm building a stax deck, I try to leave the lands alone, and only play hate for acceleration (mana rocks, treasures, mana dorks, etc) because I know the helpless feeling of playing a game of "not playing the game" all too well. Still, if your plan is to win with combat damage, make sure you can do it through Meekstone+Blind Obedience, or be challenged to win in unconventional ways (which for me, the stax player, is really interesting to see the creativity of what happens when they do).
That's where I think the fun in stax is. It might take a broken player to start, but your opponents WILL notice you on their way to victory. Of course, your mileage may vary.
February 11, 2022 3:46 a.m.
I, fortunately, have not played against Tergrid, God of Fright Flip - though I think someone in my playgroup has made that deck now. I think I have a few decks that may stack up ok against it... hard to say though.
I feel like if WoTC keeps making do-it-all, high-powered commanders, the game will just be a game of using the 99 to ramp into the commander & not much else because there is your turn __ wincon right there.
Side note: someone mentioned Negan, The Cold-Blooded. I could see how that one gets frustrating. Could you imagine how much more prolific that commander would be if it weren't a Walking Dead oddball?
February 11, 2022 5:57 a.m.
It is interesting the different kinds of takes on this topic & what commanders some players hate to see. I think these likes/dislikes can sometimes say something about your preferred strategy.
plakjekaas may dislike seeing my Atla Palani, Nest Tender deck for example. Because more often than not the most common stax pieces end up actually causing a unilateral advantage to that deck (though, like anything with this game there are a few real hosers I've seen, they are just less commonly played). Whereas I usually don't mind seeing beater/anti-control decks. In opposition, TypicalTimmy may not mind going toe-to-toe with a non-combo Atla deck.
As far as decks that I commonly play that my playgroup(s) don't seem to mind goes: Kardur, Doomscourge, Marisi, Breaker of the Coilenchantress, Thantis, the Warweaverslug/control-hoser
On the other hand, I am told the aforementioned Atla deck can: "eat a bag of dicks" so I'm guessing the most prevalent strategies at my table are control with a really mild peppering of stax. No surprise to me that the one commander-reliant deck I have that snowballs out of control based on simply fielding the commander is the most hated. This commander would actually fill my checkboxes above on commanders I dislike: 1) popular 2) commander takes over the game on its' own -- except the strategy gels with me.
If you can't tell, I am more of a strategy assessment player than a current threat assessment player :) --different good topic there though.
February 11, 2022 6:38 a.m.
So I guess reviewing my long stream of consciousness there are 3 main rationale for me disliking or liking a commander:
- Popularity of the commander
- Game-warping ability (does the 99 even matter?)
- Prevalent strategy associated
February 11, 2022 6:44 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #16
Gleeock Hushbringer is one hell of a card :P
I probably wouldn't mind a fun Atla Palani, Nest Tender deck. The only thing I dislike with a fiery passion, are the decks that try to play my deck. Tergrid, God of Fright Flip, Xanathar, Guild Kingpin, Sen Triplets, stuff like that. I make an effort to get the fancy versions of the cards, I tinker through the small hours of the night to make sure my decks work the way I want them to, and that I enjoy playing them. People trying to take that from me, without the same effort I put in, can count on me trying to eliminate them, against better threat assessment. You can borrow one of my decks no problem, if you like what I'm brewing, but stop taking my cards from my library, my battlefield, my hand and my graveyard. Or prepare to die. Even if I succumb to the efforts, you still lose my stuff when I'm out. As soon as you know we will both be miserable if you indulge in stealing from me, we can have an actual game. Just like in real life 0:)
February 11, 2022 8:10 a.m.
One interesting thing is that I do generally hear the hate for infect a lot less these days. It used to be the boogeyman in my playgroup, but I feel like now with things like Urza, Chulane, Korvold, and oh yeah Tergrid, like you all mentioned, it's almost more comforting than anything to see someone go all in on infect and combat. I don't see infect win a lot, at all, but it does put pressure on one person at the table, and can actually do a good job of checking things that people bring that honestly may be a little too strong for the group.
February 11, 2022 8:40 a.m.
That is a pretty specific dislike :)
I think there is a big difference between the types of theft. The ones that attack card advantage, I dislike. I love Xanathar, Guild Kingpin, Grenzo, Havoc Raiser etc.. even though in several of my unfocused Timmie decks I know I will be the prime target for ripping off the library. Playing off library doesn't bother me. The other commanders you mentioned are more likely to take&play a resource out of hand which I do dislike. Library disruption to me is a good way to keep games shaken up & introduce a little chaos to the game.
Niko9 I think as EDH has gravitated more & more to alternate wincons & more win-now/1-turn wins: Infect, combat dmg, & combat-centric have lost some of that salt overall. Some people still hate a tuned mimeoplasm deck though, so again, there are exceptions to every rule
February 11, 2022 10:21 a.m.
I currently only play with my brothers at home with decks I have built, so my experience for this thread will come from my experience with Historic Brawl on Arena, which is close enough for the sake of this topic.
Tergrid, God of Fright Flip is awful to play against. Chulane, Teller of Tales and Yarok, the Desecrated are equally unfun. I didn't really think much of it during VOW spoiler season but Toxrill, the Corrosive is quickly becoming a top "kill on sight" commander as well and although I've only played one game against it, I can see Hinata, Dawn-Crowned enter into this tier as well. Removal, protection and counterspells all cost one less? Ugh.
Sadly, Historic Brawl is largely these decks with a healthy dose of The First Sliver and Esika, God of the Tree Flip and a decent amount of Halana and Alena, Partners. There's very little variety, it seems.
February 11, 2022 10:40 a.m.
Yeah. I could see Toxrill, the Corrosive being a commander that alot of people would dislike. Yarok, the Desecrated was certainly one that had me burnt out mostly because of popularity when I used to play online. Golos was another... It was common where I would play several games with 2 other Golos players (partially my fault for staying in that game). To some extent Esika, God of the Tree Flip is filling that WUBRG goodstuff void that alot of people apparently like. I think Hasbro has figured out that WUBRG commanders are good for the bottom dollar. Not too surprising that they caught onto that, the manabase for a new WUBRG deck itself is $$.
February 11, 2022 12:14 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #21
It’s weird, and probably a significant failure on my part, but I often don’t even really know the names of the commanders I play against. As a first line of explanation; I generally either wear my glasses or a mask when I’m out of the house. Since the owner of my shop requests we wear masks I gladly do so. That makes it a little more difficult to read all of the cards. The better explanation, though, is that so many of the cards have gotten so wildly overpowered (to my 1995 M:tG brain) that I have almost completely stopped even caring what the card names are. I just ask what they do, or often the player helps explain it right away, and then roll with it. I’m ashamed to admit this, but if you’ve met me and talked to me about an amazing game you just finished where Opersooze kept preventing Czarkigag from doing that thing he does... I’m really struggling with understanding what you’re saying. And I’m sorry about that. All of that aside: I love playing magic, so I will restate what many of you have already said - every game is a good one. Some games are more troubling than others, specifically when an opponent is clearly winning but unable to close it out (or is intent on winning a certain way). Even in those cases though, I’ve been lucky to play with people that at least tell us “I’m sorry but I want to see if I can win by just making additional elementals” for omnath (look! I remembered a new card’s name!) or whatever. Tergrid showed up this Wednesday, and that card can be tough, but the game was basically over once she was cast so it really wasn’t a big deal. I love seeing the odd or underused legends come out, though. The goblin that makes and throws rocks is amazing and one of my friends brings him around sometimes. Very fun!!
February 11, 2022 6:55 p.m.
Haha FormOverFunction - so you'd say you've reached the point to where you care about the Function (what's it do?) over the Form? (What's the name & picture?) :) . I sortof get that. It is mostly just a monthly game of wizard-poker for me & my buddies now. It does almost feel like pretty soon you could just say: is it color x/y win turn 4 guy? or WUBRG-without-a-discernible-identity-win-when-you-cast-gal? & you just insert a random name. Though some of my buddies have played so long that they kindof go against the grain on the newest & baddest. I'd say my playgroup has more of an arms race in the 99 than they do in the commander slot.
February 12, 2022 12:12 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #23
Gleeock - for sure!! I’m careful not to shame someone for not having theme/form at the core of their decks. I might make a SMALL joke if there’s a bird holding three swords, or something like that, but I’m honestly having too much fun engaging in magic-card-playing to risk being a jerk about people not living up to the rules that I made for myself lol. Magic-Poker is a good way to describe some of the game interactions, I like that! I try to have my decks add a little more D&D/RPG/fantasy to the “full house beats two pair again” realm, but cards is cards either way. I’m always super glad to be there (and glad to be talking on the internet with all you random weirdos).
February 12, 2022 1:34 p.m.
ZendikariWol says... #24
I love love playing against two kinds of decks:
1: Politics! I love politics decks- playing them, playing against them, they never fail to bring a smile to my face. The table collectively slaughtering the first player not to pass the Humble Defector is a very rare experience (and would probably get old if it wasn't) but in its scarcity is very amusing; making decisions that are undeniably bad but very interesting and chaotic is a great time.
2: Decks that I have or want to build: Krark, the Thumbless / Sakashima of a Thousand Faces infini-Krarks and spell tribal, Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist / Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper clones, Prosper, Tome-Bound, I love looking at other people's takes on the decks I've built or want to build, it's just a great time, I'm always fascinated. I learn about new cards, can workshop things with the opponent, get a lot of cool insights on how to play my deck, and hopefully pass some on as well.
Also, just wanted to say, bummer we're all here talking about stuff we hate. Let's have fun and talk about fun stuff, we never do that!
February 13, 2022 6:17 p.m.
ZendikariWol If you love politics decks you should consider: Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist/Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa with the fantastic gifting package -- you can see what it is trying to do I bet :)
February 13, 2022 7:45 p.m.
I haven't played against it, but I remember seeing a Tolarian Community College that was a decktech on Stark of Rath and it was kind of amazing. Would love to play against that just for the sheer creativity that went into it.
February 14, 2022 7:44 a.m.
Firelights says... #27
I can say there are very few specific commanders I "loathe" playing against. I dislike storm piles and linear decks that can just "win check" slam their commander and do one thing from game to game. This includes urza and first sliver and any deck like tolrand that is just countering everything into the inevitable infini-turn win. This gets particularly frustrating for me when the pilot of that deck gets frustrated when the game becomes archenemy. That being said I'm not a huge fan of decks that rely on politics and excessive table talk to win either.
My favorite generals are resilient and offbeat. A typical general with an offbeat deck (or even a cool plan b) and piloted by a pleasant person is always fun too. ... Bonus points for the battle cruiser general (cmc 8+) and anything with the original card border
February 14, 2022 9:44 a.m.
Firelights. I know what you mean about excessive table talk too. Even though I still say I like "politics" decks. I am more into cards that force deals or decisions... More Machiavellian politics, the discernible difference is that I usually remember that we are all opponents in a free-for-all game & I let the cards force the interactions a little more ala: Curse of Opulence, Shiny Impetus. Otherwise, I've seen far too many "deals" & teamups go south on people, particularly the one accepting a proposition. I usually say, "I am going to send damage where I will, If you have a threat, show it to me now instead of trying to hang it over my head". That being said, I love punisher style politics: Kaervek the Merciless is a true delight to me :)
February 14, 2022 1:57 p.m.
I don't love or hate any specific generals
Hate: Any solitaire or winless stax decks. its a thing i get it, but i've invested thousands of dollars, wait 1-2 weeks between games and you got lucky enough to combo off when i didn't have a response. That doesn't mean i should be punished by wasting my valuable play time watching someone else play for 45+ mins. (thats what youtube is for) when this happens i give it 5 mins tops for the combo to resolve, or 2 maybe 3 rounds for the stax to be broken before i just scoop.
Love: Interactive decks. No i don't mean idots that just counter spell everything all the time. i mean decks that are packed full of actual answers. every round is a stack filled slug fest and at any moment it could be anyone's game. the first words out of the winners mouth should be "wooo that was a close one im surprised i got it"
as for Tergrid, God of Fright
Flip i love it when im playing with my friends. Im more then happy to discard all my mc fatties then drop a Brand, Gruul Charm, or Homeward Path nothing like getting 20+cmc on the board by turn 5
however i will not play against it in a store. theirs no freaken way in hell im ever going to mix my cards up with 2 other people on a total strangers playmat the card should be banned in official play because of theft.
February 18, 2022 2:44 p.m.
I've only ever fielded 3 commander decks: Yisan, the Wanderer Bard, Daretti, Scrap Savant and Kaalia of the Vast.
Of the three, Kaalia was by far the most hated thing i've ever seen. Kaalia gets hate like you wouldn't imagine. I don't even have a good kaalia deck. Besides aurelia and gisela, i don't have anything in there that's just game ending by itself. It wins by combat, no crazy combos. I don't even have necropotence or dark confidant or any really good draw engines. Still it is the most hated thing i've ever played, and seems to consistently be the most hated thing at the table for its ability to very quickly end the game for someone.
Yisan was generally well received though.
People didn't have a problem with daretti himself. They didn't like the "winter orb, obliterate, crawlspace" strat i did to get my board set up to something i can win with. The difference between this and Kaalia, though, is that people hate kaalia as soon as they see her. People don't hate daretti till he pulls off shenanigans.
Personally, the commander i hated going against the most was probably that blue guy that makes you draw whenever their controller draws. I get to draw my deck in ten turns, but i can't play anything besides lands and mana rocks.
Marath, Will of the Wild is a commander i remember going against fondly. Felt fair enough.
February 18, 2022 3:03 p.m.
As for commanders I enjoy playing against, definitely Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis. You won't have a problem with cards or mana, which are usually the things that make a game of commander less fun.
As for ones I hate, obviously any stax commander- leave that oppression for cEDH where it belongs. Nekusar, the Mindrazer is also pretty annoying. We'll just kill him into oblivion, but we'd rather play our own decks. Same goes for Prime Speaker Vannifar and any other failed cEDH commander that people just try to combo off with in regular commander. Again, we'll kill and counter your commander a lot and you won't get to have fun, but neither will we. Either go to the big leagues or learn how to build a good deck for regular commander.
plakjekaas says... #2
Ofc that depends a lot on the deck I'm playing. If I'm playing my Kumano, Master Yamabushi deck, I hate to see other mono or -focused decks at the table, mainly because my deck plays Extraplanar Lens, Gauntlet of Might and Gauntlet of Power and other heavily red decks are usually way better equipped to make use of the extra mana I'm supplying. It's also not fair to the non-red players at the table.
February 9, 2022 3:42 a.m.