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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
|Pauper Duel Commander||Legal|
As an additional cost to cast Wild Guess, discard a card.
Draw two cards.
6 months ago
Wanted to add ways to mitigate board clears, and help punch through blockers.
would love recommendations for better versions of cards
1 year ago
I feel as though this deck is in dire need of at least some removal spells. Depending on the format you can probably go for Lightning Bolt or Scorching Dragonfire as they're kind of just go-to staples. If you're really cheeky you can even go for Mine Collapse , as you can spend your turn summonning a big ass Hellion before blowing up one of your opponent's key creatures or planeswalkers by just sacrificing a Mountain.
Also you can maybe use cards like Claim the Firstborn and Thrill of Possibility instead of Wrangle and Wild Guess . Claim is cheaper than Wrangle and Thrill works at instant speed while also having a generic mana cost in case you only have a single mountain and a Hellion Crucible out on turn 2.
1 year ago
Fuzzlewuzzle Agree with you on Wild Guess and Final Parting . The double red pips are hard sometimes I just wanted more of the same effect. Final parting is one I'm unsure of, I love that it's sort of a double tutor, but it may still not get there. Also definitely willing to try out some of those double strikers!
X-Factor11105 I wonder if we could consider a heavier artifact/treasure subtheme? Run red, black, and colorless artifact lands, as well as the pirate themed looting spells. Between those and Dockside Extortionist you'd have a chance at seeing a lot of artifacts for Gadrak. And if we don't need the treasures right away, Goldspan will only make them better later.
1 year ago
I'm actually with MeanLizard regarding Tormenting Voice . Yeah, it's strictly worse than Thrill of Possibility , but I don't think I've ever been unhappy to see it, and it really helps dig through the deck in the early game without having to jump through any hoops. I'm not so hot on Wild Guess - the double red can be a pain in the early game, so I generally want everything on the lower end of my curve to have as few pips as possible.
I can't even imagine running the deck without Hellkite Tyrant . There's always going to be artifacts on the board, and even merely stealing a couple mana rocks is still a great way to pull ahead in a game.
As for Final Parting , I really want to like it, because it is an awesome effect for this kind of deck... but 5 mana is a pretty steep price for a tutor.
As much as it hurts me to say it, cutting Feldon would be pretty easy. There are a lot of amazing things he can do if he sticks around, but I've found that a lot of the time Feldon hits the field and... dies. He's the kind of card that makes good hands better, but makes bad hands worse.
1 year ago
MeanLizard thanks for sharing your list! I'd love to talk out where I see variance in our design!
You're only playing Dragons (and Anger , always Anger )! I really like your low creature count and how it opens up space for instants and enchantments. I'm seeing our differences in playstyle come from this section. Also, we both REALLY need to add Goldspan Dragon ...a lot.
Lathliss, Dragon Queen consistently underwhelmed for me. I hope you haven't found that to be the case!
Please let me pitch you on swapping Hellkite Tyrant for a utility creature like Dockside Extortionist ! I always found Tyrant to be a win-more card and I consistently feel like this deck doesn't need to win-more, it needs to sustain and accelerate.
Where you have Tormenting Voice , I run Azra Oddsmaker . For Wild Guess , I run Chainer, Nightmare Adept . Your Cathartic Reunion swaps in for my Daretti, Scrap Savant . Your Molten Echoes mirrors my Feldon of the Third Path .
How have you felt about your gameplay? You've streamlined this strategy to the Nth degree with heavier draw and reanimation packages - I can imagine this being SO quick and potentially a bit more prone to getting squashed by graveyard hate. Maybe not because of how much card draw you're doing?
Take out Final Parting for Mausoleum Secrets and enjoy! Also, how can we find space for Underworld Breach here?! You're leaning into flashback and threshold a bit more than I do, I'd LOVE to see these inclusions!
I have some other questions and thoughts, but that feels like plenty to start with!
1 year ago
Here's my list for discussion purposes.
The drawbacks you listed are real. But the way I look at it, every deck has some holes baked into their structure, we just want to maximize the benefits. The absolute strongest play this deck can have is an early game reanimation effect, so I'm trying to maximize the chance that I can discard a huge dragon as well as have something in my hand to bring them out way ahead of curve. Animate Dead , Necromancy , and Reanimate are the best at this. However, if turn 2 I cast Wild Guess and discard Utvara Hellkite , and turn 3 I cast dance of the dead, I still have a huge turn 4 attack that will also make bodies. Basically, anyway we can get dragons out ahead of curve is on plan so I'm willing to play some less effective cards with the same effect.
Sometimes it can be more painful to discard multiples with cards like cathartic reunion and you're right tutors are way better. But why not both? Cathartic sometimes lets you discard a dragon and an anger which feels great! Mostly it's just about maximizing the cards I see each game, so I've never had situations where it felt too awful. I usually have at least one dragon and one card I'd gladly trade in like an extra land or something.
Let me know your thoughts, I don't have any sacred cows and I'm always trying to make Bladewing better! He's my absolute favorite commander.
1 year ago
Hi MeanLizard! Thanks for your feedback! Let's talk about these!
Cathartic Reunion : This is probably the strongest suggestion and the one I'd be most likely to include. It's 2 CMC, draw three rate is so efficient in Bladewing builds! I could've sworn I'd included it and cut it at some point. In general, I feel like I've finally got my card draw in a good place, and Cathartic may push that further. - In your play experience, how often have you been upset / adversely impacted by discarding a 2nd card? More often than not I have a dragon to send to the graveyard, but that 2nd card worries me..
Tormenting Voice & Wild Guess : Both of these are omitted just because they're not as efficient as I'd like them to be. Card advantage can be a major problem for this deck, so I either want to get exactly what I need (tutors!), have recurring value (planeswalkers!) or get a draw alongside another effect (mana rocks!). I know these push the strategy forward, I just wonder if there's more value to be had from those slots, especially knowing they're at sorcery speed. For those reasons, I've considered Seize the Spoils and Pirate's Pillage for their additional synergies!
Dance of the Dead and Necromancy : I see them in every other Bladewing build, and they 100% make sense, and are probably optimal include. What do you think would make sense to take out for one or both? I've never pulled the trigger on these because of minor quibbles about their drawbacks - DotD comes in tapped and has the ongoing cost, while Necromancy is a 3 CMC, single-target reanimate.
I'd sooner consider Necromancy over Dance of the Dead I think, but I'd want to have a bit more value coming from ETBs/LTBs to ensure consistent value in the event I need the instant-speed mode: of my 24 creatures (including Bladewing), I only have 8-9 that can take advantage of the flash version. I think if the creature base gets more ETB/LTB heavy in the future, it'll be a stronger inclusion for sure!
If you share your list I'd love to check it out open up our discussion!
2 years ago
Thrill of Possibility, Light Up the Stage, Destructive Digger. In recent years the color red has become more and more engrossed with the concept of drawing cards perhaps more than any other color outside of blue. To some it may feel like a break in the color pie while others see it as boon for formats like commander. It's apparent that a balance needs to be struck so that red card draw remains an inferior counterpart to card draw of blue, but even so I do feel there are ways in which pre-existing card advantage could be improved upon to be more flexible.
((TL;DR - In this thread I'll present various red cards that offer card advantage, briefly describe the pros and cons and then offer a future-shifted variant of the card if that particular card draw mechanic were to ever be improved upon.))
While there are many, many various other forms of this manner of red card draw it can be safe to say this is probably red's favorite form of card advantage. Effectively these cards typically read as, "this card and another card in your hand have cycling." as cards such these don't aim to increase the number of cards in your hand, but to simply take a chance at improving the cards in your hand. There are other benefits too such as purposely wanting to put certain cards in your graveyard to accrue additional value. However, because these cards never increase the number of cards in hand, running out of cards in hand is a real problem that can nullify this type of card advantage until your next draw step. It's also important to note that you can even risk throwing away a so-so card for worse cards in return. Cards like these also make themselves easy targets to get 2-for-1'd by counter spells.
Flexibility. While it may not be the most astounding of changes it does lend the player more choices when playing the game. If your hand is weak you can draw two cards and if your hand is strong you can draw one card instead. This card even makes itself useful if it’s the only card in hand. If I were to further improve upon this card I might add, "This spell can't be countered by spells and abilities" but that might be too much text for a common card. I could have also just given this card cycling instead, but that might make the card harder to put in non-cycling sets. It too, would also expand the amount of text on the card if you consider reminder text.
When it comes to discard-draw on creatures there's a myriad of different ways it can be triggered or activated, but the common factor amongst them all is the exchange rate of one card discarded per one card drawn. Despite this the pros and cons to these creatures work much like their instant and sorcery counterparts. Their abilities won't work if you have no cards in hand nor do they actually ever increase the number of cards in hand. They simply provide any given card in your hand cycling. One additional issue however is these creatures can sometimes take a full turn cycle before they can use their effects unless if you give them haste.
First of all, Card B is meant to be an improvement of Rummaging Goblin though the same concept wouldn't be too hard to apply to cards such as Academy Raider or Reckless Racer. At first, I thought slapping haste onto these creatures would suffice enough, however; giving them an ETB rummage seemed more creative as you achieve the same end except if you have some extraneous source that provides haste you'd be able to double the effect just for the turn it comes in. As for the ability, I've maintained the same one card discarded per one card drawn ratio just in a more roundabout way. Essentially by activating the creature ability not only do you get a rummage, but you practically get your next draw step a turn earlier. Card parity is maintained as the second card discarded will be the one you will never draw on your next turn. As impatient as red is this seemed on point to me. I also believe this ability works better on permanents than instants and sorceries as its easier to remember to skip your draw step when you go to untap the permanent that caused it the following turn.
Discard-Draw isn't the only avenue red gets its card advantage. Exiling cards off the top of the library is practically no different than drawing the cards, except your opponents can see what's drawn and the cards have an expiration date, so it’s better to cast them fast. While this method may be even closer in theme to pure card draw its faults can make it more of an unpopular choice than the discard-draw route. The issue itself boils down to mana and speed. Red's most explosive in the early game, but in the early game mana is limited. If you have to cast a three mana card that exiles multiple cards that you can only cast for that turn the overall CMC of that spell is going to cost you in the 5 to 7 mana range and that's if your deck is built low to the ground which makes the effect horribly impractical in red's color theme. In order to fix the issue lots of liberties need to be made in order to make the effect practical on red's level such as making the exiled cards last until the end of your next turn and making the exile spell cost one mana like with Light Up the Stage. This sets up obnoxiously tight standards to meet when designing practical cards that utilize this effect. Not only that but you don't get to choose which cards are exiled whereas discard-draw gives you some choice as to what gets put in the graveyard. Furthermore, some cards create value when put into the graveyard, unlike the exile zone.
Choices. Instead of exiling two cards off the top of the library, two cards are drawn followed by exiling any two cards from the hand. Because the player can choose which cards get exiled, cards can only be cast from exile instead of being played. The difference is spells are treated as usual, but lands can no longer be played from exile. Lands are the easiest cards to play, thus not being able to play them from exile puts more weight on what cards you choose to put into exile. The card advantage effect was inspired by Faithless Looting. (That is if Faithless Looting was fixed and didn't allow you to dump busted cards into the graveyard.) As for the duration of how long cards can be cast from exile I also wanted to leave that up to choice. Red likes to attack a lot so an attack restriction impacts red more than any other color as you may have to choose between tempo or card advantage. While additionally putting a blocking restriction may seem weird it's important to note that if you choose not attack with your creatures they'll remain untapped which may make your opponent uncomfortable with attacking. Because your opponent can see what's in exile they too can try to force a choice out of you to their advantage. As I see it the cards in exile are pretty much treated as though they have Mardu Blazebringer's ability which is what has inspired this duration effect.
Special shoutout to Bedlam Reveler. Similar to discarding a card to draw a card, this form of card draw instead works by discarding your entire hand just to draw two or three cards, because red is sometimes extreme like that. The main benefit to running these effects is if you’re able to use up all your cards naturally you won’t have a hand when one of these effects hit the table. Under this scenario you’d be drawing two or three cards with no strings attached which would be pretty good. The issue is playing without a hand means you can’t carry removal spells and it can make your plays all the more predictable for your opponent to counteract. It may also be difficult to use up all the cards in your hand in a speedy manner meaning it won’t be until much later in the game that you can fully utilize your draw effect. Given all the previous draw effects can be used much earlier in the game with little consequence this particular form of card draw seems to be not worth the inclusion unless it comes stapled onto a huge creature you can cheat out for two mana. With that said I’d like to create an improved form of Dangerous Wager. Back when this card was printed its only competitor was Wild Guess. (and Faithless Looting.) These two cards were roughly on equal power level to one another with their strengths balancing out, but now that Thrill of Possibility has been printed recently Dangerous Wager hardly has any benefits over it. This begs the question, how could Dangerous Wager be designed today to compete with Thrill of Possibility or Cathartic Reunion?
Dangerous Wager was the type of card you probably wouldn't cast turn 2 or turn 3 as you would risk major card disadvantage for very little pay off. In essence you'd want to play the card much later in the game where the pay off was either equal or advantageous. Just like Dangerous Wager, this card was constructed under the same mindset to be cast more preferably towards the later half of the game. The upside is if you have one or two cards in hand when this spell is cast you're guaranteed of keeping the cards. This provides the benefit of gaining better card advantage over Thrill of Possibility yet bearing the downside of not being able to cast it as early in the game.
"Random" is a fickle word. It's all fun and games when the word random is forced on your opponents, but the word quickly loses it novelty when its applied to the caster. It's hard to picture many scenarios where any of these cards provide outstanding value. If you cast them with no cards in hand you're practically casting a cantrip that also self-mills you. Maybe with a full hand you could call it a free mulligan, but the only times I'd want to mulligan is if my hand has all lands or all spells. In either scenario you're probably not casting this card anyway. Perhaps if random was less random it could serve as a better free mulligan card?
Yes, its a bit of a word wall. The effect is simple so perhaps someone can come up with a cleaner way to shorten up the text? Essentially this is a draw three cards, then discard two cards at random. Except in this case you exile three cards at random, but you get to keep the one you like the most. Basically if there's one card you absolutely don't want to lose to the random effect, then you're guaranteed to keep it through this process. This makes the random process less random yet still beyond the caster's full control. I also chose to make the excluded cards go to the bottom of the library instead of the graveyard. The reason for this is to prevent the card from being too similar to Faithless Looting which is banned in Modern and to make it more similar to scrying or the card Fire Prophecy. Another interesting thing to note about this custom card is if you have no cards in hand this card becomes Anticipate but in red. Please keep in mind though that having no cards in hand is a pretty strong drawback as this card for the most part will be much less reliable than it if you have cards in hand.
Special shoutout to Countryside Crusher. Red really likes land destruction, so why not draw cards off of destroying your own lands? This effect is probably the most inconsistent out of all the red draw effects. While the concept is solid, getting it to work in practice largely seems to be a work in progress. I suppose the blue standard for this type of effect is best represented by Trade Routes and Compulsive Research interestingly enough.
Since Tectonic Reformation is a red version of Trade Routes I thought I would make a red version of Compulsive Research as the card doesn't seem like too much of a stretch for red to imitate. While Card F may seem very simple for a rare, I think drawing three cards at instant speed would be pretty strong. Unlike Compulsive Research your discard payment option is limited to discarding the land card only, and you have to discard the land card first before you can even draw any cards. (With Compulsive Research you'd likely draw into the land card you'd discard anyway.) Making this card cost two more mana to draw one more additional card from Magmatic Insight also seems to align well too I think.
Anyway, that's about all I had planned. I did want to make a card to represent the Wheel of Fortune cycle consisting of Wheel of Fortune, Wheel of Fate and Magus of the Wheel but that effect is so incredibly strong that I can't really think of a reasonable way to nerf it while still having it be practical in a two player game. If I do think of something I'll probably add a Card G to this thread. Regardless, do you think any cards are too strong or too weak? What card would you really want to see be included into the game?