Vantress Gargoyle
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Legality

Format Legality
1v1 Commander Legal
Archenemy Legal
Arena Legal
Block Constructed Legal
Canadian Highlander Legal
Casual Legal
Commander / EDH Legal
Commander: Rule 0 Legal
Custom Legal
Duel Commander Legal
Gladiator Legal
Highlander Legal
Historic Legal
Legacy Legal
Leviathan Legal
Limited Legal
Modern Legal
Oathbreaker Legal
Pioneer Legal
Planechase Legal
Quest Magic Legal
Tiny Leaders Legal
Vanguard Legal
Vintage Legal

Vantress Gargoyle

Artifact Creature — Gargoyle

Flying

Vantress Gargoyle can't attack unless defending player has seven or more cards in their graveyard.

Vantress Gargoyle can't block unless you have four or more cards in hand

: Each player puts the top card of their library into their graveyard.

NallexJr on Blue/Black Budget Mill

1 month ago

Balaam__ I totally see where you're coming from with the Jace's Phantasm and Vantress Gargoyle, there is definitely a world where I can use those spots in my deck for better mill cards. I am looking at removing at least one more copy of the gargoyle, as its inability to block if I don't have a large hand size and it's 2 CMC don't make me super excited 90% of the time.

The idea behind it, at least for me, is that they allow me to put pressure on from multiple angles, and because I can get that 5/5 flyer with phantasm on turn 2, it means I can keep my opponents from building any real board state before turn 4 or 5 when their library is basically gone. It also is just a nice threat by itself, when I don't get the combos I need, or when mana is tight. Hedron Crab and Ruin Crab remove a few more cards, but they aren't very useful otherwise, which is why I feel that Jace's Phantasm and Vantress Gargoyle are a better fit for me.

As far as competitiveness goes, I'm mostly just looking to have a fun mill deck that i can throw into rotation whenever I get tired of the same old same old. I'm not too worried about tourney play.

Balaam__ on Blue/Black Budget Mill

1 month ago

Something that was explained to me when I was working on my own mill deck is that to be effective, one has to pretty much fully commit to Mill. It may not seem like much, but investing in creatures whose primary function is to deal damage is using resources in a suboptimal way.

Jace's Phantasm and Vantress Gargoyle themselves appear to benefit from Milling, but don’t contribute to your goal in a meaningful way. These creatures’ sole purpose is to take 20 life and chip away at it, while ignoring the 60 of your opponent’s library. The rest of your deck is designed to reduce the 60 in their library to 0, while ignoring their 20 life points. So you have two unrelated strategies functioning in tandem, neither working at full capacity, when you could have fully committed to one and achieved results faster.

The obvious recommendation would be to run the crabs—Hedron Crab and Ruin Crab—but that would probably interfere with your allotted budget, as well as necessitating that you retool the portion of the deck built to work around the phantasm & gargoyle, neither of which you may be willing to do.

I think what you have here already is fine as long as you aren’t actually trying to win tournaments with it, so if I were you I’d continue to shop this around for feedback and maybe a path forward will present itself. Again, there are plenty of people who use this site that are actual experts, not armchair theorists in tinfoil hats like myself.

wallisface on

1 year ago

Some thoughts:

Phaeophyta on Steal Yo Girl for Connor

1 year ago

Scrib Nibblers Siphon Insight Wizened Snitches Expel from Orazca Cathartic Adept Vantress Gargoyle Mind Flayer Sage of the Beyond Krydle of Baldur's Gate Consuming Aberration Dazzling Sphinx Palladium Myr Ruin Crab Dark Ritual Negate Dimir Charm Infernal Grasp Aetherspouts AEtherize Winds of Rebuke Stolen Goods Extract from Darkness Necromantic Selection Talent of the Telepath Ravenform Pyxis of Pandemonium Commander's Sphere Hedron Archive Firemind Vessel Sisay's Ring Ur-Golem's Eye

RDWDTR on General Mills

2 years ago

Thanks, I'm glad you found my suggestions helpful! 8 crabs would be ideal but I'm guessing it's 6 for budget purposes. I think you'll find the main board Dismember to be useful in almost every matchup, but you can always move it back to the sideboard if you dislike it. This looks solid for the budget, but you'll still have to play test and adjust accordingly for your meta.

BTW, when I was listing all the counterspells in my first post, I meant you could use whichever seemed best to you, not all of them :P It will probably be more useful to have a diverse range of cards in your sideboard, since a SB is essentially 15 cards to help you deal with certain matchups that your usual 60 struggles against. Jamming 6 counters might not be the most optimal choice, I was thinking more along the lines of 2-3 of one particular counter, sorry for my miscommunication lol. In most of your games, I'm assuming your 4 mainboard counters will get the job done, and then you can just bring in a pair of targeted counters like, say, 2 Essence Scatter for creature decks or 2 Mystical Dispute for other blue decks. This is going to depend entirely on your meta though. Three other cards caught my eye when I was looking at blue mill lists:

Merfolk Secretkeeper: If your budget can't allow 8 crabs, this is a good replacement for some number.

Drowned Secrets: Similar to Sphinx's Tutelage, just more milling. Not sure if it's better or worse exactly.

Vantress Gargoyle: Reminds me of Jace's Phantasm, and you can tap it to mill someone if it's unable to attack or block. It's pretty scary once it's able to swing.

A few cards you can consider for your sideboard:

Aether Gust: Great against green and/or red decks

AEtherize: Could really save you against aggro/beatdown decks

Rebuild: Good against artifact based decks (e.g., affinity, hammer, Urza).

That's about all I have for now. I imagine you'll continue to adjust as you get spins in with this. Let us know if it's at all competitive.

9-lives on HELL MILL

2 years ago

Ohh oh wow, I was thinking the 0 mana wasn't there for Archive Trap! That's very nifty, and completely makes sense why you're running these cards.Fraying Sanity is definitely worth it. Turn 3 isn't that bad, most people who have the fastest decks there are aren't too good. Haha sorry, I misspoke when I said 'any and all mill' will be useful. 1 card milled is almost nothing compared to the deck size and relative amount you're going to have to mill and the mana you're spending.4 turns later if you cast Mesmeric Orb is only 4 cards. What most people do in MTG is get the lowest mana value for the greatest effect.And if they are not doing this even if they have a bunch of 5 MV cards, say, they're relying on the value that card has with its power and their ability to get that mana You can almost completely rely on this principle in most decks. But MTG has so many variants nad tactics that it's very difficult (or easy?) to build a non-linear deck. As long as you have things to keep you alive while you're milling it's good. Whatever you wish for: counterspells, blocking, tokens, bouncing, tapping, arresting, lifelink, lifegain, etc. I mean we're not making a toolbox deck, so of course everyone is specialized to some degree. And wouldn't you be using Scheming Symmetry and Assassin's Trophy for Archive Trap? The second seems great, as it is removal as well as useful for the use of the third. I am not that good at this game, so you can take my advice with a skeptical temperament. Sword of Body and Mind isn't /that/ bad. 10 cards is definitely worth it if you're doing that every turn after 4. Think of it as reassurance. Mill decks aren't the fastest things in the world, and are comparable to burn decks, but milling is probably harder to do. Thing in the Ice  Flip is a very rewarding card if you have a lot of 1 mana drops that are instants and sorceries. Just look at it's P/T. 7/8 is usually vanilla at least 6 or greater mana. Because of this method of playing, like the Thing in the Ice  Flip is why you'd play Vantress Gargoyle. And, if I would give you one something that MTG is about is not SPEED; it's FUN! :]

9-lives on HELL MILL

2 years ago

Hello, Hastapasta

.I wouldn't use Mission Briefing because that's 2 blue mana plus the mana of Archive Trap which is 3 generic and 2 blue. Total 7 MV. You would have to not only have four blue mana, but also 3 generic. This is one reason why I told you to go with Slither Blade, not only because you'll be guaranteed to hit the opponent player, but it also balances out your colors. I also wouldn't rely on Maddening Cacophony for halving decks unless you are in a long game. It is 1 generic and 1 blue plus kicker of three generic and one blue, making for 6 MV total. Very cost intensive. And Mind Funeral is pretty good... luck of the draw a lot of the time though, and most people are putting around 20 lands into 60 card decks, which makes for around 33% chance of drawing one. But not only would you be milling, you would be removing lands from his deck, which is spectacular. I'd keep Mind Funeral. Oh, and it would be good to have tokens, or aggro creatures, or simply counterspells. You can't be beaten to death by the opponent whenever you are milling. 4x Slither Blade would not only give you what you need for Sword of Body and Mind but also supply chump blockers. Walls would be very useful for this. Fog Bank is very useful against combat damage, and that's what you're basically against besides non-combat damage, which in that case the best card for that is The Wanderer. but the latter would be good for sideboard and the former for many kinds of battles. Vantress Gargoyle is great for doing whatever you want it to, but i would only use it to mitigate damage and destroy creatures; i wouldn't say you can win a game with it.

Hastapasta on HELL MILL

2 years ago

Yep! That's the point. Their deck will be gone. I should have been clearer when it comes to explaining why Traumatize is better than Maddening Cacophony with kicker.

Mission Briefing allows Archive Trap dupe.

I decided to put Vantress Gargoyle in the side. Mind Funeral is not that effective. Or is it? Please let me know.

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