Let's break Zada (spoiler from BFZ)

Commander (EDH) forum

Posted on Sept. 8, 2015, 1:23 p.m. by MagicalHacker

Hey guys! So Zada, Hedron Grinder was spoiled today, and I wanna see what interactions and synergies can be done with her (him? her? Zada sounds like a girl's name, but goblins probably have different naming customs). Here's what I've got so far:

  • Lots of tokens to get as many copies as possible (Including targeting spells, like Spawning Breath and Twinflame)
  • Instants/Sorceries that target a creature that also draw a card
  • sieze the day & Overblaze
  • Instants/Sorceries that give target creature a buff
  • Arcbond could be funny

Any other ideas?

VampireArmy says... #2

Precursor Golem : double effects

Purphoros, God of the Forge : mass pump and alt win con

Dualcaster Mage : inf combo and utility

September 8, 2015 1:55 p.m.

meecht says... #3

Genesis Chamber
Blazing Shoal
Mogg Infestation
Firecat Blitz
Tempt with Vengeance
Goblin Offensive (maybe too expensive?)

September 8, 2015 1:59 p.m.

MagicalHacker says... #4

VampireArmy,

  • Golem Foundry is just a weaker version of Zada. Not seeing the interaction here.

  • Purphoros, God of the Forge is indeed good for a token deck, but I'm thinking that he won't be used to his full potential in a deck that is focusing on getting lots of instants/sorceries on the stack.

  • Dualcaster Mage, what is the synergy for this one?

LiveForChaos, I've already mentioned those effects with my aforementioned category of "Instants/Sorceries that give target creature a buff"

meecht,

  • Genesis Chamber isn't going to be very good when I'm planning on making lots of tokens rather than casting a lot of creatures

  • Blazing Shoal is already gonna be under my aforementioned category of "Instants/Sorceries that give target creature a buff"

  • All your other suggestions are under my aforementioned category of "Lots of tokens to get as many copies as possible"

September 8, 2015 2:18 p.m.

VampireArmy says... #5

Twinflame effects synergize for the combo

Your deck will inevitably need tokens to maximize the usefulness of the spells. I see no reason not to open yourself to possible alternative routes to winning via etb damage or the anthem Firebreathing effect for when you can't get your general to stick

September 8, 2015 2:24 p.m.

phc says... #6

It's too bad he isn't multi-colored. It looks like he'd work well with Heroic or Prowess types. Rather than use him as a general, how about as part of the other 99 in a Shu Yun deck?

September 8, 2015 2:57 p.m.

lemmingllama says... #7

Dualcaster Mage has synergy because of things like Twinflame. The copies resolve first, and then the newly made Dualcaster Mage token can copy the original Twinflame. This makes infinite copies of all your creatures.

September 8, 2015 4:07 p.m.

meecht says... #8

You can only make infinite copies of Dualcaster Mage. If you ever not target the Mage, you won't get another copy of Twinflame.

You also need another creature on the field in order to cast Twinflame, too, before flashing in Mage.

September 8, 2015 4:23 p.m.

Ohthenoises says... #9

Best way to break him? Slot him into an already built Ink-Treader Nephilim deck. :)

That being said, Twinflame, Crimson Wisps, Panic, and Heat Shimmer are all really good cards to use due to the fact that you want dudes, this gives you MORE dudes.

Also, like VampireArmy said: add things like Purphorous, God of The Forge to take more advantage of this.

Also, Krenko, Mob Boss + Titan's Strength/Brute Force seems like a good way to pump out dudes as well.

Goblin token tribal backed up by red pump spells.

September 8, 2015 4:40 p.m.

FinchFalcon says... #10

meecht- that would be true, except for the General's ability. So you play dualcaster. Cast twinflame on Zada. Create copies for each other creature you control. Copies resolve, including the one targeting Dualcaster, before the original resolves. New dualcaster copies original Twinflame, targeting Zada, repeating the process. Infinite of everything.

September 8, 2015 5:09 p.m.

lemmingllama says... #11

@FinchFalcon I just realized that Zada says "When you cast". So there is no real combo, the Dualcaster Mage/Twinflame combo doesn't need Zada at all.

September 8, 2015 6:35 p.m.

ComradeJim270 says... #12

This is probably now the card I am most excited about for BFZ. I am seriously considering building a deck for him. He's especially hilarious for several reasons:

  • "meh" combat tricks suddenly become absurd with him, including cards that are very easy to acquire. See: Temur Battle Rage.
  • It says "when you cast". Good luck to any blue player who wants to counter all those copies! A counterspell can stop the spell from hitting Zada, but the rest of your legions get the effect.
  • Arcbond and Chandra's Ignition.
  • Any red cantrip that hits a creature can become a massive draw spell. In mono-red.

That's awesome. I was going to build a King Macar, the Gold-Cursed deck next. Now? I'm not sure.

September 9, 2015 1:31 a.m.

MagicalHacker says... #13

Okay, so I'm listing down the actual cards for the already mentioned types of cards that work well with him/her/it/whatever:

1) Drawing lots of cards:

2) Giving everything double damage:

3) Making lots of tokens:

4) Giving everything some first strike or trample:

5) Scrying a lot:

6) Buffing all the creatures (ordered by most to least):

7) Unique effects:

And again, this is just the instants/sorceries, but I don't think there are any other instants or sorceries that are worth playing in a Zada deck, so it's KINDA comprehensive.

September 9, 2015 2:43 a.m.

NotaNetDeck says... #14

I'm in complete agreement with Ohthenoises. Ink-Treader would make a great template.

M a g i c a l H a c k e r , Precursor Golem is plenty useful for redundancy -- say, if Zada's hit with a Darksteel Mutation. Also, I know we're forgetting a bunch of stuff in the unique effects category, but I can't seem to think of any right now...

September 13, 2015 3:27 p.m.

MagicalHacker says... #15

The only difference being that Ink-treader isn't actually a legal commander, but you know, who cares about rules anyways. And yeah, Precursor Golem is definitely another Zada, albeit weaker and at a higher mana cost, but how exactly does that "break Zada"? I searched through all instants and sorceries in the colors that target, so I doubt I missed any, but it is always a possibility.

September 13, 2015 3:33 p.m.

Ohthenoises says... #16

M a g i c a l H a c k e r there are plenty of playgroups that have house ruled the nephilim as commanders, I meantioned that in my origional post, but you know, who cares about reading anyways.

September 13, 2015 3:47 p.m.

NotaNetDeck says... #17

You don't have to use Ink-Treader as a general to carry over the same ideas when building around him...

Golem does not break Zada but my point is it deserves a place in the 99.

Upon searching through red instants/sorceries with "target creature," I'd say you have most of them covered, and there are fewer options than I thought. Maybe Volt Charge? Also, it's worth noting that while Act of Treason-style effects don't become Insurrections, they can double as Burst of Speeds.

September 13, 2015 3:51 p.m.

NotaNetDeck says... #18

Also thx for the backup Ohthenoises

September 13, 2015 3:53 p.m.

MagicalHacker says... #19

"Carry over the same ideas when building him": carry over cards from a nonlegal four color commander deck to mono red. Am I missing something here?

Precursor Golem's spot in the 99 is a highly subjective choice, as I just don't see him doing enough to be worth it.

Volt Charge is something I see a decent downside for an upside that works with a specific subset of cards that aren't currently going into the deck, which sets it up to be a card that is probably not worth a spot. You're absolutely right in that it feels like there should be more options, but alas there are not. :(

I am not sold on playing 3 mana for an option of Burst of Speed on a card that works the best with sac outlets, which currently have no other reason to be in the deck.

In other news, sorry for my harsh attitude, I've just have been having an off-day.

September 13, 2015 6:01 p.m.

NotaNetDeck says... #20

Not "harsh" as much as almost-deliberately misunderstanding, but I'll give you a pass.

Carrying over the same ideas would mean creating as many targets as possible and casting spells that are fair before they're copied a billion times (e.g. Crimson Wisps). The truth is the lack of blue -- in particular for Nivmagus Elemental -- and the restriction of the ability to spells you cast which results in the targeting of only your creatures makes Zada very narrow, minimally breakable and, admittedly, he/she/it/whatever and Ink-Treader much less similar.

Most of the cards you need but don't have listed at this point don't trigger Zada -- Tempt with Vengeance, Firecat Blitz, and Rapacious One in addition to various Goblin token producers should give you enough targets. Consider the aforementioned Purphoros, God of the Forge and Haze of Rage since you'll have so many bodies. You'll also want Gamble, Anarchist, and Charmbreaker Devils. Given that they don't break Zada, I should assume these will be non grata but the better-natured side of me wants to suggest them to you anyway.

September 13, 2015 6:34 p.m.

Ohthenoises says... #21

As I said before, the best idea would to be to spam tokens (krenko, empty the warrens, etc) and then yse red pump spells like Titan's Strength and Brute Force.

That also gives you the suprise win factor as well.

September 13, 2015 6:38 p.m.

VampireArmy says... #22

Let's keep in mind his lists are bare essential lists. They aren't meant to be too specific but act as a starting point

September 13, 2015 6:43 p.m.

sonnet666 says... #23

An fyi to all interested parties: Chandra's Ignition does NOT work well with Zada. Each copy resolves one by one and fizzles if the creature it was targeting has left the battlefield, which it will if it gets hit by one or more Chandra's Ignitions.

Also casting Arcbond is only worthwhile if you have the highest life total and you're sure it's going to kill the table.

Glad I'm still the only person who thought of using Fiery Gambit with him though.

September 20, 2015 8:01 p.m.

Kaity_32 says... #24

In Blue red, there is Fated Infatuation and Dragonshift that both give some nice abilities.

September 22, 2015 5:29 p.m.

ComradeJim270 says... #25

I disagree, sonnet666. Doing a couple thousand damage to everyone and causing the game to end in a draw just makes Arcbond even more worthwhile!

And I'm going to break Chandra's Ignition too.

September 22, 2015 6:28 p.m.

sonnet666 says... #26

It won't usually end in a draw. each instance of damage will resolve 1 by 1 with a round of priority between each trigger, so quite often it will result in a win for the player with the highest life total.

Also, if you're the player with the lowest life total, you'll be out of the game first, and all your arcbond'ed creatures and damage triggers on the stack will be exiled. So really you'll have just played a spell that said, "Deal some damage to each creature and player, then lose the game."

Bad play all around.

September 22, 2015 9:27 p.m.

sonnet666 says... #27

I'm reading that over and realizing it was kinda confusing. Let me put it in simpler terms:

Arcbonding Zada for a ton of damage will only ever kill the players with lower life totals than you, and yourself.

Players whose life totals are higher than yours will usually go on playing.

September 22, 2015 9:32 p.m.

ComradeJim270 says... #28

Well good thing you're on a color that excels at dropping opponents' life totals.

Both of those spells are too damn funny not to include!

September 22, 2015 10:41 p.m.

This discussion has been closed