No no no, I am not trying to put it in the list right now, I will wait to see him before

Ironically the "best" way to break The Gitgud Monster is outside his color identity since Seismic Assault goes infinite if the deck is built properly.

I can also see him adding value to existing dredge decks but as a commander I just don't think he does anything that Savra or Meren doesn't do for G/B

I would like to petition to move my Ghost Council up from tier 5

But the Frog could be a dedicated dredge deck, all the dredge cards are in thise colors... There must be a combo available to abuse dredging and lots of cards in graveyard like this... I will try to do my best so we can judge him properly after.

As far as the Mono green discussion on who makes the better elfball:

I'm having a hard time keeping personal bias out of it but here's my 2c.

Ezuri, while being a strong commander is more suited to a 1v1 environment. He is far easier to predict and far easier to kill, while he protects the other elves he does precious little to save himself. His playstyle is usually FAR more aggressive, encouraging you to tap out on your turn to Overrun, if this CAN'T win the game then that's pretty much it.

Omnath, on the other hand, can play a more reactive game because, thanks to the floating mana, you are never truly tapped out. This means that it's far easier to hold up Krosan Grip or Beast Within and still have a gigantic monster.
Also, unless I'm mistaken, mana doesn't change while it's in limbo. This means that Cavern of Souls naming elf can just float a ton of mana as the game goes on and this mana will still make them uncounterable.

Another benefit is that he is easily capable of putting people in a quandary when it comes to boardwipes. Kamahl, Fist of Krosa basically reads "boardwipe, I dare you, all of your lands go too." since you have all of that floating mana.

Lastly, as to the argument of "oh but I kill omnath and the mana goes away". There are four things outside of the normal protection that can help keep your mana, Aluren (amazing with elfball decks as long as you can ensure that your opponents won't get the same value since you can dump your hand at an opponent's EoT), Yeva, Nature's Herald, Nim Deathmantle (part of the Avenger of Zendikar combo with Ashnod's Altar), and good ol Vedalken Orrery.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not campaigning for Ezuri RL to be demoted but simply listing my reasons why I feel omnath outclasses him.

Ezuri should retain his T2 seat due to his popularity in duel commander, he IS quite strong, if one track.

So I've been trying to keep up with comments and if I missed the reasoning I apologize, but why is Jeleva tier one?

She is a strong commander but tier one strong? I know the strategy is a grixis storm deck, but how does that land her in tier one? If you cast her and she hits Ad Nauseam and is killed before she can cast it, the spell is exiled. Her colors lack the ability to deal with enchantments permanently. My friend runs her and his list does not revolve around a storm combo (he goes for Enter the Infinite to end the game) and it is one of the stronger decks in our meta, but my Omnath, Locus of Rage deck is able to compete against it. I am in no way advocating either decks but if my tier three general can keep the deck from winning I do not see how she holds tier one power. Also if you are running grixis Storm doesn't that defeat the whole advantage of Jeleva? She wants to play big spells free.

I know someone posted a decklist but I cannot find it.

Also I disagree with Uril, the Miststalker being potentially moved down. While the color combination may be considered weak, it still allows access to tutors necessary for the strategy. I'll look for the decklist I saw but one user (I think his name is just uril) made a pretty sound list. He has two. One that focuses on a Karmic Guide combo and one that focus more on uril. Both deck lists seem strong. The one that focuses on th combo, if it fails, still has a great back up plan.

Now I haven't seen any lists but this is more a theory, but I feel Nayal can be good for control with cards like Blood Moon (which is a damn good card) and uril as a win condition is not a bad route. Again, this is just a theory. I haven't really looked into a possible deck. But regardless Uril is a strong commander.

In terms of the SoI commanders, I'm going to hold judgement until the set comes out.

For the Ghost Counsil, I feel tier five is fair. He offers a sac outlet but I feel as though that's it. That life gain life loss he adds isn't the best for commander. I feel he fits the tier 5 description.

In terms of Jeleva, I'm not saying move her down, I simply am asking for more clarification as to her tier one power.

Also the tier description still has 6 tiers.

Unless I keep missing it, there is no tier six anymore right?

I wrote the last tier descriptions, so I guess I'll rewrite them. Give me a little bit.

Aggro-Blaster: Jeleva is mostly a placeholder general/plan D card for Grixis Storm. You mostly ignore her as you combo off, and the power of EDH storm makes it one of the fastest decks in the format. Jeleva is rarely cast, but can be used when you're trying to win through countermagic or you've just run out of gas. I like comparing it to Scion Hermit Druid combo; you rarely cast your commander, but you use it for its colors, and if the main function of your deck gets stopped, you can cast your commander and hope.

Here's Moxnix's list.

I apologize ahead of time for beating a dead horse but it is obvious I'm missing something when it comes to Ezuri. What makes Ezuri, Renegade Leader even close to tier 2. Are we are discussing multiplayer commander? If we are talking about tiny leaders or dual commander I agree he is easily one of best mono green commanders available, but in multiplayer he simply does not scale well to a 4 player pod. His regeneration is truly not that useful since green doesn't play a reactive game well and overrun is more times than not a win more ability.

I would also not move Reaper King down. He's a fine tier 2 five-color general. As for the new generals, I agree that it's a little silly to rank them before seeing them in action, but they have to start somewhere.

• Archangel Avacyn Really cool card, but her ability is worded so it's nearly impossible to efficiently abuse and she's in a really bad color combo. Tier 4.

• Odric, Lunarch Marshal Lots of words, but not very good. By himself he's an overcosted body, and his ability wants you to have a bunch of creatures in play with different abilites, which is a glass-cannon strategy to begin with and also doesn't work all that well with tokens. Mono-white doesn't help either. Tier 4. On a seperate note, it seems weird to me that he's the first creature to have his ability. The way this card is worded also makes me think Skulk will eventually become an evergreen mechanic.

• Olivia, Mobilized for War Cheap and evasive, which is nice, and has a cool ability. Has reanimator implications too since she's a discard outlet, so there's a backup win con built in. My gut says tier 3, though Rakdos generals always seem to be worse than they look. It's also brave of her to still be ready for war after losing a limb.

• Sigarda, Heron's Grace Giving you hexproof is super relevant, and her graveyard ability palys well in grindy situtations. She actually seems like a decent Stax or hatebears commander, though worse at both than Selvala or Gaddock Teeg. Either way it's hard not to see her as tier 3.

• The Gitrog Monster I love the balls off this card, and I will brew with it incessantly, but I don't see it above tier 3 to start. Can dredge your whole deck with Dakmor Salvage, okay with Smokestack and great with Crucible of Worlds and fetchlands, so I could see this card reaching tier 2 status someday once a critical mass of enablers exist. He(?) might even make Creeping Renaissance a decent card. However two things bother me about this card that have almost nothing to do with the card itself. First, it's annoying that they keep printing cards that are fantastic with Titania but can't be played with Titania as the commander. I can only hope that Wizards eventually prints a Jund legend that interacts with lands somehow so I can finally jam them all in the same deck. Secondly, it's pretty tilting that we get a frog legend (legendary frog, what a time to be alive) before we get a wurm legend. I mean, come on.

Going back to the Gitrod discussion: I agree with Sleazebag. It's impossible to properly place a commander until it's been in the format at least a few months. This is especially true when trying to sneak him into one of the competitive Tiers, which are reserved for commanders capable of winning at cuttthroat tables.

am I the only one who feels like Wort, Boggart Auntie doesn't belong in tier 4? I mean, she might not belong in tier 3, but she is miles above stuff like Zhuge Jin, Wu Strategist, Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran and Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen.

I mean, her recursion is super aggressive.

I actually think I broke Gitrog:

When I first read the card I didn't realize that the last ability triggers when a card is put in your graveyard from anywhere. That actually makes him several orders of magnitude more awesome.

Here's the combo:

Play Gitrog with Putrid Imp in play and a dredge card in your hand or graveyard. (Phantasmagorian in the yard works too, but is more complicated)

Discard the dredge target and a land to kick it off (or just wait til your draw step I guess...)

Replace the draw with dredge and respond to any Gitrog triggers by discarding your dredge card again.

Repeat as many times as you like (with Stinkweed Imp or Golgari Grave-Troll you should be able to keep it going with 1/3 lands)

Once all the necessary cards are in your yard, Dread Return a Necrotic Ooze and generate infinite mana off of Palladium Myr + Pili-Pala + Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon.

There are a variety of ways to win at this point, but I like Creeping Renaissance into Yawgmoth's Will into whatever.

One thing to note is that you have to keep track of the number of Gitrog triggers on the stack and make sure they don't outnumber the number of cards in your library. REMEMBER THAT YOU CANNOT DREDGE WITH AN EMPTY LIBRARY, so track your triggers so you don't kill yourself. If your library and triggers get within a single dredge of each other, just draw the rest of the cards, and use Cabal Therapy and Phantasmagorian to get any cards out of your hand that you need to.

Notable cards for building this deck: Survival of the Fittest (self-explanatory), Buried Alive (sets up Phantasmagorian + Golgari Grave-Troll + Stinkweed Imp all by itself), Bloodghast & Reassembling Skeleton (can help you cast Dread Return), Entomb, Mesmeric Orb, Oracle of Mul Daya (all around good card, and the top card reveal can clue you in on whether you want to draw or dredge a particular card), Retrace (this is just cool with Gitrog), Lion's Eye Diamond (how often is this usable in EDH?).

Pros:

• Likely wins the turn you cast Gitrog
• Minimal number of cards needed to combo off
• Combo pieces are varied, interchangeable, and mostly don't need to be in your hand.
• While he's not the greatest Stax general, he does play well with Stax elements, which can keep people from having the resources to disrupt your combo.

Cons:

• Combo can be stopped by instant speed removal on Gitrog (but you can force it through by discarding extra lands)
• I haven't thought of a back up plan if someone counters your Dread Return

I think this is probably enough to endorse Gitrog for T2, and seeing as the combo is highly consistent, it might even be a contender for T1 if people can mix in enough Control/Stax elements.

@sonnet666 i would love for you to make the list, or someone else, b/c that is something i would play at least once with some proxied up cards.

SOMEONE MAKE GITROG EDH FOR THE LOVE OF FUCK

when I say that, I mean someone make one similar to that list with other components such as Strip Mine Crucible of Worlds cards and such.

@sonnet666 Here's another combo option; Kermit makes tons of black mana (or infinite with a graveyard reshuffle effect) and dredges your deck with Dakmor Salvage+Skirge Familiar, then you reanimate/Morgue Theft either Bloodrite Invoker or a Necrotic Ooze using Invoker's ability and kill the table.

Ok, so I read over my own post and realized that Creeping Renaissance into Yawgmoth's Will doesn't work. Whatever. You've got a Necrotic Ooze that can tap and untap itself as many times as you want and infinite mana, I'm sure you can think of some way to kill everybody.

DERPLINGSUPREME, Wort is T4 because unless you are playing goblin-token-agrro, there are really only like 5 Goblins that are worth playing in EDH, and getting one creature back to your hand a turn isn't really that great even if you are feeding them to sac outlets.

Remember that T4 is still the "average" casual tier. Commaders in T4 aren't terrible, they're just not strong.

And we should probably demote Zhuge Jin, Wu Strategist, unless anyone wants to come out and support him?

Also, thegigibeast, this is why I thought it was good for there to be six tiers. It makes T4 and T5 look better so people aren't constantly suggesting we move up bad commanders. It's a psychological thing.

oh, so, I decided to make a list.

I'm still searching out some cards, but its pretty solid as is

The Gitrog Monster

yavimaya_eldred, I'm not sure where your getting all that mana, or how that's supposed to be more consistent than Gitrog + discard outlet + dredge card, but thanks for bringing up Morgue Theft. That would probably work well as a backup card.

When thinking up combos I always try to keep three things in mind. In order of importance: How useful are the cards when they're not part of the combo. How few cards to I need to get the combo going? And how tutor-able are my combo pieces?

sonnet666 Discard Dakmor Salvage to Skirge to make B, frog triggers to draw which in turn triggers Salvage, dredge Salvage and discard to Skirge, rinse, repeat. Gaea's Blessing is the easiest way to make it infinite, the big Eldrazi are probably too clunky to run but do the same thing.

Here's a rough Gitrog list I threw together. No idea if cards like Null Profusion or Lotus Vale are actually playable in this kind of deck though. After some fishbowling, it feels like a pretty powerful shell that could be tier 2 worthy with a better deckbuilder than me.

Dammit, man. And here I thought I'd be the first. I'm only about twelve cards in, myself, but, yes, he seems to have some serious combo potential. The real question becomes what to do with the potentially infinite mana/putting your entire library into your graveyard? Is there an Exsanguinate that you can flashback? At the very least, tutoring for lands should be piss easy in GB.

And, from what I can tell of the combo you guys just mentioned, you wouldn't actually lose to drawing a card, as you could always just dredge Dakmor Salvage, even if there aren't any cards left in your library. Am I wrong?

yeah, so Gitrog needs to be added

and to be quite honest, I feel like he's easily tier 2, possibly even breaking into the tier 1 area with some form of Hermit Druid blowout deck.

Does anyone else find the idea of running Eon Hub with him pretty cute?

yavimaya_eldred, Ah, when you first said it you made it sound like Dakmor Salvage + Skirge Familiar was something you did after generating infinite . I get it now. I'm not sure if it's more consistent since you specifically need Dakmor Salvage, but Skirge Familiar is a good discard outlet, so it's probably worth including.

Also, has anyone noticed how may imps there are in this deck? Cavern of Souls 2016, #ImpTribal.

NoOneOfConsequence, With the Necrotic Ooze combo I mentioned, even something a simple as having Endbringer in your yard will result in a win. It's really just a question of what's most elegant. The cards should fit the deck so they're not a dead draw if you run into them before you combo off. I was considering Devoted Druid + Quillspike + Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, but that seems a little convoluted.

Also, in the Comp. Rules Dredge has a little rider that specifies that you can't Dredge a card unless you have at least N cards in your library, where N is the card's dredge number. I checked before posting.