Zhuge Jin, Wu Strategist

Legendary Creature — Human Advisor

Tap: Target creature is unblockable this turn. Play this ability only during your turn, before the combat phase.

Legality

Format	Legality
1v1 Commander	Legal
Archenemy	Legal
Canadian Highlander	Legal
Casual	Legal
Commander / EDH	Legal
Commander: Rule 0	Legal
Custom	Legal
Duel Commander	Legal
Highlander	Legal
Legacy	Legal
Leviathan	Legal
Limited	Legal
Oathbreaker	Legal
Planechase	Legal
Quest Magic	Legal
Tiny Leaders	Legal
Vanguard	Legal
Vintage	Legal

Discussion (9)

Roryesquire on

3 years ago

Hey battle_jelly your suggestions are on point, I love it, thank you!

It is a proxy but I'm trying not to go over 9000 on it as that's pretty much his point of play, I'm trying to involve the rest of the play group and just phase him out on combo play, I feel like if I slow him down it'll just level out the playing field!

Man I feel like I'm already dialing in the deck, which is Awesome stuff for a 5 game EDH player, going against a CEDH player.

Drew a few hands with the Deck last night, ran real good, feel like I need a Progenitus + unblockable creature utility like; Thasa God of the Sea , Venser, the Sojourner or Zhuge Jin, Wu Strategist

He also runs a, cyclonic so I might look at a swerve sub for counterspell replacement!

Gattison on The Man,The Myth,The Mill | Persistent Petitioners

5 years ago

Since you can tap any Advisor, have you looked at Elder of Laurels, Lady Sun, Mayor of Avabruck  ^Flip, Trusted Advisor, Zhuge Jin, Wu Strategist, Lu Su, Wu Advisor or any other Advisors?

Elder of Laurels and Zhuge Jin, Wu Strategist together could be an alt wincon maybe?

ClearPearl on The Hidden Ocean-Forest City

6 years ago

As a more detailed comment from the one I made the other day-

Part I) Cards to remove and why:

A) Angler Drake- You have this in here mainly so you can abuse your "enter the battlefield" effects. There are plenty of cheaper options to do this.

B) Storm Sculptor- Basically the same reason as Angler Drake.

C) Sylvan Primordial-Depending on who you ask, this card may or may not be banned. Might as well play it safe and take it out.

Part II) Cards to consider removing and why:

A) Emperor's Vanguard- It's a decently powerful creature for its cost and can help you get land, but there are some more reliable ways to get card advantage. If you add more ways to get through opponents defenses (i.e. unblockable effects) then I guess this can stay.

B) Blossom Dryad- It's good because it can untap the lands that tap for two mana, but you might want to go for a more reliable, cheaper mana source (i.e. Birds of Paradise, Curse of Bounty, Deserted Temple, Krosan Restorer, Bloom Tender, Elvish Mystic, Gyre Sage, Llanowar Elves, Quirion Elves, Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary, Sylvan Caryatid

C) Carnage Tyrant- It's a powerful creature, and it's hard to get rid of, but other than that, it doesn't offer much. Considering you have other power creatures in your deck (i.e. Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger), you might want to consider replacing the tyrant with something just as big that can offer more synergy with the rest of your deck. Consider: Sphinx Ambassador or Colossal Whale, among others.

D) Last Thoughts- Gives you a single card with the promise of more cards later, which is nice, but for 4 mana you could probably reliably get more card draw than this card offers.

E) Growing Rites of Itlimoc- In many decks this card is very powerful, but for your deck, in playtesting it turns out you rarely have 4 creatures out at a time, making this card not really worth having in your deck. You have plenty of other ways to get loads of mana, so you can probably remove this one without problem.

F) Jace's Erasure- It's nice to mil cards especially since you're drawing cards anyway, but mil is an unreliable way to debilitate your opponent unless your whole deck is built around the strategy. You might be able to remove a good card or two, but it's a gamble that often doesn't pay off in the long run.

G) Loxodon Warhammer- Good card, not much synergy with your deck. There are better cards that you can use to combo things.

Part III) Small creatures to consider:After playtesting a bunch, it seems your deck likely needs a few more small creatures so you have a better chance of defending yourself or making a dent in your opponent early on. Here are a few suggestions:

A) Invisible Stalker- Small dude, unblockable and hexproof. It's pretty neat and you can combo with those cards that let you draw if you deal damage to an opponent.

B) Ohran Viper- Smallish creature, gets you early card advantage. Deathtouch is a nice touch.

C) Slith Predator- Smaller than Ohran Viper but it gets bigger the more often you poke an opponent with it.

D) Slith Strider- The best of both Ohran Viper and Slith Predator. You might draw a card, you might make the little guy bigger, either way, you get a good early-game bonus.

E) Thada Adel, Acquisitor- Smallish creature, and chances are your opponent as a good artifact or two you can abuse. Early on you can exile cards you don't want your opponent to use, and later on you can just summon that shit for yourself.

F) Zhuge Jin, Wu Strategist- Smallish creature, makes one of your other creatures unblockable every turn. Early game helps with the little dudes like the Slith bros or Thada Adel, late game helps with your big guys to deal big damage to your opponents.

G) Stealer of Secrets- Another small dude that gets you card advantage early on.

Part IV) Removal to consider:The other big thing I noticed when playtesting with your deck is you don't have much removal for when your opponent sneaks past your counter spells. Here are a few suggestions to remedy that.

A) Cyclonic Rift- If you would put any of my suggestions in your deck, you should definitely put this one in. Reacts effectively to early-game threats as well as late-game ones (Plus it hilariously screws with token decks since tokens die instead of going into a hand). When you overload it, it bypasses both hexproof and indestructible. Very few cards can resist it at that point.

B) Wash Out- Can be pretty helpful, especially if your opponent doesn't play blue or green. Works as cyclonic rift in regards to bypassing defenses.

C) Dissolve- Yeah it's another counter spell but this one lets you scry.

D) Voyage's End- Removes a threat and lets you scry.

E) Duplicant- You probably remember this one from my karador EDH. It's not as good here, but it's still good removal. Exiles an enemy while getting yourself a decent creature in the process.

F) Phyrexian Ingester- Blue Duplicant.

G) Brittle Effigy- Exiles a threat and puts your opponent on edge because WHO WILL YOU EXILE OH GOD!

H) Heartseeker- Somewhat reliable destroy effect for creatures, which is uncommon in blue.

I) Curse of the Swine- Exiles multiple creatures and replaces them with cute lil piggies (I love Theros lore, it's just straight-up greek mythology)

J) Reality Shift- Cheap exile effect with an insignificant drawback.

K) Pongify- Cheap destroy effect with a drawback that's only a big deal in the early game.

L) Rapid Hybridization- Same as Pongify.

M) Lux Cannon- Pretty decent late-game removal, but it takes time to set up.

N) Ugin, the Spirit Dragon- Pretty neat planeswalker addition with removal and card draw.

O) Steel Hellkite- Pretty neat creature that removes stuff, easy to hit opponent with your unblockable shenanigans.

P) Krosan Grip- Good cheap removal.

Q) Acidic Slime- Good mid-game creature. Removal and deathtouch.

R) Song of the Dryads- Can hilariously be used on commanders without sending them to the command zone.

S) Evacuation- The blue version of a board wipe.

Part V) Abusing "Enter the Battlefield" effects, aka "Flicker" effects.You probably want a few more of these.

A) Deadeye Navigator- Flicker whatever you want as many times as you want, provided you have the mana for it. You can change soulbonds every time you flicker.

B) Ghostly Flicker- Flicker two different things and you can do it in response to an opponent targeting something to prevent it from succeeding.

C) Archaeomancer- You want this almost as much as you want eternal witness.

D) Eternal Witness- Bring back any card into your hand. Wanna use any of your instants/sorceries again? Cuz ya can. Want a creature back? Revive that shit.

E) Equilibrium- Works on both your creatures and your opponent's.

F) Mulldrifter- For three mana, it's basically a sorcery that draws you a couple cards. For five mana, it's a creature that can be flickered.

G) Palinchron- Considering the lands you have that provide double mana, you may end up with an infinite mana combo here.

H) Nephalia Smuggler- Reliable flicker effect.

I) Augury Owl- Small flickerable creature, plus you can get an early-game scry which is nice.

J) Omenspeaker- Same as the owl.

G) Cryptic Annelid- More scrying.

H) Fool's Demise- Keep your big guys alive while abusing their "enter the battlefield" effect.

I) Mystic Snake- Since you love countering so much, why don't you flicker to get even more countering?

J) Prime Speaker Zegana- Hey this looks kinda like your commander, doesn't it?

K) Strionic Resonator- This works on any trigger effect, which includes every one of your "enter the battlefield" effects.

Part VI) Land ShenanigansYou can always use more land shenanigans. It's pretty easy to replace a basic land with one of these options.

A) Hinterland Harbor-Good dual land. Chances are you can get it out untapped, and it's not even a big deal if it comes in tapped.

B) Rogue's Passage- Why is this not already in here?

C) Breeding Pool- Another good dual land option. It also counts as a "forest" or "island" for effects that specify those words (i.e. Hinterland Harbor).

Part VII) Other cards to consider and why:A) Prophet of Kruphix- Really synergizes with your counter spells. Feel free to tap out all your land to play a creature, cuz at the beginning of your opponent's untap step (even before their upkeep), all your land is free to use again to counter stuff (and use other instant-speed effects).

B) Genesis- Bringing back your dead creatures is usually a good thing.

C) Sphinx Ambassador- Fun big card.

D) Colossal Whale- Another fun big card.

E) Hunter's Insight- Easy way to get a good amount of card advantage.

F) Veil of Secrecy- Creature gets hexproof and unblockable for a turn, which is neat.

G) Artful Dodge- More unblockable.

H) Boundless Realms- ALL THE RAMP

I) Protective Bubble- The blue whispersilk cloak.

J) Aqueous Form-Unblockable AND scry

K) Into the Wilds- More ramp is nice.

The problem with EDH is you ONLY get 100 cards, which always sounds like a lot more than it is. At one point it just becomes a question of what do yo personally like the most. Have fun narrowing this list down.

ClearPearl on The Hidden Ocean-Forest City

6 years ago

Cards to consider: Invisible Stalker, Ohran Viper, Slith Predator, Slith Strider, Sphinx Ambassador, Thada Adel, Acquisitor, Zhuge Jin, Wu Strategist, Strionic Resonator, Cyclonic Rift, Hunter's Insight, Veil of Secrecy, Hinterland Harbor, Rogue's Passage, Artful Dodge, Boundless Realms, Protective Bubble, Aqueous Form, Colossal Whale, Dissolve, Into the Wilds, Stealer of Secrets, Voyage's End

Gates88 on Commanders by Power Level [EDH Tier List]

7 years ago

First of all, I can assure you that I'm not biased towards Rayne. I've never built a Rayne deck in my life and I probably never will when there are so many better mono-blue options. I may be biased towards the combo-control route for mono-blue over other strategies, but that's because I honestly think it's the best route to go with for that color identity. Swinging with creatures en masse is not mono-blue's strong suite and a voltron strategy is extremely slow in a multiplayer format, even with access to time walk effects. So yeah, I'm probably biased towards the combo-control strategy.

Second, perspective is important here. None of the commanders I mentioned in my post are better than Azami, Arcum, Teferi (either one), Jace, or even Talrand. Most of them are just straight-up bad cards and the only reason to run them as your commander is to hide a mono-blue combo-control deck behind a seemingly innocuous commander, which you probably won't even cast. The key is to look at how they compare to eachother and how the small advantages they provide benefit the deck's general strategy.

You have very good points about Uyo and Tomorrow. Copying Turnabout with Uyo didn't occur to me, and what also didn't occur to me was the possibility of stacking Tomorrow's and Lab Maniac's replacement effects or just bouncing Tomorrow. These did not occur to me at the time, and because of that you are probably right about them being as good or better than Rayne. This is largely due to my lack of inexperience with either of them and I apologize for my ignorance.

However, I disagree with you on most of your other points. I'll start with the board wipes argument. Take a look at the optimized lists linked for the tier 1 and tier 2 decks and look at how many board wipes are in each. Cyclonic Rift is in literally every blue deck (not hyperbole, it really is) and Toxic Deluge is in an overwhelming majority of the black decks. That's about it. For the decks that run both black and green, Pernicious Deed is usually in there, most red decks have Vandalblast if they don't have better options, and mono-green generally runs Bane of Progress although Gx typically doesn't. Those are closer to tech choices than anything else. It's true that most of those lists are for decks that gain a really significant effect from their commander (Zur, Teferi, Yisan, etc.), but any highly optimized list in those same colors is probably going to be similar in its construction. Based on this reasoning, it's logical to infer that the average optimized EDH deck runs maybe 3 to 4 board wipes. By comparison, most optimized EDH decks run about twice as much spot removal, making it more likely that your stuff will be targeted. The only real exception to this are mono-red decks who have to run a lot of board wipes, but that's mostly because mono-red is just so bad at tutoring that they need to run as many redundant effects as possible. Additionally, board wipes aren't cast unless the board state is really problematic. Your commander is a 1/1 with a situational ability and since you're mono-blue combo-control you're probably running less than 10 creatures in your deck, so if your opponents do board wipe, it's probably not because of you. And since you're blue, there's also the trivial argument of "just counter it". I was reluctant to bring this up because it's both a cop-out argument and doesn't work on Supreme Verdict, but that doesn't mean it's not true.

You also say that permanents won't be targeted until they're an issue, which is true, but I feel like you're forgetting how many powerful permanents blue has access to. A lot of people aren't going to let Back to Basics, Rhystic Study, Mystic Remora, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy  ^Flip, or Consecrated Sphinx stay around for more than a turn or two. Heck, a lot of people will probably want to blow up your stronger mana rocks if you're accelerating too fast for their liking. So really it's not that uncommon for your permanents to be targeted.

Speaking of mana acceleration, I really, really want to know what kind of games you're playing where you can "get up to 15 mana easily" without being interrupted by MLD or stax effects. I run a ton of ramp in both my competitive and non-competitive EDH decks, and, infinites aside, I have never gotten that much mana, nor have I ever seen anyone get that much mana. Other than High Tide, I can see no way to reasonably do this. Even with High Tide, you need to have a lot of other mana at your disposal. And even if it was as easy to get to high amounts of mana as you say it is, why would you want to do anything besides immediately win the game at that point? I'd much rather play Enter the Infinite or Omniscience (or both) than Jin-Gitaxias if I get to that much mana.

Speaking of Jin-Gitaxias, let's talk about him. You seem to think I am underselling his strengths even though the first thing I said was that his effect was more powerful than anything else that any other mono-blue commander in tier 4 could do. Let me be more clear about Jin-Gitaxias and his strengths and weaknesses then. Jin-Gitaxias is the best creature to cheat into play in EDH bar none. However, because he costs 10 mana, you need to construct your deck around him if you want to actually cast him from the command zone. Because of this, you'll need to run a ton of mana acceleration which takes up a lot of card slots, and since he's in your command zone for all your opponents to see, they probably won't let you get to 10 mana if they can help it and will either blow up your acceleration or just win before you. Because of Command Beacon, cheating him into play with Show and Tell (or Quicksilver Amulet or Braids or whatever) is viable, but chances are your opponents are going to do whatever they can to stop it. In the example you stated, the card economy for Rayne seems kind of similar to what Jin-Gitaxias gives you proportional to their mana costs, with the only difference being that Rayne gives you that advantage slowly over several turns where as Jin-Gitaxias is immediate. You're right about Jin-Gitaxias having an extremely powerful effect though. If he cost 7 mana he would be tier 2 at least. If he cost 8 mana he would be a solid tier 3. If he cost 9 mana he would be at the top of tier 4, borderline tier 3. But since he costs 10, he's stuck in the middle of tier 4.

Now let's talk about the last general you mentioned explicitly, Ertai. First of all, I think you misinterpreted what I said about him. I didn't say that Ertai needed card advantage to function and that he was inferior to Rayne because he lacked it (I did say that about Hisoka, but anyway). What I said was that having a draw engine (Rayne) is better than having a way to counter spells (Ertai), and I stand by that statement. Also, I could have easily turned your argument against you nearly word for word: "She's blue. She has counterspells. there are more important things to do, like actually winning the game." I didn't do that because a) it's childish to do so and b) they both have access to countermagic and card draw, so the questions simply becomes which is better to have. Rather than countering that eldrazi (which won't prevent cast triggers btw), I would rather have a commander that lets me draw into my own win condition or threat or is a big threat on their own. Neither Ertai nor Rayne is a big threat, but Rayne can at least draw me into threats, which is more proactive. I guess ultimately it comes down to what type of deck you'd want to play, proactive or reactive. Personally I think proactive is better in a multiplayer setting, but that's likely just a product of my own playstyle.

As far as not explaining myself goes, I concede that I did slack off on a lot of the descriptions (seriously though, why aren't Lorthos and Tromokratis tier 5?). I spent the first paragraph talking about why Rayne is good, so I felt like I didn't need to repeat myself every single time. If I did that, most of the descriptions would be "X is good at Y but costs too much/is not well suited to multiplayer/doesn't have a lot of support in blue, and therefore Rayne is better because she costs 3 mana and draws cards." That's pretty much what my analysis of each general was anyway only without the last 8 words. I suppose I should elaborate on what I meant for each of the commanders that I said was "low impact" or something similar or just didn't write a whole lot on (except Lorthos and Tromokratis, I don't have anything more to say about them).

• Alhammarret, High Arbiter - Unlike most of the other commanders on this list, his effect is symmetrical, which is good in a multiplayer setting. However, since it can only target cards that are currently in your opponents' hands, there are ways to get around it (Brainstorm, Scroll Rack) and it doesn't necessarily hit your opponent's win condition. This makes it a relatively weak effect, and the fact that it costs 7 mana makes it even less desirable.
• Barrin, Master Wizard - Bouncing a creature on command can be good, but the fact that you have to sac a permanent in order to do so will usually leave you at a card disadvantage or, at best, only a temporary advantage. There's also the fact that a lot of EDH decks don't rely heavily on their creatures, making his ability sometimes completely irrelevant. The only real draw of Barrin, like I said before, is the infinite he has with Palinchron+Genesis Chamber. He has very little utility outside of this combo because of the disadvantages I mentioned before.
• Empress Galina - 5 mana to cast and then you need to either wait a turn or have Lightning Greaves in play and then pay 2 more mana to steal a legendary permanent. Stealing is a powerful effect, but if you can't win the game with what you've stolen then the impact is severely lessened. I mentioned stealing Gaea's Cradle before, but a much more efficient and immediate solution to Cradle is Strip Mine, which costs 0 mana and can take care of Cradle without any other cards in play. Only being able to steal legendary permanents is also quite narrow, even in a format where players are almost always guaranteed to have at least one legendary creature.
• Hisoka, Minamo Sensei - Hisoka is like a worse version of Ertai. He can counter stuff but he almost always puts you at a card disadvantage in order to do so. Even in blue, it's still difficult to continuously have enough cards in hand to answer all your opponents' threats. If something happens to your draw engine, you're in big trouble and will likely run out of gas. Compare this to Rayne, who is a draw engine (a very poor draw engine but a draw engine nonetheless) and you can see that Rayne has some good advantages over it.
• Kaho, Minamo Historian - Mana Severance combo is her best option and it's not a bad option by any means. However, it is fragile and if your opponents know what you are doing then you will be targeted down. Because you need to run so many lands for Mana Severance to work well, you have less room for things that would make your combo more resiliant (additional countermagic, etc.)
• Keiga, the Tide Star - Keiga is a lot like Galina - they both cost a lot of mana and they both steal things. However, because they are so similar they also both have similar weaknesses, namely that they both depend on your opponents having good things to steal and no way to prevent them from being stolen. Keiga is also notably vulnerable to Homeward Path, which many creature-based decks run. And additionally, if you can't win the game with what you've stolen, what's the point? Personally I'd rather cast Consecrated Sphinx when I have 6 mana since it's better than any other creature in EDH anyway.
• Lu Xun, Scholar General - Any card that can draw more cards is not a bad card, especially if it's an unblockable creature. The problem with Lu Xun is that he's just so slow. If you don't have Lightning Greaves, you need to cast him, wait a turn, and draw a card. Meanwhile, Rayne comes down earlier and can potentially draw more than one card per turn cycle. Unless you're going for a dedicated voltron deck, it should be pretty clear why Rayne is better.
• Vendilion Clique - This card is a staple in every other constructed format, so it's not immediately obvious why its effect is weak in multiplayer, but it is. When you play Clique, you target one of your 3 opponents, Distress them, and then they draw a card. You have an additional permanent on board so you're not down on card advantage, even if that permanent is very small and doesn't do much while it's actually in play. The opponent you targeted lost a card from their hand, but potentially drew another bomb, so they may or may not be down on card advantage. Your other two opponents are either completely unaffected by not being targeted or are benefiting from you forcing your other opponent to "discard", so they are the ones who are truly benefiting from it. So it doesn't really provide you with any advantage and helps your other opponents more. Rayne, however, gives you advantages.
• Zhuge Jin, Wu Strategist - I'm trying really hard to say more than just "Sun Quan is better", I really am. I don't have much more to say beyond that though. Making things unblockable to swing in and kill your opponent is kind of a slow way to win the game in a multiplayer setting. The best card you could make unblockable with this would probably be Blightsteel Colossus, and that card already has trample and infect so anything that blocks it probably won't block it a second time.

I hope this helps elaborate on why I think the other commanders are bad. As for why Rayne is good, I hope I explained that well enough.

Also, if you don't care whether or not Rayne moves up or down on the tier list, why did you respond to me in the first place? Do you have a problem with me or something?

Gates88 on Commanders by Power Level [EDH Tier List]

7 years ago

I don't usually talk too much about rearranging the lower tiers because who cares, but I think that Rayne, Academy Chancellor could potentially move up to Tier 4. Before I explain why, I want to point out the assumption I'm making: That any mono-blue general in tier 4 is going to basically be a combo/control deck that aims to deal with early threats until it assembles enough combo pieces to go off with an infinite combo (Palinchron+Deadeye Navigator, Metalworker+Staff of Domination, Future Sight+Helm of Awakening+Sensei's Divining Top, etc.). I feel that this would be the best strategy overall for this archetype, even though you could go different directions with some other generals (Tromokratis voltron, Sun Quan, Lord of Wu midrange, that one Kaho, Minamo Historian+Mana Severance deck with a million upvotes, etc.). With that in mind, let's look at Rayne and the tier 4 generals and see which of them lend themselves well to that strategy.

• Rayne, Academy Chancellor - Being able to draw a card whenever one of your permanents is targets is a very good effect. This helps out a lot in the early/mid game when you have effects like Rhystic Study or Back to Basics that your opponents will want to deal with and it protects your mana rocks from spot removal. It also helps on the combo turn - if one of your combo pieces is targeted by instant speed removal, you can potentially draw into a counterspell. The downside to this is that the format naturally favors mass removal, but if every list is optimized then spot removal will likely be more common since it's more mana efficient. There's also the relatively minor issue that you'll almost never draw 2 cards off her ability, but if you really want to then you can run Diplomatic Immunity.
• Aboshan, Cephalid Emperor - Aboshan is a card that's at odds with itself. He wants to be a stax general, but he costs 6 mana and doesn't do much to help you ignore your own stax effects. He also has no utility for your combo win condition, and his second ability is basically just a glorified Fog. I'd say Rayne is better.
• Alhammarret, High Arbiter - 7 mana Meddling Mage. Rayne is better.
• Ambassador Laquatus - Of all the mono-blue generals, Laquatus lends himself to the combo/control strategy better than most of the others on this list because he's an infinite combo outlet. I know people are going to talk about how mill is weak, so let me pre-empt those comments by saying that the win condition for Laquatus is not to mill your opponents but to mill yourself and then play Laboratory Maniac. I'm hesitant to say that he's better than Rayne because they both serve different purposes, but I'd say they're about equal.
• Barrin, Master Wizard - His ability is too narrow to do a whole lot. He does go infinite with Palinchron+Genesis Chamber but overall I just think Rayne is better.
• Braids, Conjurer Adept - Braids doesn't really lend herself well to the combo/control archetype. She's more of a midrange general who wants to drop eldrazi into play, and she's quite good at it. Because the symmetry can backfire, I'm still going to say that Rayne is better, if only slightly.
• Empress Galina - Stealing Gaea's Cradle is great, but overall I think she's just too slow. Rayne is better.
• Ertai, Wizard Adept - In my opinion, having a draw engine is better than having a repeatable way to counter spells. Although you could argue otherwise, I'd say Rayne is better.
• Hisoka, Minamo Sensei - See above, only even more so since Hisoka requires a way to keep his hand full to be viable. Rayne is better.
• Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur - The most powerful effect of any mono-blue commander in tier 4 is attached to the highest mana cost of any blue legendary. This might be a controversial statement, but I would say that Rayne is as good if not better than Jin-Gitaxias, if only because she can come down much, much earlier.
• Kaho, Minamo Historian - Yes, yes, we all know about the Mana Severance deck, but that deck is extremely vulnerable to hate and will likely only work on opponents once. It's like Sidisi Ad Nauseam with no backup plan. I'd say that Rayne is better.
• Keiga, the Tide Star - As much as I love this guy, he costs too much mana and the effect is relatively weak in a multiplayer setting. I think Rayne is better.
• Lorthos, the Tidemaker - I feel like the only reason this guy isn't tier 5 is because he can 3-shot people with commander damage. Rayne is better for obvious reasons.
• Lu Xun, Scholar General - 4 mana Shadowmage Infiltrator. Actually, Shadowmage Infiltrator would be a better general simply because it would give you access to black. Anyway, this is kind of simiar to Rayne but it's inferior because it's slower and only draws you one card at a time.
• Patron of the Moon - Goes infinite with Amulet of Vigor but requires you to run a bunch of moonfolk if you want to cast it for a reasonable mana cost, none of which are particularly good except maybe Oboro Breezecaller. Still, I think that this is one of the few mono-blue commanders in tier 4 that is even or better with Rayne.
• Sun Quan, Lord of Wu - On the one hand, Horsemanship is an ability that is almost impossible for most decks to deal with and effectively makes all your creatures unblockable. On the other hand, 6 mana is pricey and swinging with creatures is generally not the most efficient way to win in a multiplayer setting unless you have access to Craterhoof Behemoth. Rayne is better.
• Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar - Very cool effect, but 6 mana is a lot and since your draws will be replaced it means you can't win with Laboratory Maniac. I'd say Rayne is better.
• Tromokratis - see Lorthos, the Tidemaker. Seriously, what are these guys doing outside of tier 5? They're not playable in any constructed format and they're barely playable in limited.
• Uyo, Silent Prophet - I hate to sound like a broken record, but 6 mana with a weak effect is just not good. Rayne is better.
• Vendilion Clique - The best card on this list outside of a multiplayer format. Very low impact in multiplayer though. Rayne just does more for you.
• Zhuge Jin, Wu Strategist - Sun Quan is better, and Rayne is better than both of them.

So to sum up, although there are some mono-blue commanders in tier 4 than Rayne, she is better than a large majority of them. For this reason, I believe Rayne should be tier 4 instead of tier 5.

DaringApprentice on All Possible Commanders

7 years ago

These are all the Blue commanders I could find that weren't in your list:

Aboshan, Cephalid Emperor, Alexi, Zephyr Mage, Alhammarret, High Arbiter, Ambassador Laquatus, Blind Seer, Braids, Conjurer Adept, Chisei, Heart of Oceans, Cloudhoof Kirin, Empress Galina, Hakim, Loreweaver, Heidar, Rimewind Master, Higure, the Still Wind, Hisoka, Minamo Sensei, Ixidor, Reality Sculptor, Keiga, the Tide Star, Lady Sun, Linessa, Zephyr Mage, Llawan, Cephalid Empress, Lu Meng, Wu General, Lu Su, Wu Advisor, Meloku the Clouded Mirror, Mistform Ultimus, Muzzio, Visionary Architect, Myojin of Seeing Winds, Patron of the Moon, Reveka, Wizard Savant, Soramaro, First to Dream, Sun Ce, Young Conquerer, Sun Quan, Lord of Wu, The Unspeakable, Uyo, Silent Prophet, Vendilion Clique, Venser, Shaper Savant, Zhou Yu, Chief Commander, and Zhuge Jin, Wu Strategist.

sonnet666 on Commanders by Power Level [EDH Tier List]

8 years ago

Ok, so I read over my own post and realized that Creeping Renaissance into Yawgmoth's Will doesn't work. Whatever. You've got a Necrotic Ooze that can tap and untap itself as many times as you want and infinite mana, I'm sure you can think of some way to kill everybody.

DERPLINGSUPREME, Wort is T4 because unless you are playing goblin-token-agrro, there are really only like 5 Goblins that are worth playing in EDH, and getting one creature back to your hand a turn isn't really that great even if you are feeding them to sac outlets.

Remember that T4 is still the "average" casual tier. Commaders in T4 aren't terrible, they're just not strong.

And we should probably demote Zhuge Jin, Wu Strategist, unless anyone wants to come out and support him?

Also, thegigibeast, this is why I thought it was good for there to be six tiers. It makes T4 and T5 look better so people aren't constantly suggesting we move up bad commanders. It's a psychological thing.