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Legality
| Format | Legality |
| 1v1 Commander | Legal |
| Archenemy | Legal |
| Canadian Highlander | Legal |
| Casual | Legal |
| Commander / EDH | Legal |
| Commander: Rule 0 | Legal |
| Custom | Legal |
| Duel Commander | Legal |
| Highlander | Legal |
| Legacy | Legal |
| Leviathan | Legal |
| Limited | Legal |
| Oathbreaker | Legal |
| Planechase | Legal |
| Premodern | Legal |
| Quest Magic | Legal |
| Vanguard | Legal |
| Vintage | Legal |
Crater Hellion
Creature — Hellion Beast
Echo *(At the beginning of your upkeep, if this came under your control since the beginning of your last upkeep, sacrifice it unless you pay its echo cost.) *
When Crater Hellion enters the battlefield, it deals 4 damage to each other creature.
Steven89 on
Sneaky Purphy B. [Primer I guess]
2 years ago
Hi Hercules23 :)
thanks for your input. I also had Feldon as the commander before Purphoros and I completely agree with you. The same goes for your description about red and MLD (I also have a Ruric Thar whose strategy is exactly what you described, by breaking parity with MLD). This is why I never considered including MLD in Purphy B.
Regarding the MDFC Lands, this deck generally cannot play upfront (it happened like two times for me) so having lands enter the battlefield tapped when you need them untapped is less punishing for this deck (unlike for a combo deck or interaction heavy decks, those decks really need untapped lands) However, I agree that the cost of them coming into play tapped is meta dependant. I wouldnt want to play those cards if my meta is highly tuned and the games are over at turn 6 in average. In my meta, the games take a bit longer and having them come into play tapped is rarely a downside because of the philosophy of this deck/my playstyle: I either am not being attacked by my opponents because I often have open mana (I might have a fatty to cheat into play to block their haymakers/valuable creatures) or I am just not threatening (either because I dont even have Purphy B. out or no real hand to deliver fatal damage). In all those cases, drawing a MDFC land from the top with no other lands in hand in a situation in which I really need a untapped land is rarely a real downside because of the reasons stated above. This might seem not convincing, but I played and still play this deck a ton and have >50 games with the MDFC lands included and it happened only once or twice where it really hurt. There were far more games in which these niche "extra" spells performed extremely good, especially Kazuul's Fury  Flip. Spikefield Hazard  Flip also plays better than it looks, there are many value creatures with toughness 1 and Spikefield Hazard also prevents reanimation shenanigans and graveyard based combos which your opponents never expect from a mono red deck with only one mountain untapped. I can totally see your point though and understand you having doubts about those inclusions. I can just say: You should really give them a try :)
Keldon Firebombers You are totally right, the wheel argument I made is a weak one, I tried to justify my cut :D But still, I had to cut something. This list is so tight... It seems rather easy to cut other stuff like Bolt or Abrade but this would be the wrong way.
Ryusei, the Falling Star the "without flying" part is a real downside, at least in my meta. I'd rather have unconditional mass damage like in Crater Hellion and for most creatures 4 damage is enough :)
Spinerock Knoll Damn, that one totally flew under my radar, thanks for pointing that out!
Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion Yeah I was thinking about this one before. You are completely right, it cycles through my hand and even better: It costs 4 mana and can be thus played before Purphy B. which is a huge advantage: Many of the value creatures like Neheb, the Eternal or Terror of the Peaks cost 5 cmc which makes it wierd and not optimal since Purphy B. need to be played asap. I haven't found a cut for this Neheb, as I'd rather have a wheel effect. The wheel costs less mana and gives me unconditionally a new hand whereas this Neheb needs to connect. Also, you can never generate card advantage with this card. The "downside" of a wheel though (my opponents get a new hand) can be neglected as I am usually the person with the emptiest hand and thus gain the most value of a wheel. If I weren't playing all those wheel effects I would totally play this card :)
Extra Combat cards: Yeah, they are soooo good and you are again right^^ I am honest, so far I have 2 extra combat step cards in my list Scourge of the Throne and Moraug, Fury of Akoum and I haven't felt the need for more extra combat step cards. I guess I could include one more card. If you include to many of those extra combat step cards, you will reach a treshold at which they become less effective since you have less "beef" that benefit from those extra step cards. This is also why I decided against both the cards you mentioned in favor for the scourge and Moraug: They are themselves big beaters and can deal insane amount of damage without the help of other beaters. Moraug alone won me games (I had devotion of 5, so that Purphy B. was able to attack and I had 2 fetch lands available). Also, winning with Purphy B. mostly boils down to one explosive combat step. Combant Celebrant with "only" one extra combat step is certainly worse. Port Razer has the potential to have more than one extra combat step, but he needs to connect which is not guaranteed at all. Granted, Scourge also provides only one extra combat step, but, as I said, this guy is beefy on its own, and a dragon for Dragon's Hoard .
Everflowing Chalice I missed that one :) thanks
Regarding MLD: I completely agree with everything you said (it really is silly for green mages to complain while they stomp faces with 20 mana on turn 6) except for one thing: You won't win a game "fast" with 3 mana left and Purphy B. out after setting everything back with MLD or resource denial. You beat face for one time and then your creature dies. You might have Mimic Vat or Sundial of the Infinite or any other recursion but half of the MLD cards also destroy artifacts. You also need to get back to 3 mana after MLD cards like Jokulhaups / Obliterate which will be troublesome as those cards cost 6-7 mana, so you probably already played most if not all of your lands and rocks. If you reach that game state in which you have 6-7 mana available your hand is most likely rather empty, so you most likely wont have enough beater to deal with the whole table. "Not having enough beater to deal with the whole table" is exactly why you usually cannot play upfront with this commander. This is why you actually need your opponents to deal damage among them, so you can close out the game in an explosive turn with your limited beef (see philosophy, and yes, this is why this deck usually sucks hard if only combo and blue mages are on the table). MLD and also stuff like Smoke / Mudslide actually prevents exactly that: Since you are denying your opponents resources, they will stay at high life points which means that your average beater (that was cheated into play and dies after one turn) is just not enough. You'd rather want to hardcast them in this state of the game which is impossible though because of MLD. My point is: I do not thinkg that having an indestructible commander is a reason enough for playing MLD. You would need card- and mana-generating permanents like Chandra, Torch of Defiance or Outpost Siege that won't get destroyed by MLD.
Treasonous Ogre and Alena: I dont really see the need of having big mana in this deck. It is counterintuitive as this deck is all about circumventing the big mana costs with the ability of Purphy B. Maybe you can convince me otherwise :)? I could see those cards worth running, if your meta adapted to your commander by always saving the removal card for him. This is actually the biggest weakness of this deck. Handling Purphy B. once is devastating as 7 cmc is not always in reach.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx True, no real downside, but the devotion of this deck is usually quite low as there is almost no board presence except for the turns in which you attack. It might be advantageous in exactly those moments to have 2-3 more mana available during that turn, maybe just enough to cheat an additional creature into play. Just be careful not to include too many of colorless lands :)
Ziusdra on Card creation challenge
4 years ago
Ciasina, the Sound Mage
Legendary Creature - Vampire Wizard
Flying, lifelink, haste
Eminence - Whenever you pay the echo cost of one of your creatures, if Ciasina, the Sound Mage is in your command zone or on the battlefield, you may pay . If you do, create a token that's a copy of that creature, except it loses Echo and both of those creatures get +1/+1 until end of turn.
2 / 5
This commander demands Crater Hellion and Karmic Guide and Avalanche Riders among many other strong candidates...
Same challenge
feyner on
Greven Hansen, predator Hunter
4 years ago
Permanents that let you pay life for free are allstars in Greven. Fortunately, the ones you don't have are also cheap. Moltensteel Dragon , Souldrinker , Soul Channeling , Unspeakable Symbol are all good.
After dumping up to 16 life into these, you're total might be getting low. That's why lifelink is critical for Greven. You're missing the cheap ones again: Cartouche of Ambition , Vampiric Link , Butcher's Cleaver .
Lastly, to make Greven's menace count, you want to clear at least all but one of each opponent's creatures (without killing Greven). You aren't including Fleshbag Marauder , Plaguecrafter , Merciless Executioner , or Vona's Hunger ; all of which clear one or more creatures from EACH opponent! Not to mention some all-star Greven board wipes like Chandra's Ignition , Ritual of Soot , and Crater Hellion . Spot removal can fill the gaps; pack a few.
A couple other notes. First strike can help Greven win any combat without a scratch, regardless of blockers. Double strike is obviously better. Card draw is better on permanents: Greed and Arguel's Blood Fast Flip are good, so is erebos. Chainer, Dementia Master lets you lose life to reanimate, so does Phyrexian Delver (reanimate on a stick).
I'd add one land and some usefull bigger creatures. Get some five and six toughnesses in there and you can put Greven on the two-hit clock without a lifesink. The goal is to lose life after all.
I like where you're going with this thing. Hopefully I've shown you some cards you missed!
xaarvaxus on
Vaevictis Asmadi, Lover of Big Dumb Scary Monsters
5 years ago
Maybe add Journey to Eternity Flip for some additional boardwipe protection? It will save a key creature so you don't have an empty board and then flip and let you start putting your creatures directly into play. Its a bit of a slow recovery but you are packing a lot of big beaters here so each one has a lot of impact.
And for some additional removal; Manglehorn kills artifacts and slows down opponents' use of mana rocks they bring in later, Reclamation Sage is almost as versatile as the Slime, and Crater Hellion is a [limited] creature boardwipe in red. And considering the avg power of your creatures, Sarkhan's Unsealing could be a kind of machine gun for you.
Something like Sidisi, Undead Vizier would be a good include to fetch the Surge. Sadly this has gotten much more expensive in the last couple of years.
Overall though, this deck has a pretty brutal mana curve. I don't know that I've seen a deck with an avg CMC of 5+ and to support Primal Surge you're not running some of green's best ramp spells so I would expect it to be a bit slow in building. I think you might need to trim some of the real expensive creatures for things like Beast Whisperer , Greater Good , Guardian Project and Soul of the Harvest for some additional card draw as well. Just with your basics alone I'd also make 2 swamps and 1 mountain into forests as you have a lot of green in your casting costs and not enough sources to support it.
vbfabled on
Oops, All Creatures!
5 years ago
While Torpor Orb doesn't see play in my meta, I see your point. Crater Hellion for the sweeper seems good
xaarvaxus on
Oops, All Creatures!
5 years ago
You may want to consider Thrashing Brontodon and/or Caustic Caterpillar just because Torpor Orb is a thing.
For more creature removal: Spitebellows for targeted, Crater Hellion for double power Pyroclasm .
The_Oddest_Panda on
Ruric Thar Creatures only!
5 years ago
Hi! I think the following gods could help you (they are creatures when you cast them, so no taking damage from your commander): Rhonas the Indomitable, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Nylea, God of the Hunt, Xenagos, God of Revels
And maybe a semi boardwipe could help - Crater Hellion
A haste enabler - Cyclops of Eternal Fury
Bloodbraid Elf for a free creature.
And I agree to the first comment, Bane of Progress should really be included.
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