Back:Abolisher of Bloodlines
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Eldritch Moon (EMN)||Rare|
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Creature — Vampire
Sacrifice three other creatures: Transform Voldaren Pariah.
Madness (If you discard this card, discard it into exile. When you do, cast it for its madness cost or put it into your graveyard.)
Voldaren Pariah Discussion
3 weeks ago
I'm going to lay it all on the table here to make my train of thought as clear as possible, and back up my statements with source material. I spent way too much time on this already, so I might as well post it!
Here's a Scryfall search showing all creatures with the Vampire subtype. Of them, thirteen (a mere 5.8% of all vampires) have an additional race subtype. Of those thirteen, three are undead Vampires ( Vampire Revenant , Nirkana Revenant , and Skeletal Vampire ), four are from the Eldritch Moon block and are Vampire Horrors ( Weirded Vampire , Voldaren Pariah Flip, Stromkirk Occultist , and Stromkirk Condemned ), and four were printed before the Grand Creature Type Update (hencefore GCTU) ( Vampiric Dragon , Vampire Hounds , Mirri the Cursed , and Irini Sengir ). The final two are Aetherborn Vampires from Kaladesh ( Yahenni, Undying Partisan and Gifted Aetherborn ).
All of this points to Vampires with two races being the vast minority (again 5.8%) of all Vampires ever printed. Aside from the pre-GCTU Vampires, they all have set-specific reasons for having two racial subtypes or are undead (which seems counter intutive as I've always considered Vampires to be undead already...but I digress).
Here again (for posterity) is the link to the GCTU Announcement. This clarifies what the stance is or R&D in their approach to creature subtypes. From the article, "...we implemented the "race class" model for Magic creatures..." This establishes a baseline for every single MTG creature from September 2007 onward. Elf Druid, Human Warrior, Zombie Knight, etc. This is a framework for card design.
I want to be clear, its a guideline, not a hard and fast rule. In general, they wanted to keep it simple as part of the New World Order of MTG which you can find in an article here. While the article doesn't explicitly state that creatures typing is part of the NWO, it can be inferred from it that simplicity is important in MTG going forward. With that in mind it only makes sense that they would try very hard while designing cards to keep to the "race class" system for both consistency and simplicity. Are they never going to print a card with two races? Of course not, as you mentioned Frilled Mystic and as I mentioned Vorel of the Hull Clade . Wizards isn't afraid to work outside their own general guidelines if it suits their purposes, fits with the lore (this one is important for this argument), and doesn't unbalance the game.
By your argument, every Vampire would have the "Pre-Vampire-Race Vampire Class" e.g. Elf Vampire Druid, Human Vampire Warrior, Vampire Zombie Knight. Could they do it? Sure, but it goes against R&D's stated goal for what they want for MTG going forward by adding needless complexity (and letterhead) to cards.
Your example of Ahn-Crop Invader brings up an interesting point though and I have a thought about it. Let's use some cards with current links as examples. For you side I produce Marauding Boneslasher . A Zombie Minotaur 'Race Race" just like your example. For my side I produce Merciless Eternal . A Zombie Cleric "Race Class." I think what this shows is that when Wizards does put two races on a card it is unlikely be two "Common" races. E.g. Zombie Human, Elf Goblin, etc., unless there are extreme circumstances (Looking at you Vorel). Again I think it comes back to complexity. If every undead or mutated creature had to state its pre-death/mutation type, there'd be way too many of the core tribes in the game. The vast majority of Vampires and Zombies were originally humans judging from their art. By giving cards like that the Human subtype, Humans as a tribe would become overly powerful simply from having a large pool to draw cards from. Keeping the number of races/classes on a card to a minimum could potentially be balance related.
1) Multi-Race Vampires are small percentage of all Vampires ever printed.
2) Wizards wants to consistent in its product and has chosen the "Race Class" model for subtypes
3) Wizards wants to keep the game simple when possible. Extra subtypes go against this and as such are only used when crucial mechanically (e.g. Horrors for the Eldritch Moon block) or from a lore perspective (e.g. Yahenni, Undying Partisan )
3 weeks ago
So I posted my big response here by accident. Since I'm here anyway I just wanna say that for what its worth, I see where you are coming from and agree with you 100%!
2 months ago
Hello! The first and the main question: what's your budget? Because you need to fix mana base at first: Watery Grave , Drowned Catacomb or Darkslick Shores instead of those dual lands you have. Speaking about creatures: Cryptbreaker is one of my favorite zombies. Card advantage plus madness enabler - and very cheap. Unbreathing Horde isn't bad but Diregraf Colossus is much better. Voldaren Pariah Flip? Just because its madness cost and transforming effect? I think Grave Titan is better but it's a question of taste (and budget of course). You can also use Fleshbag Marauder + Gisa and Geralf . And what do you think about Endless Ranks of the Dead ? Some words about sideboard: hand disruption - Duress (but Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek are much - much! - better), control and discard - Compelling Deterrence (cheap and fun, yes), removal - Vraska's Contempt .
2 months ago
Stuff I'd cut:
Duskborne Skymarcher - not enough impact
Erdwal Ripper - bad
Falkenrath Exterminator bad
Furyblade Vampire good for madness but not for this deck
Havengul Vampire not good enough
Kheru Bloodsucker bad
Licia, Sanguine Tribune only good as commander in a deck built around him. Here it's just bad for 8 mana
Nirkana Revenant not bad but not really that useful either since only about a thrid of your lands are swamps anyways
Voracious Vampire bad
Stuff I'd definitely add:
Anowon, the Ruin Sage
Bloodline Keeper Flip
Bloodlord of Vaasgoth
Mavren Fein, Dusk Apostle
Butcher of Malakir
Shadow Alley Denizen
Stuff I'd consider adding:
Bishop of Binding
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Legion's Landing Flip
Olivia, Mobilized for War
Patron of the Vein
Urge to Feed
Blood Baron of Vizkopa
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Voldaren Pariah Flip
Details as for why I'd add certain cards and cut others I'll give you the next time we get to talk :)
2 months ago
The overall combination is definitely better suited to a commander deck, especially under Markov since you can make use of all three major vampire colors and the Bloodlord of Vaasgoth , which plays all kinds of dirty with vampire tokens.
Regarding Keeper, the buff it provides is monstrous if you can get it flipped, but I don't especially care for it in a R/B Madness deck due to its low to the ground and swing nature -- Keeper is a much more midrange-y card, and I certainly recommend it more in a token based deck, alongside the Aristocrat.
I didn't even think to use Jump-Start cards in a Madness deck, but that's a pretty good idea -- discarding for an upside then using it as an outlet later is pretty sweet. Makes me rather sad there weren't more viable options printed, because the cost on Risk Factor makes it hard to hit a Madness trigger off of it, and Maximize Velocity is only sorcery speed. :(
When it comes to the Gorger, granting Madness to your other creatures is a hell of an upside, but in my testing I've found it is more difficult to plan around than I'd like, since you often don't have one in your opening hand, and they are extremely easy to kill. It's one of the major reasons I've been toying around with the Neonate again, just for a second one drop in the deck for more consistent turn 1 pressure.
I don't think I mentioned it before, but Call the Bloodline is another interesting option; I don't like it for a traditional red/black Madness deck, but it is quite nasty in a mono-black control variant I run alongside things like the Voldaren Pariah Flip, Murderous Compulsion , and Dark Withering -- you might look into that with how black heavy your list is, especially since you can work in Psychotic Episode for some Madness handhate and make better use of the Highborn, Condemned, and Captivating Vampire you are running.
2 months ago
Voldaren Pariah Flip, Nirkana Revenant , Patron of the Vein , Big Game Hunter are great additions, will look to pick these up I think. Tragic Poet is just in there as a reusable way of getting back enchantments, maybe it's unnecessary.
Thanks for the tip on the screen name, didn't realise it would be an issue. And again, thanks for the help.
2 months ago
Personally, I don't like the rate on Banewhip Punisher , Oathsworn Vampire (It's just really bad Bloodghast ), Sadistic Skymarcher , Tragic Poet , Foul-Tongue Shriek , Chalice of Life Flip, Fountain of Renewal , Bishop of the Bloodstained (Anthems and Sanctum Seeker will just be a lot more damage over the course of a game), Ravenous Chupacabra , Profane Procession Flip, or Underworld Connections . They're all just very low impact in a 40-life, 4-player format, with the exception of the last two. Profane Procession Flip is just so much more expensive than something like Rise of the Dark Realms , and while you're not the first person I've talked to who seems to think Underworld Connections is an acceptable substitute for Phyrexian Arena , man is it ever worse.
I don't like the rate on Call the Bloodline , either, unless you want to go deeper on a Madness or Reanimator theme, which could work, since you might want Voldaren Pariah Flip, anyway. If you did that, Call to the Netherworld gets back Elenda, Big Game Hunter is a nice replacement for Banewhip Punisher , Bishop of Rebirth could be decent, and bigger vamps like Nirkana Revenant , Patron of the Vein , Necropolis Regent , Guul Draz Overseer , Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter , and Butcher of Malakir become much more attractive. That would require a lot of changes, though. You could keep Profane Procession Flip and get a lot more out of Crypt of Agadeem that way, though, so maybe don't rule it out.
4 months ago
First, you seem to be missing 2 cards, you've only got 98 in your list.
Now for some suggestions...
Reconnaissance needs to be in this list. It allows you to attack with every creature, untap to avoid bad blocks, untap after first strike damage but before normal damage, and even untap after normal combat damage is dealt due to the creature being 'attacking' until the end of combat step ends (you untap in the middle of this step).
Now for a few cards with much smaller explanations lol...
Boros Charm - wraths are the bane of this deck, protect your board. Talisman of Indulgence/Fellwar Stone both deserve spots. Shared Animosity needs to be in the deck, not just the maybe pile. Diabolic Intent should replace Diabolic Tutor. Sorin, Solemn Visitor is better here by far for his lifelink your team +1 than your 2 current Sorins combined.
Now creatures... and I'd up your creature count to at least 33. Legion Loyalist, Rakish Heir, Yahenni, Undying Partisan, Mirror Entity, Dusk Legion Zealot and consider more flyers like Falkenrath Aristocrat and Voldaren Pariah Flip.
Anyways, I hope this helps and feel free to check out my list for ideas. Edgar's Dega Vampires. Upvotes on any of my lists is appreciated.
Voldaren Pariah occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%