commanders that make you the prime target
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Aug. 9, 2013, 10:51 p.m. by zachi
I posted this on another site, but i thought i would see what they thought was here. Persoanlly, when i see Kaalia of the Vast , Sen Triplets , Zur the Enchanter or Rafiq of the Many my hate tends to travel there mostly. But what generals do you tend to give the most hate to?
I get targeted when I play my Reaper King commander. I don't blame them though, Reaper Cannon is brutal
August 9, 2013 11 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #4
Sliver Overlord , Sliver Queen , and Sliver Legion will get you hated off the table before you can even start the game. People have a kneejerk reaction to slivers as a tribe.
August 9, 2013 11:02 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #5
Though I get a fair amount of hate with Omnath, Locus of Mana .
August 9, 2013 11:03 p.m.
my group has hate twords two people, me being one of them. Aurelia, the Warleader and Zur the Enchanter are the two they hate the most out of the four i have fully built. My friend runs Thraximundar and Sharuum the Hegemon
August 9, 2013 11:18 p.m.
hey now don't hate on Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind ! i personally like him nad his ability tap ability is once per turn unless u combo in untap tricks which i don't bc in any Niv-Mizzet EDH white is illegal, so old Azorius is outta the uestion....even then he's still not as evil as the ping ability of Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius ....
August 9, 2013 11:56 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #8
Kcin, Necro-Biologist Freed from the Real , Pemmin's Aura , etc. Also, Curiosity and Ophidian Eye .
U actually has a TON of "untap this thing" stuff.
August 10, 2013 midnight
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind + Curiosity or Ophidian Eye is a "draw all the cards in your deck and ping everyone for that much damage" combo. And if you have Elixir of Immortality , etc, you do it again. It basically turns Curiosity and Ophidian Eye into an "I win" card with Niv.
August 10, 2013 12:02 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #10
Interesting sidenote.
Can you spot the hidden message in this flavor text?
August 10, 2013 12:04 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #11
Haha! He's telling you to tap and untap him repeatedly!!! Lol
Zenith to the right 90 degrees. Then the others are directional, stating to tap and untap again... I think lol.
August 10, 2013 12:21 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #12
Sigh. Apply the directional degrees to the variables inside the parentheses. In this case 90 degrees to the right. Then look at the letters again.
Alternatively turn your monitor 90 degrees to the right and read downward. You'll see it.
August 10, 2013 12:23 a.m.
deciphering this reads Niv-Mizzet = 1
@Ohthenoises also i didnt really think about those cards or the potential of U for untap.. i normally think old azorius, which in my experience was more W based than U..
for that i stand corrected... but you got to agree the lesser of two evils is Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind over Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius ...
August 10, 2013 12:50 a.m.
What would be your first thought if you saw a Diaochan, Artful Beauty ?
August 10, 2013 12:52 a.m.
most likely use her ability against her in revenge for killing a creature of mine.....
August 10, 2013 12:54 a.m.
then you may run into the issue of someone giving her pro red.
August 10, 2013 12:55 a.m.
Thats how im going to get aorund that. I mean even then look at it with a chaotic friendly hug. You could make friends with that ability. And even if she blows up one of your not scary guys, you could take out a big scary guy on another persons board.
August 10, 2013 12:59 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #19
She's super political. You ask your group "who's willing to sac a dork to kill that Kozilek, Butcher of Truth ?". Someone is going to volunteer. Then you win twice by clearing two threats.
August 10, 2013 1:26 a.m.
To expand on Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind , Mind Over Matter makes a reusable infinite loop. Draw -> ping -> discard to untap -> repeat. After fishing through your deck, discard a legendary eldrazi and repeat if you didn't get enough damage.
Karador, Ghost Chieftain , Maelstrom Wanderer , Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon , Skullbriar, the Walking Grave , and Damia, Sage of Stone tend to see a lot of hate in my group as they tend to make the games lose their fun for everyone who isn't running them, or just can explode in one turn and kill at least one person out of nowhere. (infect + cards like Hatred and Shade's Breath are annoying)
August 10, 2013 3:09 a.m.
GureiSeion says... #21
Well. I can't say I lend hate to it, but I've felt plenty with both Captain Sisay and Maelstrom Wanderer (Maelstrom Roulette). Something about the threat of tool-boxing (and Kaldra pieces) or the sheer strength of a three-turn clock general, I'd imagine.
August 10, 2013 3:12 a.m.
I get ganged all the time when I play Rafiq...good thing he is a one shot wonder and attacks twice with Finest Hour . Also, Endric can get pretty out of hand with card advantage, so I tend to hate on him a bit.
August 10, 2013 9:08 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #23
One of the best parts of playing Maelstrom Wanderer is declaring yourself the archenemy as soon as he resolves. He doesn't end the game that turn, so you just turn to your enemies and give them the good 'ol "come at me bro" stare.
August 10, 2013 11:40 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #24
Unless you Brainstorm and set up Palinchron and Deadeye Navigator a your top decks.
August 10, 2013 11:53 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #25
Yeah, none of that. More like Urban Evolution , Hellkite Tyrant .
August 10, 2013 12:27 p.m.
Kcin, Necro-Biologist I'd rather face Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius over Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind any day. You have to pay for Draco's ability every time, so even with 10 mana, you're only getting 5 activations and cards. With Firemind, you don't even need to tap him to abuse his ability. Imagine having 10 mana and Consecrated Sphinx and Firemind on the field, then dropping Minds Aglow for 9. If you have one opponent, you draw 36 and have 36 damage to sling around however you please. 2 opponents makes it 54. And if Psychosis Crawler is on the field, you just won.
That's actually what my Riku EDH deck is based on.
August 10, 2013 1:22 p.m.
GureiSeion says... #27
@landgrafb - Or Cascade into Sun Quan, Lord of Wu and just about anything else, really (Honestly usually a ramp spell, which I don't complain about on account of recast setup).
@Ohthenoises - Absurd. In consideration of my local playgroup, I either do it the hard way with 4 Karoo -likes or go for a one shot Great Whale / Palinchron + kicked Rite of Replication .
August 10, 2013 2:22 p.m.
the3rdH0kage says... #28
Skullclamp wth a bunch of 1/1s and Niv-Mizzet Firemind.
August 10, 2013 3:11 p.m.
Wizard of the Damned says... #29
Olivia Voldaren can always shift the game as thine commander
August 10, 2013 6:22 p.m.
And as for commanders that paint a big target on your forehead, Nin, the Pain Artist is one I always hate to see. The insane early draw power and amazing synergy with creature stealing and things like Stuffy Doll is hard to contend with.
August 10, 2013 6:50 p.m.
lord_of_the_snakes says... #31
i haven't played edh before, but the group i have seen the Mayael the Anima decks are hated because they super ramp into all land casts for Autochthon Wurm its fun to watch
August 10, 2013 7:03 p.m.
BroadScholar says... #32
In my play group, the decks/commanders that are considered OP are Aurelia, the Warleader , Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur , Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger , Sun Quan, Lord of Wu , Olivia Voldaren , and Ezuri, Renegade Leader . My friend has a Sedris, the Traitor King deck that he's never lost a game with, but we don't really consider him an OP general, it's just a fantastic deck.
August 10, 2013 11:45 p.m.
BroadScholar says... #33
Actually I forgot we decided that Jin Gitaxias is reasonable because it costs 10 to cast. But for a while, it was a pain in the ass cause one of the guys had a deck where he could always play him by turn 10. He just kept drawing into lands and hit his drops every turn.
August 10, 2013 11:52 p.m.
But in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except Jin-Gitaxias.
August 11, 2013 12:58 a.m.
Im also assuming if you run any of the praetors, you might get killed first. Ontop of running Progenitus
August 11, 2013 5:55 p.m.
Not to dredge this back up, but after chatting with a friend of mine, He told me that Skullbriar, the Walking Grave actaully gets alot of hate.
August 16, 2013 3:49 p.m.
Bobgalarneau says... #38
@ zachi i pilot a Skullbriar, the Walking Grave deck, and it does not get that much hate. The thing is, left unchecked it can be a 20/20 commander with haste hidden in your command zone by turn 6-7... That's when you get the hate...
August 16, 2013 7:51 p.m.
@ bobgalarneau~ Well thats what my friend was tlaking about. People that know that will probably kill him off first.
August 17, 2013 12:34 a.m.
Bobgalarneau says... #40
Yeah, my playgroup kows that, yet it never happens...... The thing is, to be effective, the deck has to be built arpund the commander alot. Deal with the commander and there is no more deck. Plus, once the playgroup realise that he keeps ALL counters..... Someone side in a -1/-1 counter spell and it's done....
Even if they know the deck is brutal, i don't see any early presure.
August 17, 2013 8:16 a.m.
I am currently hating on Edric in a big way. I play Rafiq, so I have forests and all the elves walk right over drawing my opponent a brand new hand each turn
August 17, 2013 9:31 a.m.
That is true. But i only think one person in my meta know that. So i probably could get away with it. I kind of want to do a funky take o rafiq and make a defender deck. He still gets huge and i can block almost anything
August 17, 2013 9:33 a.m.
SharuumNyan says... #44
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir "How about all my creatures have flash, and you can't play anything on my turn?"
August 28, 2013 6:45 p.m.
Kaalia of the Vast
is up there on my list too, but so is Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
.
August 28, 2013 9:13 p.m.
personally the most commander hate I get is whenever I choose to use Riku of Two Reflections more than any other of my commander decks.
September 2, 2013 2:17 a.m.
I know next time I bust out Kresh the Bloodbraided I will be targeted with tricks like Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord , Havoc Festival , Primordial Hydra .... counters for days....
September 2, 2013 10:13 a.m.
gheridarigaaz says... #48
I think some people are mistaking hate for not letting a commander stay on the board...
My meta don't hate on a particular player at the table. We just never let the commander see the light of day...
My meta hasnt fully grasped how potent Damia the stone sage is for a start, but i know that she'll be joining the list due to the absurdity of her draw-power, even though we just kinda let a lot of the deck's shenanigans slip under the radar for some unknown reason...
The Kaalia of the Vast player isnt as widely hated on due to the the fact that most of the time we just ping her off the board, meanwhile Edric, Spymaster of Trest is just annoying to play against with all that draw and all those weenies and a plethora of ways to give them evasion of some sort... i just need to figure out a win-con for him that doesn't revolve around being an OP douchebag...
I also run a Vorosh, the Hunter commander deck. everyone panics when vorosh hits the table, eager to stop vorosh from growing in size, though i'd have to say it isn't half as vicious as kaalia can be once you've dropped a Sire Of Insanity on the table and everyone's helpless to react to kaalia's beatings.
The one i always have to look out for is Gisela, Blade of Goldnight . As much as she was meant to be a political commander, she's just too potent to let live long enough to do her thing, being about 2 swings away from commander damage. And she, i think, is the only one i can list that my playgroup has actually gone out of their way to see to it that she never gets cast again... probably would've been fairer on the player if she had 3 power instead
At first glance Sen Triplets looks like a nasty piece of work, however... the guys who run sen giblets don't tend to cast them asap... which leaves them as less of a target.
Its funny how Thraximundar hasnt been mentioned yet, or Azami, Lady of Scrolls .
September 2, 2013 11:19 a.m.
I run Vorosh, the Hunter but I run it in an infect deck so that I will already be the prime target (of whoever is still standing) and more than likely a great deal of artifact (and therefore sometimes also enchantment) removal and creature removal has already been used on the infect creatures - and board wipes may have been inspired well before the commander comes out. I think that my play group will go to great lengths to ensure that I never play that deck again .... ever. If I don't remove the deck from my playlist, if they ever see it again, I am pretty sure I will get driven out of my LGS.
I often find myself the prime target - getting hate from 2-3 other players simultaneously. I think it is partly the commanders I use, partly the fact that most of my decks don't just ramp for the first few turns so I often "start things", and partly because I am not a very politically savvy person in general (a thing I hope I could learn to get better at, actually, by playing EDH). I also am sort of new and don't have many friends in the game yet - and build decks that freely aggro those who are sort of important in the game or LGS even if they have good board position.
So - I might win a few 1v1 games - I might not always finish last if I manage to aggro someone else out first - on a lucky day I might win a multiplayer game. But I think my point is that it is more than the general alone that makes a person a prime target. It is also:
- your reputation (including whether or not you have ever run a taboo deck in the past)
- the existence of an even worse threat than you (or not)
- your friendships and how much loyalty they entail (or how much competition they inspire)
- whether you are the first to become a threat or have the discipline to wait until people are more or less distracted by others
- how you take group aggro - do you accept it and show deference and respect for the group politics - or do you "have attitude", retaliate somehow, or otherwise do things to make a single strike on you or group action against something that you are running turn into a war
Because of a combination of the above factors, I have been the prime target with the likes of Mikaeus, the Lunarch ! Making those who run much more "target-worthy" generals get away with the game unchallenged (or nearly so).
September 2, 2013 12:10 p.m.
I have only been playing EDH for the past few weeks to be honest, and I started with Rafiq. He gets me ganged up on every time because the deck not only allows for him to be a one shot wonder, but any creature that hits the board has the ability to become a HUGE threat, not to mention I took the ramping approach so that sooooo many "when attacking" effects trigger so early in the game. That said, I recently made an Azami deck, not realizing how powerful she actually is (I just wanted to try a new approach), and the hate I receive as Rafiq doesn't compare to the hate that Azami received. Being a new player to EDH the first group let me go and have my fun with OP draw ability, not realizing my plan was to mill not go after the Laboratory Maniac win-con (which is also in there). Very earl in the game I dropped Grand Architect and Pili-Pala then mytical tutored for Prosperity . They all knew it was over since they knew I had counters in hand, Patron Wizard on the BF and Boseiju was ready for use. They all scooped, the next group I played with was less forgiving on Azami and got right to work locking me out of the game.
Krayhaft says... #2
Jhoira of the Ghitu and Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind for sure. My group is mostly casual, and the only decks we've seen of those were combo.
August 9, 2013 10:59 p.m.