Each player draws X cards.
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Latest Decks as Commander
5 days ago
Well the decks goal isn't to mill. It wins with the cards Viseling , Iron Maiden , Ebony Owl Netsuke , and Black Vise . I want my opponents to draw as much as possible so they have a lot of cards in there hand for the damage, so I don't run Narset, Parter of Veils .
3 months ago
Cephalid Illusionist + Nomads en-Kor is a neat combo but its not my favorite since they doesn't really do anything for you besides when you put the two together. I'm also not a huge fan of Laboratory Maniac because he doesn't do anything on his own and we have better versions of his effect. Jace, Wielder of Mysteries is definitely still playable but Thassa's Oracle 's ETB trigger is just so reliable that you don't really need the redundancy IMO.
If your plan is to deck yourself and win with Thassa's Oracle, I'd highly recommend picking up a Mind Over Matter to combo with Kwain, Itinerant Meddler or Temple Bell . Its a heckin' powerful card and on the Reserved List, so I'd pick one up now before it spikes like a lot of Reserved List cards have been doing lately.
I also see you're running Hullbreacher and Smothering Tithe which pair excellently with cards like Prosperity , Minds Aglow , Skyscribing , Fascination and even Folio of Fancies . This is the primary combo I use in my own Kwain deck! You dump a bunch of mana into drawing everyone X cards and get 3 times X Treasure back to dump into the NEXT Draw X Cards spell so you can chain them together bigger and bigger. Then you can win with Thassa's Oracle , mill everyone out with Fascination or Folio of Fancies , or my personal favorite, just force the game into a Draw by drawing out everyone's decks simultaneously with a big Draw X or a huge Windfall . But even without comboing off, all the Draw X spells are far more useful on their own than Cephalid Illusionist and Nomads en-Kor .
Tidal Barracuda is also a fun group huggy for your opponent's that works like a Leyline of Anticipation for you as well but also keeps your opponents from interfering when you try to combo off on your turn.
Hope this helps! Check out my own decklist if you like! I focus a LOT on playing a neutral political game. Wizzardrix (Kwain, Itinerant Meddler)
3 months ago
I feel like unless you are confident that you are going to maintain a hand of more than 7 then maybe consider swapping out Spellbook might be a good idea
Not sure how useful Patron of the Orochi will be especially being at such a high cmc
Reforge the Soul only triggers the miracle cost if it is the card you draw for turn so you would have to pay the full CMC if you drew into it from a wheel. Thus, could save a few bucks by swapping it out for a different wheel card.
Nadir Kraken might not pull that much weight since you're theoretically going to be creating a ton of snakes and drawing a bunch of cards. Plus I'm not sure if you'll end up wanting to spend the mana to add the +1 counter and make a tentacle
Bag of Holding $0.35 instead of losing all of your cards to wheels, you can actually get them back later lol
Second Harvest $1.29 2GG to double all your creature tokens... could be useful? could also just do with another wheel lol
Soul of New Phyrexia $4 Might be a lot of mana to run but if you have ashnod's alter out then you should have no issue sacking three tokens to give everything indestructible. Just one more board wipe protection
Rhythm of the Wild $3 can either give them haste or make them a lil bit bigger
Ogre Battledriver $0.6 buffs snakes upon ETB and gives them haste; if this is already out and you wheel...OOF
Horizon Chimera $0.25 padding your life total isn't a bad idea; granted you are likely going to be aggressive affff
Geier Reach Sanitarium $2.5 Might not be worth it but having a little something-something on a land is hard to deal with and could help in a pinch
Dragon Mage $0.25
Minds Aglow $2.5
Burning Inquiry $1 One red mana to get 9 snake bois and might get some good stuff out of someone else's hand
Game Plan $0.39 Heftier side of things at 6 CMC but everyone draws 7 instead of perhaps the same amount they discarded. Plus everyone refills their library so any graveyard shenanigans gets shut down and you don't risk milling yourself for a little bit longer
4 months ago
Cards to remove: Altered Ego, Horizon Chimera, Vastwood Hydra, Elixir of Immortality, Otherworld Atlas, Fog, Haze of Pollen, Respite, Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner, Prosperity, Wildest Dreams, Thryx, the Sudden Storm
Be carful with cards like Prosperity because you give your opponents a lot of cards. You pay a lot of mana for them to draw a lot of cards.
Your lands suck. I can help you find better lands to use if you would like. You will be fine if you don't change them, but better lands go a long way.
Thryx, the Sudden Storm is a decent card, but look at your mana curve. You don't have many cards over 5 cmc. In other words, he doesn't reduce the cost of many spells.
Cards like Fog don't work well in commander. When life totals are so high, you don't care about one individual combat, but gaining large long term value. This is a single use card. It will also likely sit in your hand as a dead card most of the game. Compare Fog to a card like Propaganda
4 months ago
There are multiple spells to mill/draw out your opponents once you have infinite mana.
Minds Aglow (which someone also mentioned above)
5 months ago
DocProfFoxBeard Thanks dude! I really enjoyed writing out my thought processes on all my card choices cuz I really did put a LOT of thought and personal experience into it. This is everything I love about EDH too! The most important thing that rarely gets considered when people are building decks is "Is it fun to play against?" Yknow? People groans about STAX and discard and land destruction or combos that go off too fast for anyone to stop before they've even really gotten a chance to play the game, so I love being able to enable everyone at the table to get to play the game. It sucks when one person keeps that risky hand and gets screwed for it or just can't find the right cards, but when you're helping everyone you can kinda equal it out and make it interesting. And that's very true about Drawing the game! You could just simultaneously make everyone draw out their decks and force a draw with a big enough Prosperity, which is a win in my book!
5 months ago
Hey no worries OatmealBear, happy to help!
You nailed it on the first question. Originally I was making a mill deck with Kami of the Crescent Moon and all of those kinds of cards, but I think thats its own dedicated strategy, not really a group hug thing. You can certainly include group draw cards in that style of deck to get extra triggers and draw your opponents through their decks even faster too, but I don't think they go in the friendlier soft-control style we're going for here. People see Kwain and their first thought is, "That seems kinda underpowered and totally innocent...how are they trying to break it?" And the point of this deck is, for us at least, we're not trying to break him, we're just playing him as nothing but a straight up helpful good boy. But as soon as you play something like Psychic Corrosion, they think exactly: "Ah, that's what their gameplan is. Its a mill deck," and the jig is up. Kinda hard to play innocent after that. Otherwise with our deck, if you don't specifically know about the Smothering Tithe+Prosperity combo, you could search our whole deck and have no idea what our win condition is, it just looks like a pile of friendly group hug cards and some removal and counterspells. I think a card draw/mill deck is definitely doable, but you're probably better off going with Bruvac the Grandiloquent or Kami of the Crescent Moon and hard committing to the strategy. You can even still run the combo in mono-blue now thanks to Hullbreacher, which was originally going to be my plan until they spoiled Kwain and I got hella excited, lol.
As for Mirrodin Besieged, you'd have to play a lot more artifacts to make it work. If you're just using if for the card draw, we have enough strictly better options that don't make us discard so we don't really need it, and I don't think we have enough artifact spells to capitalize off of making Myr tokens or enough atifacts to be able to get enough artifacts into our grave for the alternate win condition. Just not sure what it really does for us. If you're just looking to make some tokens to chump block with, Nadir Kraken and Chasm Skulker are great at that, but I cut them because they can get awful huge and threatening and draw unnecessary aggro toward us. Oneirophage, Toothy, Imaginary Friend, and Psychosis Crawler are kinda the same, people see them and go "Aha, THAT'S your win condition!" and immediately want to blow it up so that you don't even become a problem. Hence, I cut them. No threats, no worries!
As for Windfall, I think its value is somewhat diminished for us in our deck. We tend to hold a full hand of cards most of the time with all our extra drawing, and Windfall gets the best value after you've played out your hand and can capitalize on discarding maybe 1 or 2 cards to draw 6 or 7 off an opponent. However, when everyone has full hands, its usually not card advantage anymore, its basically just a one-time Teferi's Puzzle Box except we have to discard everything in our hand, some things we might have prefered to keep, and instead draw a whole new hand blind. It can sort of be a win condition on its own in the late game if you've built up a sizeable enough hand that a Windfall might just mill everyone out, but for that, you'll need to have Jace, Wielder of Mysteries or Laboratory Maniac to win when you draw out. I found myself a lot of times with more cards in my hand than in my deck and less cards in my deck than in my opponents, and neither of the two alt win-cons, so Windfall didn't do me any good at all. They literally project "Hi, I'm a win condition", and they aren't any good on their own, so they tended to end up dead in my hand, so I just ended up cutting them and relying on the other win conditions instead.
Hope that helps! Lemme know if you have any other cards you're considering, I've probably thought about them to, and I'm happy to share my thoughts!
6 months ago
Thanks for the compliments!
One of Kwain's biggest strengths, I think, is how friendly and nonthreatening he is. There's no way to break or abuse him, even with infinite untapping with Isochron+Dramatic Reversal, your opponents get the option to just not draw if they don't want to.
If you're playing group-hug, I think its incredibly important to be as friendly and non-threatening as possible. I had cards like Consecrated Sphinx and Archmage Ascension in the deck originally too, because, like you said, it seemed just too good to pass up. But your opponents will see that too, and like it or not, its a threat. Its scary. Its why I've taken such care in picking the least threatening cards I can find. When people see an Isochron Scepter, they know you're up to something cuz its a pretty well-known combo.
IMO, trying to slow the game down is kind of the opposite of what a group hug deck does. By drawing everyone extra cards for free, we're naturally going to be speeding everything up. Cards that stop people from doing what they want to do like Drannith Magistrate only make people mad, and when they're drawing extra cards, they'll end up finding removal for it pretty quickly.
That's why instead, its important to lay low, and play the role of the arms dealer. By making sure we don't play anything threatening, our opponents will be too preoccupied dealing with each others' threats. In a multiplayer format, there's just no way that we'll be able to get a hard control over everyone and everything. You can't stop every threat, you're simply outnumbered. Instead, you want to make sure that your opponents are aimed at each other and friendly towards you.
Our control of the board has to be very subtle and purposeful. Board wipes are our biggest and best way to slow the game back down, and my favorite are actually mass bounce spells. Bouncing everything back to everyones' hands is much better for us than destroying everything. Destroying everything they've played makes them mad, but bouncing slows the game down and resets the board. The cards they want to play aren't gone, they're in their hand, and now they have to waste time playing them back down again. Their hands will already be pretty full of cards, so returning even more cards to their hands makes them have to make tough choices what to keep and what they have to discard. And anything we bounce that we don't want to come back down, we can save a counterspell of piece of removal for.
I think THAT is how you want to slow the game down, not with onboard threats and hatebears, but with instant speed responses to our opponents. Its the same philosophy you want to use with your single target removal and counterspells. You can't just stop anything that looks scary. Let your opponents be scared of it. Keep yourself safe. Keep your guard up and keep your answers ready. Don't react unless you absolutely have to. The only threat you want to be posing is an invisible one, that is, a board full of open mana and a hand full of 7, 10, 20 some cards. No one will dare to attack you when you can easily AEtherize their board away. As long as you stay on their good side, and they stay on yours, you're safe. Step number 1 to winning is not losing.
The reason I love the Prosperity combo is because those cards seem harmless enough on their own. They're just group hug cards, and everyone wants to draw a huge pile of cards. And when you're doing nothing but helping everyone, people are much friendlier about letting you have those Smothering Tithe and Rhystic Study triggers. Once you get that Smothering Tithe down and cast that Prosperity for X=10 or so, they don't know it, but you're about to win. You really want all 4 of Prosperity, Minds Aglow, Skyscribing, and Fascination, so that you have the highest chance of drawing into another one. Then, once it resolves and you draw those 10 cards and get those 30 Treasure Tokens, its already too late. Now you're loaded with cards and mana and counterspells. No one should be able to contest you. Then you cast the next X Draw spell for 30, get 30 more cards, 90 more treasure, and then you finish the game from there.
Its a really awesome, really unique combo that nobody sees coming. Even with your opponents drawing cards too, its very unlikely they'll have the ability to actually stop you, especially if you time it right and wait for everyone to be tapped out. Even if they do have an answer, you have counterspells, which is why I have so many cheap/free counterspells like Force of Will. They aren't necessary, but they help us defend ourselves even if we're tapped out and our guard is down.
Hullbreacher is the new addition to the deck as a backup Smothering Tithe. It does the same thing, but without your opponents actually drawing any cards, and it has Flash. Its important not to use this aggressively. Don't just play it for value, everyone will hate you for it. Save it for when you want to win, and you have the cards to protect it.