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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Helm of Obedience
(X), Tap: Target opponent puts cards from the top of his or her library into his or her graveyard until a creature card or X cards are put into that graveyard this way, whichever comes first. If a creature card is put into that graveyard this way, sacrifice Helm of Obedience and put that card into play under your control. X can't be 0.
1 month ago
Aah, of course! I had forgotten about the Leyline of the Void / Helm of Obedience combo. You'd actually need because the Helm can't be activated for , but it's still a possible turn 1 kill. It definitely fits with the "this combo will never actually work, but if it does that would be legend" theme of my deck :).
1 month ago
You need some source of fast-mana that can net you into , because having LoTV down turn 0 is key to winning on turn 1.
The next key piece is to have Helm of Obedience come down, resolve the ability with as the cost, and tap.
The fun part is that when Helm's ability goes to resolve, no cards will ever technically hit the graveyard.. so..
..you mill out your opponent and they go for OTD (on the draw) and lose to having no draw.
This works assuming you're not up against a free cast counterspell.
2 months ago
I don't think you can use Vanishing to be unblockable, but I think you could wait until someone decides to block him, and if Zur would die, you can Phase him out and he's removed from combat, you'll still have gotten his attack trigger though.
You've got quite a few solid stax creatures (people often call them Hatebears) in here already, but I run Opposition Agent, Dauthi Voidwalker, Drannith Magistrate, Malevolent Hermit Flip, and Archon of Emeria, as well as Wandering Archaic Flip, which is very effective piece if people run lots of non-creature counters, such as more competitive playgroups.
Well, there are various ways you can win via Zur's ability, in my Zur deck my plan is to lock up the board and then win from a fairly safe position. To go with Spirit of the Labyrinth you could run Teferi's Puzzle Box and Necropotence to lock people out of having cards except you, who can draw via Necropotence. I also use Walking Ballista and Heliod, Sun-Crowned as a half-fetched combo. Because it only needed 1 card, I use Second Chance + Hall of Heliod's Generosity + Necropotence to get infinite extra turns, but you might need a way to get rid of Necropotence to let you draw cards normally, a thing Zur can also help with. Another option that people use (but is pricey) is Rest in Peace (or Voidwalker) and Helm of Obedience, which can help remove players by milling them out, if this seems bad keep in mind that with Mirrormade you can duplicate the Helm on the 2nd turn and eliminate up to 2 players that turn, which should close out a game. While it won't quite win you the game on the spot, there is (back of Hermit) Benevolent Geist and Dovescape so that only you can cast non-creatures. If you're worried about birds you can just use Detention Sphere to clear them out each turn via Estrid's Invocation, but if you've got the most birds, you can keep them around. I like my Zur decks to have a janky feel, so I also don't run Thassa's Oracle.
One of my favourite ways to win is All That Glitters with stuff like Copy Enchantment, Estrid's Invocation and Mirrormade to generate a Voltron win off of Zur's ability. For protection I just run Greater Auramancy, which helps both my Voltron and my general supply of enchantments I don't want targeted. The already mentioned Luminarch Ascension can be a solid win con once it's set up, 1W for a 4/4 flyer is really, really good value, even in cEDH people play the card in control decks.
SniperFrog on Oona
4 months ago
Alright. So there's a couple things I would change, but I don't want you to think it's better or anything, just what I would do. I'll give budget suggestions and non budget suggestions so you have a variety of choices without hurting the wallet.
I think I would go for mono blue so I can get Bruvac the Grandiloquent's effect in my command zone. It seems actually nutty to just be able to get this guy going. That being said, I like a lot of the black spells you have here, namely Mind Grind and Nightscape Familiar, so I would consider something like Phenax, God of Deception or maybe Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker to stay in dimir. Not really sure the red is helping much at all, though. Only four red cards is a bit of a bad look, though they seem cool in theory. I've never played any of them, so I don't really know how good they actually are.
So there are a few optimizations I would consider as well. Three mana rocks are a bit slow for my tastes and there are a lot of decent options at two mana, I'd recommend Fellwar Stone, Mind Stone and Arcane Signet to name a few cheaper options. There's also Sapphire Medallion, Chrome Mox and Mana Vault, though those are strictly non budget.
More optimizations for interaction seems good here as well. Maybe drop some of your three mana counterspells for some one or two mana spells. Counterspell is a mainstay and at very good price as well. I like Swan Song, An Offer You Can't Refuse and Drown in the Loch in this slot. There are a plethora of non budget options as well, particularly free counters like Force of Will and Force of Negation or other heavy hitters like Mana Drain and Cryptic Command. Plenty of cool things to do with this, however, so you have options.
Your lands look rough. I personally will always go with untapped lands with so many options, but that can get really pricy, really fast. Of course, if you didn't have to worry about a red splash, your landbase gets A LOT better.
If you're having trouble with hitting enough lands, consider lowering the curve a bit or even adding a couple more to try to smooth things out. I generally try to have around forty-two to forty-five mana sources, though my curves are usually around 2-2.5, so you might want a little more than that, maybe. I don't know. That's something you can figure out with playtesting.
Now comes the fun part. As it stands, including the above mentioned cards, I would try to find room for these:
Into the Story for some card draw.
Rhystic Study and its baby brother Mystic Remora are both excellent card draw spells with humongous upside, though they are both getting a little on the expensive side now, with Rhystic pushing forty or fifty bucks.
I like Bitter Ordeal, but I think this is kind of a pet card that I want to make work, so I might be projecting here. lol
Reanimate effects seem VERY strong here. I like the ones that target opponent's graveyards the most, so I would stick with Animate Dead and Dance with the Dead along with the aforementioned reanimate. Didn't think about this at first. Could be really sweet.
Mesmeric Orb is money in these decks. Gives mad inevitability.
Folio of Fancies. I've never seen this card before, but I love it. Seems like it would fit nicely.
Sands of Delirium seems sweet.
Some cards I would just outright cut:
Gravepurge, not positive what this is doing for you, beside gumming up your draws. I guess it can get something back but not sure it's relevant. Hard to say without playing the deck.
All three mana rocks. Darksteel Ingot, Dimir Cluestone, Ur-Golem's Eye, Hedron Archive are a few. There are actually a few more than I thought, so maybe cutting all of them isn't the right thing to do unless you are cutting like for like for cheaper rocks.
Grisly Spectacle, I feel like you can get a better removal spell. I see the appeal, but I feel like it will get at most six cards milled maybe. Something like Feed the Swarm is probably just better or Drown in the Loch which hits two birds with one stone.
Countermand. Four mana counterspell seems like a really hard ask. I know it's on theme, but something cheaper is probably just better. See above for suggestions on cheap counters.
I would maybe cut some other, stuff, but I feel like I've already given you a lot to think about. Love the list. I'm excited to see it once you've had a chance to keep tuning it. Follow for sure. :)
6 months ago
How do you have Energy field but not Rest in Peace? RIP also combos with Helm of Obedience to kill a player. RIP in this combo can used with Leyline of the Void. Either card also hoses graveyard based decks.
7 months ago
8 months ago
I'd defend running Scour from Existence too. You're paying 2 extra for instant speed and giving nothing in return.
There is nothing else to defend. That's why i haven't defended anything else. So that has no bearing on its feasibility.
It also isn't "to board against one commander." They're cards you can use in literally every game because they can exile any target permanent. Run graveyard hate? why do that when i can run permanent hate that gets the job done and offers more versatility? What actually sounds like the more "unfeasible" strategy, there? Running graveyard hate that is kind of just a dead draw vs a non-graveyard deck, or running a spell that does what the yard hate would do which i can also use to answer any threat on the board? It could always be blue artifacts. They don't care so much about getting stuff out of the graveyard. This answers their Darksteel Forge. This answers an enemy Zurgo Helmsmasher on your turn. This could answer Iona. This could answer emrakul if they were legal in the format. It's even a way to deal with a Bound in Gold or Darksteel Mutation. It's good vs every indestructible commander and every protection from colored commander. It even deals with stax. What's important too is that it has a permanent effect and it is not a permanent. Grafdigger's Cage can be blown up or countered, just like Relic of Progenitus and Rest in Peace. However, the colorless spells can only be countered. There's nothing to blow up. Scour can even deal with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to stop a Sheoldred, the Whispering One, or a Rogue's Passage. Sure ghost quartering them would be much better, but if you drew one and not the other, and that's what's killing you...
You framing this as something people run just to deal with iona is wrong. That would be like saying people only run RIP for the Helm of Obedience combo. That's not true at all.
8 months ago
As the title suggests, I am trying to make the strongest Yawgmoth Undying combo deck that I can manage. However, after the release of the "Time Spiral Remastered" (TSR) set I decided to convert said deck into a "PreModern" one. Now one look at the combo itself would indicate that this goal would be technically impossible, as only one card was originally printed before Eighth Edition (Vengeful Dead), and at this point only two have been "Timeshifted" (Yawgmoth, Thran Physician & Zulaport Cutthroat). But with a few exceptions aside, anything that isn't a part of the main Undying-loop combo must be either PreModern/pre-(8ED) or "Timeshifted". This has obviously limited the resources available to me, but I've been off & on working on this by myself for some time now, and I think I have honed this to be as strong as possible given the aforementioned restrictions. I've even gone so far as buying my first & only copies of Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, and Yawgmoth's Will, as well as including all four of the original Mono-Black "Tutors" (Demonic, Vampiric, Grim, & Diabolic), and no, I am not about to drop four figures on a copy of Imperial Seal..
The only other viable option that I consciously haven't included, which someone suggested since I'm running Leyline of the Void (and now Dauthi Voidwalker) is Helm of Obedience. But I'm hesitant to include the Helm, as it would be worthless distraction without the Leyline or Voidwalker..
This is where you, the T/O community, comes into play.
A) Should I buy a copy of Helm of Obedience, and if so, what should it replace?
B) Are there any other PreModern/"Timeshifted" cards that you think would improve this deck's chances at a high-powered/competitive table, and if so, what should it replace?
C) This deck originally had Infect as a secondary WinCon, but what would you think about the original five PreModern proto-Infect cards available? (Swamp Mosquito, Pit Scorpion, Suq'Ata Assassin, Crypt Cobra, & Serpent Generator) Would you include any of them, and if so, what should it/they replace? (Personally I think it would be hilarious)
Obviously I would rather replace any "post-Modern"/post-(M15) cards before any Modern/post-(8ED) cards, and to maximize the number of PreModern cards as much as possible..
PreModern > Timeshifted > Modern/post-(8ED) > post-Modern/post-(M15)
Commander / EDH
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