Ravages of War
Destroy all lands.
Printings View all
|Masters Edition II (ME2)||Rare|
|Portal Three Kingdoms (PTK)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Ravages of War occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.0%
Ravages of War Discussion
1 week ago
Oh, also I forgot that Catastrophe is a card. It's basically just a cheaper replacement for Ravages of War, although if you're down to spend a whole ton of money, that would probably be a good addition too.
1 month ago
I mean, the easiest way to improve the deck as I see it is to improve the mana situation, both in the lands and in the rocks. For the lands, I suggest cutting one or two, since if you play more rocks (see below) you'll play faster and still have all the mana you need. Fetch lands (like Scalding Tarn or Windswept Heath ) are the easiest way to improve your mana consistency, but unfortunately they tend to be prohibitively expensive. I suggest running more duals like Shivan Reef , Battlefield Forge , Sea of Clouds , etc. instead of your ETB tapped lands like Mystic Monastery .
With regards to rocks, you're already running two of the best ones ( Sol Ring and Arcane Signet ). However, I've never liked 3-mana mana-rocks like Chromatic Lantern or Jeskai Banner , since in my experience things like Talisman of Progress , Talisman of Creativity , Fellwar Stone etc. are simply better. I'd advise increasing the number of cheap (CMC<=2) mana rocks in your deck, as well as cutting one or two basic lands for the same number of cheap rocks. This'll both speed up your deck in the first few turns AND increase the number of hits you get from your general's attack trigger.
Speaking of the attack trigger, consider Strionic Resonator . I play it in my Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger deck, and I've found it to be a pretty good way to press an advantage. Being able to see 8 cards rather than 4 with Narset, Enlightened Master 's trigger seems pretty good.
Depending on your personal theory of ethics, you may wish to consider mass land destruction (MLD) as another method of winning. I personally have no problem with it, but some people might not like it. Anyway, if you want to go that route you should run Armageddon , Cataclysm and (potentially since it's about $100) Ravages of War . Note that Jokulhaups doesn't really work, since it'll kill your general, too.
Wear / Tear is, I think, an auto-include in any deck including Boros colors. It's an extremely efficient method of spot removal.
I've always loved Dack Fayden in EDH. He steals rocks, loots you to where you need to be, and only costs three mana... If you have access to him, I highly advise including him.
Preordain is a good cantrip on par with your Brainstorm and Ponder . While it is admittedly less powerful when it comes to leaving a card you want to cast with Narset on top of your library (since you'd have to scry both to the top), it is a powerful enough turn 1 play that I think you should run it anyway. I have frequently found one-land hands keepable on account of cantrips, and running Preordain will make it that much more likely for you to hit a good opening 7.
The last card I want to mention is Proteus Staff . If you cut all the creatures in your deck except your general (which I honestly think you should strongly consider doing), you can use Proteus Staff to reorder your entire deck. The way it works is this: second main phase, after you've attacked with Narset, Enlightened Master and (hopefully) gotten an extra turn coming to you, you target Narset with the staff's ability. That tucks her to the bottom of your deck, but then immediately finds her again and puts her into play (since she's the only creature in your deck). Because Proteus Staff says to put the other revealed cards on the bottom of your library IN ANY ORDER, you can then put all the other cards in your deck in any order you wish (since your whole deck has been revealed). That means you can stick 4 extra turn spells on top, cast them during your extra turn, rinse and repeat.
Good luck! Hope this helps.
1 month ago
What have you been subbing for Ravages of War ? I sold the deck, but I have most of the non-foil versions still, so I'm probably just going to rebuild the cheap version of the deck. Ravages of War was something that simply has no cheap version of, so I've been wondering what to sub for it. I was thinking Cataclysm .
For me, playing all of these green based decks with low cmc 4 toughness creatures, Path to Exile allows me to deal with the creature turn 3 and still hold up counter magic to ensure the board stays clear until my next turn. I've found that to be well worth the ramp. Feels bad against RDW and similar builds though.
1 month ago
I totally agree. While it would certainly make mono white commanders far more viable, white already has enough going for it to make it a sought after color for wedges or dual colored commanders.
White sees lots of play in stax decks, as it packs the most hatebears of any color. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben Leonin Arbiter Aven Mindcensor Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite Grand Abolisher Hokori, Dust Drinker Ethersworn Canonist Kataki, War's Wage are all cards that see competitive play. You have far more fringe cases like Vryn Wingmare Alms Collector Thalia, Heretic Cathar Loxodon Gatekeeper and others which are seen on the fringe. The hatebears become a secondary wincon for competitive by pressuring life totals while also stopping the game.
White also gets a BUNCH of incredible supporting effects for stax builds. Armageddon and the expensive Ravages of War close games. Smothering Tithe plays great under stax. There are also numerous enchantments are shut off combos or lines of play, such as Rest in Peace Stony Silence Leyline of Sanctity Suppression Field and all kinds of less effective variants.
White also gives some of the most efficient 1-for-1 removal. While you will fall behind with 1-for-1's in a 4 player pod, its still important to pack StP and Path. White also gets sweepers for EVERY SINGLE PERMANENT TYPE. You read that correctly kids. You can do A-lot-for-1 trades with cards like Wrath of God Austere Command Cleanfall Paraselene and others.
White also gets one of the best pieces of combo protection available, Silence . White has a few tutors that are playable, Enlightened Tutor Steelshaper's Gift Open the Armory Academy Rector Stoneforge Mystic . You get card advantage via effects like Land Tax Tithe Weathered Wayfarer and more.
True, white doesn't have very many cards with the word "Draw" explicitly on it. You're able to accrue advantage, but its mostly incremental. What white lacks in raw draw you make up for with value. The sweepers are the best example of this imo. The opponent may have drawn more cards than you, but trading 1 card for 10 creatures on the board is effectively 9 card advantage.
I personally enjoy most duals or wedges that include White + Black or White + Blue. I find it to be similar to Green, in that I don't feel bad with having it as a secondary or tertiary color, and that it solves a lot of problems and gives me access to cards I want to run.
2 months ago
enpc Fair enough, I'll get to your response in bits too. Sorry it's been so long underway but I've had my response written down on a different PC that I couldn't get access to for a while. I'm just going to post this initial section and keep adding to it going forward.
- "But your argument here basically boils down to "artifacts are bad because they die to removal". I get that there are a bunch of good artifact removal cards, but that doesn't mean that we should stop leaning into artifacts because of it."
Not quite true. My argument is that relying too heavily on artifacts makes you very vulnerable to a removal type that is a lot more common than counter measures to alternative kinds of resource generation - like land ramp, blue's untaps and artifact manipulation, black's graveyard ress, alternative payments, and rituals, and red's artifact swap, rituals and other mana cheats . It's a lot easier to counter measure an artifact than many of the other types of mana accelerations in the game. And if your color can basically only achieve a very fundamental mechanic of the game like ramp and card draw through artifacts, it makes you more vulnerable than those that can achieve it in a different way.
I completely agree with you that removal is a fundamental part of an interactive game like MtG and is part of the fun and makes the game what it is. I don't advocate that removal/interaction should be worse or something like that. However I reckon when there's a disparity between how well removal interacts with artifacts versus other mana accelerators and that it hits certain colors more than others, then I see a possible issue that is worth looking into and possibly correct.
- "In addition to this, white has a lot of ways of protecting your stuff from being destroyed, whether it's indestructible, hexproof, just an outright Teferi's Protection (which yes you did mention), or more importantly shutting down an opponent's removal source using Torpor Orb effects, of which white has many."
I mean outside of Avacyn, Angel of Hope and emblem elspeth , and the aforementioned Teferi's Protection (which is a pretty ludicrous spell in of itself), white cannot actually protect their own non-creature stuff that well. And their hexproof is mainly to protect the player themselves and not their board (there's odric off-keyword giver - I mean deathtouch, skulk, menace?) - which is kinda weird in my eyes as white is the color of community and going wide more than tall and have indestructible as a primary evergreen keyword.
So white doesn't actually have that good, flexible or effective means to protect their own non-creature stuff. White is even the color of indestructible as one of their primary evergreen keywords... and it's actually worse off when protecting non-creature permanents than a color like green .
So in your proposed scenario where white counters green's land ramp with MLD, green actually has a very good, cheap and flexible counter, that leaves white at a huge disadvantage. Although it is only one card, but then again, there are 3 major land destruction spells in white (that is legal in Commander) being Armageddon , Ravages of War (check that price tag, hello Portal), and Catastrophe ... and to an extend Fall of the Thran .
Lands have always been the exemption to many destruction effects and there have not been printed much in terms of land destruction in recent times (outside 1-for-1s Tectonic Edge that is meant for removing utility lands/power lands). So I'd like to challenge your claim that land destruction is what WotC wants to show is part of what white does. I cannot deny that WotC have made more stax-like cards for white in recent times, but I reckon that's because taxing and hindering is something WotC can more easily print for white as a color identity mechanic than land destruction, again because lands have a special status and don't perish as most other permanents in the game.
In relation to the mentioned cards that can help white to land ramp; true these exists and many utilize them in their decks if they don't have better options. I did not actually know of the Kor Cartographer , paralleling Wood Elves in a worse state, fitting of a color imitating another color's strength. I would just like to see more of these type of cards, and if WotC finds a way to make them less mana intensive (like the 6 needed for Burnished Hart - it's still a good card because it's 2 on the field, but it's good more due to lack of better) but requiring something else that white is good at, I think that would be a good compromise between allowing that power but not make it as flexible and strong as green's ramp. Simply requiring more mana to mana ramp, seems kinda unproductive as those colors wanting that imitating mana ramp is already light on mana production. Kinda feels like "Don't be poor, just be rich. It's easy making money when you're rich!".
And I'm afraid I'm being a bit repetitive, but stax effects in general, are something that negatively influences white's political standing and threat/annoyance assessment in Commander - so if white is doomed to be the "I hold the rest of you back"-kind of guy, to be somewhat "on par" with the rest, then white is always going to be a bad color for casual multiplayer formats, like Commander.
- "So again I push the point that white is capable, however the issue here is that it's not the way you (or some other casule commander players) want it to be. But again, that's not white's shortfall."
The limited data we have and many players' personal experience says that white is less likely to succeed in Commander than any other singular color. Do you think this is just pure fiction spun up by white-loving players? Or do you think there's some truth to it? Why would white players be more prone to bad deck building than players of any other color?
Jumping at bit in your post:
- "Here's where we get to brass tacks (if we haven't already), I wouldn't agree with you on the comment that "a large portion of the commander community" thinks that mono-white needs fixing. Ther eare some poeple, sure. And those people might make a lot of noise about it, but that doesn't mean it's the majority of players. I know that most players who I interact with would agree wiht my viewpoint on it."
My anecdotal evidence is from 6 friends I play Commander with, where most agrees that white is the worst of the colors for Commander when considering mono-color (I'm uncertain of the opinion of 2 of them as they haven't said it outright). Other than that I know that the Youtube content creators "The Command Zone" has strong opinions on white lacking support in Commander, and as far as I've seen in the comment section of their video regarding color strength, within context of the Commander format, there's a lot of people who shares that viewpoint and a lot who don't. Of those that don't share the viewpoint, there's some who are very vocal and sadly also some who are frankly quite rude in their statements.
I'll end my post here and get back to you when I have more time.
2 months ago
enpc Your response makes me believe you didn't actually read the OP through. Further suggested by how you said earlier that I forgot to talk about White's ability to resource denial while I clearly had a shorter paragraph mentioning Armageddon , Ravages of War and Limited Resources and how I didn't believe that archetype was a very progressive way to forward white's multiplayer playability in Commander, even though it is one of white's more powerful archetypes but it has some nasty side effects on the political spectrum.
My main problem with white having to almost exclusively go to artifacts for fixing their problems on ramp and card draw is exactly because artifacts are plentiful in Commander and therefore many run artifact removal. It is quite tough as a white player that spent a lot of mana on dishing out mana ramp and/or card draw artifacts, just to have an opponent cast Bane of Progress or Vandalblast or be the target of an incidental Casualties of War or Aura Shards , and there's limited options for white to counter that, bar the expensive catch-all . Why green has better and more flexible counters that actually fits white more is a bit strange to me and I wish white had at least a comparable answer that didn't cost 40$.
In a way I wouldn't mind if white also got some artifact restoration as they did in the older days . Blue and red has some good artifact pulls but white did have that same affinity back in the day, so it is definitely part of their color pie . White just has a huge problem again with the symmetrical effects being a disadvantage in multiplayer unless they can fuel the graveyard - which they cannot by themselves.
One solution could be a Tempting Offer card that pulls back artifacts.
Tempting Offer Show
White's tempting artifact recovery
Tempting Offer - Return an artifact card from your graveyard to the battlefield. Each opponent may an artifact card from their graveyard to the battlefield. For each opponent who does, you may return an artifact card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Most opponents would likely take the offer to return their strongest artifact to their board, and in exchange white gets to mass-return their wrecked artifacts at a discount. Unlike say Tempt with Discovery which in general should never be accepted.
One of the mana ramp suggestions (in the OP) was indeed to return low CMC permanents, which could hit ramp artifacts as well - so pulling double duty and well within white's color pie. Getting extra lands this way is more resilient versus playing mana artifacts but requires extra steps compared to mana artifacts and will never be a true replacement but merely a supplement. And it's not the first time white restores lands .
I think it would be better if white players could included these types of permanent restoration cards into their decks and it was viable, rather than having to put Manalith into their deck.
Again these suggestions are unlikely to replace mana artifacts or become auto-includes, but they could provide good supplementary support. I advocate choice, but if improvements could be made to a color specific solution to a color that falls behind in the format, then I see no issue.
And none of the suggested cards are something I would imagine would swim rather than sink in eternal formats, but it's possible there's something I overlook.
It's also meant as a general take on a possible solution, and not necessarily the only thing needed to improve white's ability to compete in casual EDH. For instance if the land restoration cards I suggested was a way to go, then more cards that facilitate that line of play could be made. More functional reprints of Evolving Wilds , a variant on Flagstones of Trokair or basically anything that helps that line of play and doesn't need to be *the* fetchlands . Prismatic Vista was a very good alternative to the fetchlands, that sadly has taken a very similar price trend. Although I think that may have more to do with the price of the Modern Horizons set compared to what value was in there, than the actual card - a cash-back so to speak. Now I just hope for future functional reprints - even while owning 2 Prismatic Vista s.
White lands that end up in the graveyard Show
Variant on Flagstones of Trokair
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
, Sacrifice ~: Search your library for a basic Plains card and put it onto the battlefield, you gain 2 life.
Something with a line of play that lets you put lands into the graveyard but not fall behind on lands in play.
, : Look at the top 6 cards of your library, you may put any number of land cards from among them into your graveyard, then put the rest of the cards on the bottom of your library in a random order. You may shuffle your library.
Outside the colors of Jund's lands matters deck. Outside of most landfall decks. Will likely cause Crucible of Worlds to increase in price, but is an example of something white could do that isn't specifically self-mill, isn't draw discard and isn't land- Buried Alive .
White have previously had a somewhat similar effect in Endless Horizons , one that is somewhat similar to Land Tax . Where Endless Horizons essentially provides deck thinning and pseudo card-advantage, it also presents a rather significant risk if blown up, especially if you play greedy - don't do it. This suggested land or whatever it will end up being, it doesn't need to be a land... it can thin your deck and throw lands in the graveyard, and provide a library shuffle if needed.
What I mean to say with the above, is that the suggestions in the OP and here is more about a direction of solutions to this perceived issue with white in casual Commander, more than it is "this card will single-handedly turn white into just as great a color as green for Commander". Therefore reflecting on these cards' viability in context to only existing cards would be against the point I try to make.
Think of red for a moment. For almost two decades, red didn't have actual card advantage. They had Browbeat as a punisher mechanic, they had Wheel of Fortune in the very early days but those are more exceptions than the rule. Then red got their temporary draw or draws with downside with an underlying theme "it's here in the now, use it or waste it". Card draw is so basic and essential to the game, that each color has come up with ways to achieve it. I think white needs to find a similar solution for multiplayer formats.
And finally, to quote you; "But if your argument is that they're not as good (the manarocks) and so you don't want to play them, then tough, welcome to how balancing works. And if that's not fair in your mind then you have some really bad double standards."
Does balancing need to include price tags? Joke aside.
But how come a large portion of the Commander community has expressed that white and to a lesser extend red are the least powerful colors in Commander, especially white when considering mono color? Red is getting support lately and is improving, but white falls behind.
Do you claim you know balance better than all those people?
2 months ago
Sylvan Tutor 's price is based almost entirely off scarcity. P3K was a small starter set released in the Asia market and not released in the North America market. It's a small and rare set from 20 years ago, so any even halfway decent effects are going to be extremely price dollar wise. Great effects that are cEDH playable are extremely expensive, Imperial Seal Three Visits Ravages of War Burning of Xinye Warrior's Oath
I think the effect is great. Most green decks could benefit from including it. It does lose a lot of utility being a sorcery though. You must give your opponent a full turn, with your opponent knowing that you have a selected card coming to you. Compare to instant speed Worldly Tutor . You play at your opponent's end step, and you get to untap and play your creature before your opponent gets to untap + draw. Also consider that with an instant speed tutor, if you need to do something else instead, like Counterspell , you have that option. And last but not least, instant speed tutor gives you potential for blowouts. If you Worldly Tutor to grab Alms Collector then crack Chromatic Star (or any other effect to draw 1 at instant speed) to get it into your hand, you can get huge plays against Wheel of Fortune type effects. The same is true for Aven Mindcensor against Protean Hulk , and so forth.
3 months ago
Relatively powered version of Brago Stax.