What r the 6 most broken cards in magic
General forum
Posted on June 16, 2015, 2:39 a.m. by IndepenentMeta
Idk it interest me in what people are telling me. They re saying stuff like ugin n the den protector death mist loop is not broken. So by all mean can some one list a few cards that are broken in magic... I know magic has to have a few of these. Seeing that every tcg has had broken cards
IndepenentMeta says... #3
What were they using skullclamp with that made it broken?
June 16, 2015 2:50 a.m.
Storm Crow /thread
Oh ok fine. I'll give some real examples: Time Walk, Ancestral Recall, Tolarian Academy.
Skullclamp is just good because it turns your opponent's Lightning Bolt into "Draw 2 cards" for just 1 mana after the initial investment. To put it another way it's "Pay 2, Draw 2 because your opponent has to kill your creature or they lose" for many decks. It's really a case of the card by itself. Of course using it with Bitterblossom is quite degenerate.
I honestly believe that Path to Exile, Lightning Bolt and Tarmogoyf are all stupidly over powered for modern, especially path and Goyf. Do I need Path to win in my modern control decks? Heck no. But does it keep me from wanting to play big beefy creatures? of course. I'm not going to drop a bomb in the modern format, ever, because of such cheap removal as path.
June 16, 2015 3:01 a.m.
The three best decks in Standard pre-banning of skullclamp were Ravager Affinity, Goblins, and Elf and Nail whichcan all do ridiculous things early in the game without Skullclamp. Affinity can play Disciple of the Vault, sacrifice everything to Arcbound Ravager, and Shrapnel Blast you to death by turn 4. Goblins can also kill on turn 4 easily with Goblin Piledriver, Goblin Warchief, and Siege-Gang Commander. Elf and Nail can play Tooth and Nail entwined on turn 4 with the help of Vine Trellis and Vernal Bloom. All three decks, should they survive into the newer metagame, will still be capable of such antics. Decks that can sometimes make plays like that are fun and excitingthe problem was that Skullclamp gave them all a resilience and a robustness that they had no right to have. Removal and board-sweepers should be able to dent their strategies, not just let them draw more cards! Note that the ideal Tooth and Nail plan makes no use of one-toughness creatures, yet the way to make the deck a winner was to add sixteen one-toughness creatures and four Skullclamps.
June 16, 2015 3:01 a.m.
Equipping it to creatures. It turns removal into self -1 for 1s, turning boardwipes into refill your hands. It made elves, affinity, goblins etc broken as hell because of theiir synergy and draw power.
June 16, 2015 3:02 a.m.
I would argue Necropotence Is one of the most broken cards ever printed
June 16, 2015 3:06 a.m.
Necropotence is a very very strong card. Agreed. Totally forgot about it
Basically look at the vintage restricted list and cross refrence with the modern one
June 16, 2015 3:10 a.m.
If you include ante cards then Contract from Below can be quite useful as well.
June 16, 2015 3:16 a.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #12
Some real basic cards break the game of magic....
June 16, 2015 3:20 a.m.
If you wanna see some busted cards, just look at the restricted list for Vintage.
June 16, 2015 3:26 a.m.
Mishra's Workshop, Mox Sapphire and friends, Ancestral Recall, Timetwister, Black Lotus, Yawgmoth's Will, Oath of Druids...
Need I go on?
June 16, 2015 3:30 a.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #17
Notice the simplistic style behind magics broken cards
June 16, 2015 3:33 a.m.
Any card that goes +1 is generally broken, the cheaper the better. I mean, look at Pot of Greed from yugioh or Inzektor Hornet.
June 16, 2015 4:45 a.m.
I moved this to blind eternities. Not sure entirely where to put it. The social forum is for meetups and other things.
Yeah so for a good understanding of just how degenerate the game can be look at the restricted list.
You're right - most of these cards are basic. But basic effects are too powerful if they're very cheap. Black Lotus isn't mind blowingly complicated or anything, but it allows you to have access to 4 mana on turn 1 if played with a land. Ancestral Recall just draws cards, but it allows you to sample 5% of your deck for 1 mana at instant speed. These kinds of cards just break the basic game-economy. They do too much for too little.
Then you have more complicated examples like Necropotence or Skullclamp where people say 'why is that broken?' and you have to explain concepts like life being a resource that you use to win or that drawing cards in response to killspells is super powerful. That kind of more subtle advantage.
June 16, 2015 5:02 a.m.
kengiczar - You must have missed Abzan and Jund dropping bomb creatures in the face of Path to Exile for the last like 4-6 months?
PtE does not overly warp the format. You can't say it does when midrange is literally the biggest deck right now and has been for a while.
Goyf was kind of degenerate but I'm not so sure now. 2 mana removal is in fashion at the moment, and two mana removal does a good job of dealing with 2 mana creatures. A simple 1-for-1 with no tempo loss makes a $200 creature seem significantly weaker. We went through a period where it was very powerful because it can be dropped before most counterspells are able to be cast, except Spell Snare. At the moment, though with Terminate, Path to Exile, Abrupt Decay and all manner of other things running around - goyf is fine.
All it takes is two mana removal to devalue 2 mana creatures.
June 16, 2015 5:10 a.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #21
LeaPlath ha that's actually pretty Kool u knew that
June 16, 2015 5:16 a.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #22
Skullclamp was a good example I personally went on my trip hearing bout the decks that can abuse that. And what a weird bunch artifacts, goblins, and elves. Like the standard modern creature designs. As for Necropotence I think it's legal right now if I'm not mistaken. Cause the past event they had they mentioned it but unfortunely I wasn't paying attention. Would u care to enlighten me on the combo?
June 16, 2015 5:20 a.m.
Necropotence is not legal in modern. It is on the restricted list in vintage.
It doesn't particularly combo in itself as far as I am away - it just lets you draw through all the cards in your deck so you have the cards you need to win in hand - then you can go off. It costs no mana to draw cards, only life. This is powerful because it means that with a Black Lotus or something you can drop this T1 and draw 15 cards.
June 16, 2015 5:24 a.m.
I do play YuGiOh occasionally. And I study card design.
Basically any card that lets you trade life for cards is very very powerful. The only reason griselbrand is not banned but still super powerful is that, assuming you start with 20 life and cheat him into play somehow, you can only draw 14 cards off him without need more ways to restock your life. Where as Will and Necropotence are banned.
Will gives storm a turn 3 past in flames that also lets them replay lands, Lions eye diamonds, and lotus petals.
June 16, 2015 5:31 a.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #25
Oh yeah and then there's that angelic grace card that doesn't let you loose the turn u play it...
June 16, 2015 5:32 a.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #26
That's actually the place to do it at... That's where I began
Yeah at first wen I played griselbrand I was like dude tis thing is gonna get banned soo fast.. Then I releazed that the life link alone wouldn't give you enough life to make his effect spamable
They keep telling me to learn storm but idk it doesn't catch my interest. To me it looks like some guy just throwing cards on the board. The real gem to that deck is lions eye thou. I forget what it does but I know wen I read it I understood the combo a little better
June 16, 2015 5:37 a.m.
Storm in modern doesn't play Lion's Eye Diamond because it's banned. Banned is the wrong word actually - never printed in a modern legal set. Though the card is common in legacy/vintage. I can never tell which one is which off by heart. I have little interest in those two, to be honest. I have no idea if there is a storm deck in legacy/vintage. The power level is there but so is Force of Will and I suppose Mental Misstep. Though I wouldn't be surprised if that was banned. Im being too lazy to google right now.
You CAN spam Grisels ability by the way. You draw 7 cards - cast something that gives you an extra combat phase. Swing with him to gain 7 life. Draw 7 cards. Cast something that gives you an extra combat phase. Swing with him to gain 7 life. Draw 7 cards.........
June 16, 2015 5:41 a.m. Edited.
ChiefBell but not as easily as you can with Yawgmoth's Will.
Anyway, Storm is one of those decks that requires a lot of skill to play, especially sequencing. You have to know how to order things for best effect/playing around hate.
For example, you cast Infernal Tutor, then activate Lion's Eye Diamond to make yourself hellbent. So you tutor up an Ad Nasueum, cast it, go off.
And vintage does has storm, it just is generally a combination of another deck such as Dooms Day or tinker or time vault combo.
June 16, 2015 5:49 a.m.
Define broken or you can't have a real answer.
Define the format or you can't have a real answer.
Define the meta or you can't have a real answer.
Also define combo. I think you are using the word wrong. You mean heavy synergy. Combo is something like Viscera Seer+Melira, Sylvok Outcast+Murderous Redcap.
Deathmist Raptor and Den Protector are for sure best buddies, but not a combo.
June 16, 2015 7:45 a.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #32
If you're talking about individual cards, it's the Power Nine plus a few other dumb prints over the years (mentioned above).
If you're talking about combos and synergy, I would say that Time Vault + Voltaic Key is pretty damn broken. There are others though.
June 16, 2015 8:01 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #33
Anything used in Vintage that's fast mana (Black Lotus, the moxen, Mana Crypt), Necropotence (and WotC's attempt at making it fair Yawgmoth's Bargain), Memory Jar (it was banned before it was even playable), Mind's Desire, Time Walk, Ancestral Recall.
Take a look at some Vintage lists.
Edit: Fastbond too!
June 16, 2015 8:01 a.m. Edited.
What about Channel much love that card in my casual deck :)
June 16, 2015 8:33 a.m.
Black Lotus is not itself broken because you need something to do with that mana. You will almost always will, but it's pretty useless as a top deck.
I agree that Yawgmoth's Bargain, Time Walk, and Ancestral Recall could be considered broken because their effects are insane for their cost.
Honestly, I think Counterspell is broken. If a wizard is channeling all their power into a spell to annihilate a foe, that foe should have to expel an equal amount of power to render it inert. However, Magic says all you need is an amount of energy equal to that needed to pick your nose. That is a pretty extreme imbalance.
June 16, 2015 8:43 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #36
The balance for counterspells is in being forced to leave your mana open and unspent for a chance to counter something. If counterspells cost any more than they do on average, they'd be unplayable. Many already are.
June 16, 2015 8:52 a.m.
biggestmtgnerd says... #37
Black Lotus moxen Mana Crypt Sol Ring Ancestral Recall Jace, the Mind Sculptor Time Walk Fastbond Necropotence Yawgmoth's Bargain Tolarian Academy artifact lands Memory Jar Time Vault Mana Vault Timetwister Bazaar of Baghdad Library of Alexandria Mishra's Workshop Skullclamp Sensei's Divining Top Recurring Nightmare unBalanceed Channel Strip Mine Wheel of Fortune Vampiric Tutor Demonic Tutor Imperial Seal Tinker Oath of Druids Survival of the Fittest to name a few. Some cards are semi-broken, like Treasure Cruise Ponder Seething Song, and Birthing Pod, which are not on the same level as the ones mentioned earlier, but were still banned. Some overpowered combo's/synergy include Counterbalance + Sensei's Divining Top (top is banned), Time Vault + Voltaic Key (time vault is banned), Sword of the Meek + Thopter Foundry (sword is banned), Blazing Shoal + Glistener Elf (shoal is banned), Dark Depths + Vampire Hexmage (dark depths is banned), Mishra's Workshop + Trinisphere (workshop is banned), Channel + Fireball (channel is banned), and Dark Ritual + Necropotence (necropotence is banned. It's not exactly a combo in the traditional sense becuase it doesn't technically win the game, but it's so good that it counts).
June 16, 2015 8:54 a.m.
RussischerZar says... #38
6 most broken cards:
Notice how all but one of these cards either are blue or produce blue.
June 16, 2015 9:34 a.m.
RussischerZar says... #39
Also interesting how no one mentioned Mana Drain yet, the strictly superiour Counterspell.
June 16, 2015 9:37 a.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #40
RussischerZar Mana Drain wasn't strictly better than Counterspell when it was printed. Back during Legends (and up through 10th edition, i think) there was something called 'mana burn', where any unused mana that emptied from your pool dealt 1 damage to you per mana. So while Mana Drain was usually quite powerful, if you didn't have anything to do with the mana you got from it, it was extremely painful. That's why cards like Braids of Fire were extremely flavorful (it provided fire but eventually burned out of control) when printed.
June 16, 2015 10:13 a.m.
The most broken cards in mtg are probably Broken Fall, Broken Visage, Broken Ambitions and Broken Dam
June 16, 2015 12:40 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #43
Damn guys that a lot of cards... Did any of these cards ever see play time or did the get instant banned? if I told u guys I might be responsible for some of those cards would you believe me?I found it kinda funny because I remember wen I was real young magic had about 6 years in the curcuit I helped make Yawgmoth's Will. Then later on I made Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth n it's funny because I know everyone skeptical about me helping out WoTc.. But one of my friends said "on the off chance that it was you who made those cards, I thought it was pretty Kool u kept the name yawgmoth"
June 16, 2015 1:03 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #44
(This is exactly why people don't take you seriously.)
June 16, 2015 1:14 p.m.
Yawgmoth's Will
Mark Rosewater"The above card was created by Michael Elliott during the design of Urza's Saga. Interestingly, I submitted a very similar card in green (as green was the color of Regrowth) but Mike, the lead designer of the set, preferred the effect in black."
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/299
June 16, 2015 1:18 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #47
That's like the fan boy lore I made for it as well.
June 16, 2015 1:24 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #48
No Epochalyptik I think it's time these people knew the truth...
June 16, 2015 1:25 p.m.
Also Yawgmoth's Will came out in 1998. Magic came out in 1993. So You created Yawgmoth's Will 1 year before Alpha was realeased and you were playing on "the circuit. I am sorry epoch. Flame on. IndepenentMeta - for all that is holy, shut the F%$ up, you idiot (that is and is intended to be an insult). You are a straight up troll and a fool. Additionally you need to learn to read, write, and likely speak a language in which you plan to argue. Go away. Go away, you moron.
MollyMab says... #2
Black Lotus, Ancestral Recall, Memory Jar Skullclamp and Tolarian Academy
June 16, 2015 2:45 a.m.