Dominaria United Spoilers
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Aug. 20, 2022, 1:29 p.m. by Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor
I didn't see any threads on this topic yet so I figured I'd start one. How are folks feeling about the spoilers for the main set and commander decks so far?
TheOfficialCreator says... #3
Yeah, the more I look at the lands the less I really want them. They'd be neat in a stained glass Vorthos deck but not much else for me.
August 20, 2022 2:06 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #4
So many awesome cards have been revealed, that I cannot possibly comment on all of them, but that new Sheoldred will be perfect for my Nekusar, the Mindrazer EDH deck!
August 20, 2022 3:52 p.m.
Soooo many legends. I appreciate that Wizards wants to echo Dominaria, which was a phenomenal set, but we've gotten 165 possible commanders (not counting backgrounds or current spoilers) already this year with a whole other set to go. I hope after this set Wizards dials it back somewhat.
I am enjoying the flavor a lot though. And the power level seems alright as well.
August 20, 2022 4:03 p.m. Edited.
DemonDragonJ says... #6
Mark Rosewater clearly said that WotC has realized that cards such as Pongify, Rapid Hybridization, Ravenform, and Oversimplify are breaks, since they are blue spells that outright destroy or exile creatures, and, yet, WotC has printed another blue card that can destroy creatures; how can they do that?
Also, the new Braids allows a player to sacrifice an enchantment, but I thought that WotC decided that black should not be allowed to sacrifice its own enchantments, so what are they doing?
August 20, 2022 4:23 p.m.
DemonDragonJ MaRo has come out and said that The Phasing of Zhalfir was created before they made the change to blue. I'm gonna guess that the new Braids is a similar situation. Wizards is always lagging a couple years behind their criticism. That's why its only in the past year or so that you've seen white get real card draw despite Wizards getting hammered by the community.
August 20, 2022 6:12 p.m.
wallisface says... #8
DemonDragonJ With regards to "Blues-breaks", it's because Wotc makes sets many years in advance, and their change of opinion to this new stance for Blue hasn't yet been reflected in the cards - we can assume at sometime in the near future that they'll stop doing these effects, but when this set was made, they hadn't yet taken this stance.
You'll also note that Mark Rosewater replied to comments specifically about the new Braids, saying this is something they're allowing Black to do going forwards.
August 20, 2022 6:15 p.m.
Well, I think they just printed a staple for commander with Plaza of Heroes.
This is just good in an awful lot of decks. Even decks that don't focus on legendaries tend to have a good number of legendary cards. The last ability is just gravy.
August 20, 2022 6:22 p.m.
discard's feeling pretty good, with Liliana reprint, new Sheoldred, The Raven Man. I doubt it's going to bring Modern 8-Rack all the way back, but Pioneer discard is starting to shape up into something. That's the direction I'm going to start in.
Domain + off-color abilities = rainbow soup?
August 20, 2022 7:21 p.m.
TheOfficialCreator says... #11
Karn feels incredibly meh, which sucks because all of his cards in the past have at least had some use. I just don't feel like he brings enough to the table in this form. Maybe I'm wrong.
I'm going to agree on Plaza of Heroes. Definitely going to pick up one for my Slogurk once I build it irl, and it's gonna go in a lot of my online decks too.
Monstrous Warleech might have a place in my Scarab God deck. I don't know how well it scales in normal play, though. Seems a bit flimsy in anything competitive, but a good casual creature for sure.
Dragon Whelp taking up an uncommon slot again kinda miffs me, because I thought we were past that. It would be a flex on Wizard's part to print it at common, to show how the game has progressed and power-crept. But it's a thematic reprint, and I enjoy that it's in the set.
Enlist creatures, especially Keldon Flamesage, seem pretty good with cards like Slumbering Dragon. You kinda get to cheat some extra power in without putting in actual effort, which I'm a big fan of :)
Jaya seems pretty strong, as does Ajani. I'm really liking the Compleated mechanic that these planeswalkers have.
Shanna is just Well of Lost Dreams on a creature card. I don't know that it's going to take off, but it doesn't necessarily need to. Then again, Yarok, the Desecrated is a very popular commander despite just being Panharmonicon, and Shanna comes with an upside on cost and self-sufficency.
Sheoldred gets better every time I look at it. I love that she's now the cheapest Praetor they've printed, and yet it stands up strong to the rest. This one also doesn't seem to have the color pie breaking quality of the other Praetors, which I enjoy.
I don't see the draw of Shivan Devastator as compared to something like Voracious Hydra or Mistcutter Hydra, but then again it's red and I can't be unbiased about it because of that.
Sol-kanar's design is neat. Not mythic neat in my opinion, but neat.
I NEED SOUL OF WINDGRACE FOR MY SLOGURK DECK OR SO HELP ME- unfortunately it's Jund :(
Is it just me or is Sphinx of Clear Skies just... not good?
I really like the creativity of the World Spell and the whole idea of the Read Ahead mechanic. It's about time Sagas got another level of flavor after Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty's flip-Sagas and this is it.
Reprinting the pain lands, eh?
Zur could actually be a Shrines commander now. Just saying. I know it's not five colors, but you'd still have access to nine Shrines-
Archangel of Wrath makes me smile. It's just so creative.
Astor, Bearer of Blades is another pretty good Equipment commander. Nothing exceptional, but a warm, friendly commander, and maybe something in Standard? Who knows?
The new Braids is World Queller on a stick with advantage. I really like it. I really could not care less about the fact that it "breaks the color pie". Black should have access to difficult enchantment removal. drops mic
I love the blue and green Defilers (the green one is a definite spot for my Vorinclex deck), and cannot wait to see the rest of the cycle.
I'm honestly just tired of seeing Phyrexian Sleeper. I see it every time I look through the spoilers lol
Guardian of New Benalia gives me Adanto Vanguard flashbacks. I'm afraid.
Squee, Dubious Monarch has escape, but because of rules it doesn't officially has escape. :(
I know I said I didn't care about color pie breaks earlier, but the Phasing of Zhalfir is an ungodly, terrible atrocity and it should immediately be banned in every format
Cut Down is very, very interesting. I forsee it being a Commander staple. I mean, it can take out most creatures in competitive formats.
Sengir Connosieur has the clause "This ability triggers only once per turn", therefore, I do not like it.
"Making the frost ability into 'stun counters' is very fun and balanced. This message brought to you by the Atraxa gang."
I don't know why, but the cycle of common off-color kicker cards make me feel... queasy. I guess I'm just not a big fan of color identities being largely determined by other pips in the text of the card.
Take up the Shield has Ajani being a bro on it, which makes me feel sad, ergo, I do not like it.
This set has a bunch of really cool and interesting designs! I'm excited for the rest of the spoilers to come ^^
August 20, 2022 10:15 p.m.
To me, Karn is a great card for the colorless deck I've been working on in Explorer/Pioneer. Drop him turn 3, +1 ramps. Next turn cast Hedron Archive, -1 dig for Ugin. Turn 4 cast Ugin. If all else fails his emblem lets me turn random artifacts into damage sources, which is something the deck really needs.
I'm personally excited for Threats Undetected. There are definitely piles for it, I probably just have to dig deeper. Best I've currently found for modern is Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Felidar Guardian, Wispweaver Angel and Spark Double, with an etb payoff
August 21, 2022 12:10 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #13
TheOfficialCreator - The fact that the new Karn doesn't protect itself is definitely an issue, but I do think if it survives a turn then the -1 is very strong.
As far as what's the allure of Shivan Devastator? Well, I've already mentioned my own interest in pairing it with Lozhan, Dragons' Legacy in EDH eliminate two opponents at once, but cards like Devastator have always found a roll in their respective standard sets. This is because they scale with the game. They can be an early drop, or be cast a massive finisher. Devastator has the added benefit of haste as well.
Some additional thoughts now that I have looked at some more of the spoilers:
Fallaji Wayfarer seems like it could be a new green staple. Any G/X deck that has a reasonable amount of multi-color creatures could benefit from it.
Thank goodness Tiller Engine isn't modern legal, or Amulet-Titan might have gotten a new toy. It's definitely a cool addition for Omnath, Locus of Rage decks running the Perilous Forays combo
Verrak, Warped Sengir has my vote for coolest new legend so far. Their interaction with fetchlands is very interesting.
Both the defilers seem cool, and I like this "fixed" take on phyrexian mana. I suspect we will be seeing that mechanic return again soon though.
The new Sol'Kanar makes me wonder if WotC might eventually produce a Paradox Haze variant for end-steps at some point. That could be kind of cool.
Gerrard's Hourglass Pendent is not only the last piece of The Legacy Weapon to be printed, but it's also a pretty solid gotcha card for commander.
I like seeing all of the new multi-colored kicker cards. Reminds me of some of the older Dominaria sets like Invasion. I wonder if that was something WotC was going for since the set symbol also closely resembles the Invasion symbol.
August 21, 2022 2:06 a.m.
wallisface says... #14
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor, TheOfficialCreator just weighing in on the Karn conundrum. Personally I think its the weakest Planeswalker we've seen in a LONG time... like, precon-deck weak. The +1 is really situational ramp, and while the -1 is technically card advantage, it's card advantage you have to pump a lot of mana into (prettymuch every other walker that offers you additional resources does it for free).
I feel like in every 1-v-1 format if an opponent cast this card, i'd just ignore it. They've basically wasted a turn to get it down, and might waste more jumbling through their deck... but in any case it's not really threatening at all. I can't see how it would be any better in Commander, other than that format generally having more mana to throw-around. If anyone actually went out of their way to kill or counter this Karn i'd be very surprised.
August 21, 2022 4:10 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #15
wallisface, that makes sense, but WotC previously said that black could not destroy or sacrifice its own enchantments because it has many "deal with the devil"-type enchantments, and it needs to find another way to work around those cards, so how does black being able to sacrifice its own enchantments still fit within that philosophy?
August 21, 2022 8:04 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #16
Karn's +1 tokens can only not be used to cast nonartifact spells. They do help activating any and all abilities that require mana for activation costs. It's a lot less restrictive than it seems at first glance.
August 21, 2022 12:14 p.m.
Xira Arien is close to "won't do" design too. WoTC originally wanted to be very careful about stamping card draw & (+) board presence payoff upon destroying something, with selective destruction being its' own major advantage.
Jeepers, good thing the payoff is slow (probably wouldn't see this card if it wasn't). Think about Deathsprout with Xira: kill threat, draw/replace, ramp, & a 1/1 flyer for you.
August 21, 2022 12:23 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #18
wallisface - fair points on the 1v1 comments, but I would push back a little in commander. Karn strikes me as exactly the type of planeswalker that is good in the format as it isn't overtly scary so folks will leave him alone. His -1 is nearly a straight up tutor effect for most artifact or green decks. He honestly reminds me of a slightly less powerful Liliana Vess. Not too powerful, but has sneaky good utility and will be underrated (in casual settings).
August 21, 2022 2:23 p.m.
wallisface says... #19
DemonDragonJ it doesn’t. They changed that philosophy.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor yeah i don't play the commander format so not something i can really comment on too much. But if you’re saying it’s good because ”people will mostly ignore it”, then it really doesn’t sound that good.
August 21, 2022 3:30 p.m.
420MensRightsActivist says... #20
they're introducing Liliana of the Veil to pioneer, so that should be interesting.
August 21, 2022 4:19 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #21
wallisface, where did WotC state that they are changing black's philosophy?
August 21, 2022 6:53 p.m.
wallisface says... #22
DemonDragonJ Maro mentioned 3ish times in response to questions on the new Braids.
Scrolling down to try and find them, there’s this one: ”The reason we didn’t do it was to allow us to make “deal with the devil” enchantments. We finally realized, we don’t do that very often and there’s lots of flavorful/fun things to do if we let black sacrifice all permanents.”
August 21, 2022 8:20 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #23
wallisface, that is very good, but are you not worried that each color is becoming too powerful and losing the weaknesses that keep them distinct from each other?
August 21, 2022 9:55 p.m.
DemonDragonJ I think WoTC lost that ability with fetchlands and triomes. Modern has decks that are running Omnath, Locus of Creation and Magus of the Moon in the same deck and they don't even care. Fetchlands allow you to play the best of each color with minimal downsides.
I think slight breaks are great as they help encourage more monocolor decks as they can now deal with threats to that color easier.
August 21, 2022 10:30 p.m.
wallisface says... #25
DemonDragonJ from what i can tell the only reason black was unable to sacrifice enchantments was to stop them sacrificing various ones they can cast that start-out good and then become increasingly terrible. Those cards previously never got played - and maybe now they have an option to.
While i’m not keen on all colours doing all the things, and there definitely has to be differentiation between colours, this change feels healthy and more just a case of Wotc realising they were being stubborn to very old/outdated mechanics.
August 21, 2022 11:02 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #26
They did get played, but only in combinations with colors that could get rid of them, like a Disperse on your own Demonic Pact or more recently, sacrificing your Treacherous Blessing to your own Doom Foretold.
August 21, 2022 11:22 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #27
Anyone else enjoying the fact that they actually created a version of Banding that doesn't require a white board and flow chart to explain with the new Enlist mechanic?
August 22, 2022 10:30 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor I'm glad they tried to clean it up, but it is already having issues. Haste does some weird things with that mechanic
August 22, 2022 4:44 p.m.
BishopAtavist says... #29
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor how does casting Shivan Devastator with Lozhan, Dragons' Legacy take out two opponents at once? I haven't played with him before so there might be a mechanic I'm missing. BUT my understanding of how those cards would interact is, no matter how much you spend on X, the mana value of Shivan is 1, so Lozhan only deals 1 damage to an opponent. Am I wrong on this?
August 23, 2022 12:49 a.m.
wallisface says... #30
BishopAtavist While spells are being cast, any X's in their cost contribute to their mana value, so if you cast it for X=10, then it's an 11-mana spell. Once it resolves and has entered the battlefield, it's mana cost is then 1 (because X is thereafter always counted as zero).
August 23, 2022 1:53 a.m.
BishopAtavist says... #31
wallisface that makes sense. thanks for clearing that up! I'm still pretty fresh when it comes to Magic and I appreciate people being willing to explain the particulars.
August 23, 2022 1:56 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #32
BishopAtavist: yup! wallisface hit the nail on the head. You get the X+1 damage while the spell is on the stack and then the hasty beater afterwords. I probably wouldn't actually be able to take two folks out, but it sure is a lot of damage late game.
August 24, 2022 12:26 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #33
Some more thoughts on cards spoiled:
Jodah is really cool. Simply designed, yet enough randomness + power to make it look like a blast to play. He might be the first 5-color commander I actually have the motivation to build.
My Gale, Waterdeep Prodigy + Scion of Halaster deck got a lot of unexpected goodies from this set. Vohar is probably the most interesting
This lord cycle is straight fire. They all seem pretty strong.
Relic of Legends is strong in both nostalgia and power.
I think the return of Rith is lowkey a bigger deal than the return of Sheoldred. She is the big baddie of all the Primeval Dragons. Now that she is back, I would love to see another Primeval Dragon war. Interestingly, the last time in the lore that the Primeval's were causing havoc was during the last Phyrexian invasion. The card is pretty awesome to boot.
Weatherlight Compleated is awesome
Rivaz is realllllllly cool and he/she is making it hard to stay loyal to Lozhan for dragon tribal. I like the subtle nod to Zirilan of the Claw.
Uurg seems great for Gitrog decks.
I haven't been up on the lore since Strixhaven, but based on the spoiled cards, they seem to be getting "rid" of a lot of big name planeswalkers lately. Tamyio in Kamigawa, and now both Jaya and Ajani in this set. I like that they aren't afraid to potentially (or in the case of Jaya, actually) kill off main characters. Everything feels too sunshine and rainbows if there are no major losses.
August 25, 2022 5:41 p.m.
Jodah does look really cool. Five color "Dominaria legends only", here I come!!
Also, the basic land art for this set looks INCREDIBLE.
August 25, 2022 7:27 p.m.
I know Abaques said this near the top of of this thread, but I think it needs repeating: WotC needs to dial back the legendaries. So far, almost one out of every five revealed cards is a legendary creature, and it doesn't seem to be a particularly legendary-focused set. I don't think this will represent the final proportion, since they want to hype up the characters, but it's still diluting the uniqueness of each one.
Anyway, does anyone know what happened to the Dega/Ana/Ceta/Raka/Necra factions? This would have been a good place to at least make some callbacks.
August 25, 2022 8:11 p.m.
TheOfficialCreator says... #36
Jodah is epic. Ertai goes well with Yarok. So does Greensleeves. And the tapped dual lands..? Awesome. I love this set so much so far.
August 25, 2022 8:40 p.m.
The tapped dual lands were a nice surprise, for sure. Such great art, too!
Agreed about the hype for this set. My most anticipated one since Kaldheim and Commander Legends.
August 25, 2022 8:46 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #38
legendofa - This set is supposed to legendary creature focused so that's why there are so many of them. Hopefully the next few sets tone it down a bit.
Those new dual lands are nice budget options for sure.
I honestly thought Greensleaves was dead, but I guess she sort of just disappeared for a while. It's cool to see such an old call back.
Baru and Rosnakht are both pretty interesting. They are really laying heavily into the Kobold goofiness.
August 25, 2022 11:39 p.m.
Between Liliana of the Veil, Cut Down, Braids, Arisen Nightmare and The Raven Man there's enough pieces to play semi pox in standard. Throw in Duress, Dread Fugue, and Pilfer, plus a boardwipe or two and it's go time >:)
August 26, 2022 9:20 a.m.
legendofa Right now it's 34% of all first print spoiled cards (combining the main set and the commander set) are legendary. Dominaria United is basically just another commander legends product.
August 26, 2022 10:44 a.m.
Holy shit I think this is the first time they've referenced Portal Second Age since...Portal Second Age? Or at least since Dakmor Salvage lol
August 26, 2022 2:46 p.m.
TheoryCrafter says... #42
Here's my take:
Glad to finally see an Alt win Card in a new color scheme. Ajani, Sleeper Agent should be a boon to anyone looking to a Selesnya infect deck. If built right Abzan Infect Storm with Hand of the Praetors could be a possibility.
While Karn, Living Legacy doesn't add anything new to Tron or animate noncreature artifacts, it should be a help in Karn Tribal decks. The first ability can either help cast Karn Liberated sooner or be a support for the constructs made by by Karn, Scion of Urza. Plus it's ult can get around the Karn, the Great Creator/Mycosynth Lattice combo. KLL's power may be in its subtlety, but there's more to it. And I can't figure it out.
I'm liking the enlist mechanic. It should mesh well with exalted and other abilities and mechanics that give creatures a bonus for attacking alone.
The read ahead mechanic on the new sagas is a brilliant idea. You can farm the lore counters with Power Conduit, move them onto non-saga cards like Mind Unbound or speed up other Sagas through Nesting Grounds.
No new slivers or thrulls. Disappointing, but not unexpected.
As happy as I am about Liliana making an appearance, why reprint Liliana of the Veil, but not Arvad the Cursed? I don't know, maybe I'm being ridiculous.
Shivan Devastator is the kind of card I'd like to put in a monored Dragon deck. Now if the price can only come down a lot.
Tear Asunder is a huge upgrade from Revoke Existence.
While playable in 1v1 games, Ramses, Assassin Lord's alternate win ability is meant for multi-player. Unless of course you build a deck where everyone loses and Ramses prevents that.
Overall, we got a good set.
August 30, 2022 11:31 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #43
TheoryCrafter How does Karn, Living Legacy's +1 help cast Karn Liberated sooner? That's a non-artifact spell, isn't it?
August 31, 2022 midnight
420MensRightsActivist says... #45
i think Leaf-Crowned Visionary will definitely be modern playable, as will Vodalian Hexcatcher.
Electrostatic Infantry is sure to be a fun powerhouse in at least standard. grixis control or izzet turbo probably.
Tolarian Terror is easily a 1 mana 5/5 with ward 2 in multiple formats.
Bite Down is the exact same thing as Master's Rebuke. and both will be standard legal at the same time.
the "defiler" cycle doesn't quite seem balanced imo, with the blue and green ones being the obvious strongest.
Coral Colony seems good in an Arcades, the Strategist commander deck.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #2
Right now I am most hyped for Shivan Devastator as it is a literal Fireball in my Lozhan, Dragons' Legacy deck, a new Karn that looks pretty strong, and the return of Sheoldred with a spicy, but not too broken card.
I think I am in the minority here, but I think the stain-glass art for this set is too busy and not very attractive.
August 20, 2022 1:34 p.m.