What would be your top 3 picks for Modern unbans?
Modern forum
Posted on Nov. 28, 2014, 8:04 p.m. by forestlore44
Mine are: 1. Bloodbraid Elf
What's your picks?
forestlore44 says... #3
I meant whatever cards are on peoples wish lists.
November 28, 2014 8:13 p.m.
rockleemyhero says... #4
is the ban list update coming up soon or something? I keep seeing speculation threads on what they are unbanning in modern.
November 28, 2014 8:18 p.m.
Sensei's Divining Top would also be so much fun in modern with Counterbalance! Plus it's my favorite card.
November 28, 2014 8:18 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #6
Golgari Grave-Troll: Come on, he needs to be legal. Dredge isn't even good in legacy.
Ancestral Vision: Cruise is legal, why isn't this?
I wouldn't want anything else to be unbanned, because they should stay illegal for now.
Ashy Diving Top would be an awful unban, because then games would take at least 10 minutes longer. Artificially lengthening games is super awful, and one of the reasons people wanted a Jeskai Ascendancy ban. Second Sunrise was the same deal. Making a single turn take 10 minutes is really dumb.
November 28, 2014 9:17 p.m.
What I would like to see:1) Deathrite Shaman 2) Golgari Grave-Troll 3) Jace, the Mind Sculptor
What might actually work:1) Golgari Grave-Troll 2) Ancestral Vision 3) Stoneforge Mystic
I honestly think the meta could handle Stoneforge Mystic being back, as long as Umezawa's Jitte stays banned. It might at least be worth a shot.
November 28, 2014 9:33 p.m.
@JexInfinite of course, it was a joke, MASSIVE sarcasm XD lol. Though it is still my favorite card ever printed. And I agree with your points 100%. I guess cruise AND visions in the same deck would be awkward... Though it would enable some decks to keep up with cruise more for sure. Especially decks that can't afford to be going on a cruise.
November 28, 2014 10:13 p.m.
Ashy, every deck can afford a cruise. Every single damn deck - and that's why TC should get banned too.
November 28, 2014 11:09 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #11
Wouldn't mind Ancestral Vision being unbanned either.
Or that 4CMC Reanimator.
I'd like to see Dark Depths unbanned.
November 29, 2014 12:24 a.m.
@bigguy99 My deck vastly prefers Dig Through Time, by a LOT personally. But yeah cruise is widely accessible. I was trying to make a semi joke about a cruise for treasure being ludicrously expensive cough cough magic cruise cough cough. But it was ill conceived and delivered, lol
November 29, 2014 12:29 a.m.
Dread Return : they can keep the troll banned if I can make a dredge deck with other cards
Mental Misstep : would make so many plays comical, hurt burn, hurt delver, and probably a couple other decks such as the ramp decks that use hierarch and birds of paradise.
Cloudpost : would never happen but imagine the decks that would spawn through it. It would be somewhat comical, colorless tron....
November 29, 2014 12:45 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #14
As someone who plays pod, I'll just have to say that you're very wrong.
November 29, 2014 12:56 a.m.
ThatBlueMage then there are decks like Pod that don't even need to cruise. Strange world we live in.
November 29, 2014 1:41 a.m.
AgrusKosEnforcerofTruth says... #16
Sensei's Diving Top, Deathrite Shaman and Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Honorable mention to Stoneforge Mystic.
November 29, 2014 2:03 a.m.
Stoneforge Mystic - This one's a bit iffy, but the only REALLY good target is Batterskull. I feel like the meta could handle it fairly well. Might have to play other forms of removal and the deck would instantly be T1, but I don't think it would be degenerate.
Sword of the Meek - There is absolutely nothing about this that is too good for Modern. Affinity potentially gets a new toy, but there is a fuckton of hate on affinity that any deck (other than Mono Black) can play. It doesn't even remotely make Thopter Foundry broken.
Golgari Grave-Troll/Dread Return - If one (not both) were unbanned, then a reanimator deck could actually exist in Modern. I personally like the Troll more for the unban.
November 29, 2014 2:25 a.m.
November 29, 2014 2:35 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #19
Fulcrum Don't forget Sword of Fire and Ice. If Stoneforge were legal, control decks would have the upper hand against fast aggro decks, making all but Affinity useless. It would make Death and Taxes a proper deck, though, and porting it over to Legacy would only cost a few hundred dollars.
We absolutely need the GGT unbanning, though, and Ancestral Vision has no reason to be banned at all at the moment.
Instead of unbanning clearly broken cards, Wizards is probably just going to print 'fixed' versions of the cards.
November 29, 2014 2:53 a.m.
@JexInfinite: I agree with Ancestral Vision as long as they keep BBE banned. If they unban BBE, then Visions needs to stay banned. BBE unban seems unlikely though; it was banned somewhat recently wasn't it? I don't think it's particularly degenerate, just unlikely.
November 29, 2014 3 a.m.
I always hear the argument "well Treasure Cruise is legal so Ancestral Vision should be legal too". Do we really want blue to have access to TWO draw three spells? With all that card advantage my poor Jund deck would be overwhelmed.
November 29, 2014 4:03 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #22
Baltec Wizards has been trying to screw over attrition based decks for a while, now, and Vision would likely not see NEARLY as much play as Cruise.
November 29, 2014 4:05 a.m.
@JexInfinite Yeah, Wizards is doing us the dirty.
This is how I see games playing out:
Opponent turn one: Suspend Ancestral Vision
Me turn one: Thoughtseize
Insert 1920's Silent film fast forward music
Opponent turn five: Ancestral Vision trigger, casts Treasure Cruise...draw six cards.
Me turn five: I cry, Thoughtseize cries, midrange cries.
November 29, 2014 4:19 a.m.
IAmKingTony says... #24
if there's talk of banning Treasure Cruise they're not going to unban Ancestral Vision...
November 29, 2014 6:47 a.m.
no more card draw for blue please!!!!!!!! but i just want the JITTE one of my favorite cards of all time Green Sun's Zenith would be nice as well
November 29, 2014 7:23 a.m.
Baltec it is just kind of strange that Ancestral Vision is banned while Treasure Cruise, wich is the much stronger card, is legal.
November 29, 2014 7:46 a.m.
Oops didn't realize there was a second page already.
November 29, 2014 7:48 a.m.
Baltec Wizards havent 'screwed over' attrition and midrange, they're just bad decks in the meta. It's not even primarily treasure cruise that's the problem it's more to do with the prevalence of affinity, burn, and delver. Jund is awfully placed against most of those decks because whilst it does have decent sweepers it also has an incredibly draining mana base (T1 Verdant Catacombs into Overgrown Tomb - ew), incredibly draining hand disruption (Thoughtseize - ew), and incredibly draining card draw (Dark Confidant - ew). BGR has always been poor against the very, very fast decks just due to how suicidal it is, and the fact that a lot of the 1-for-1s we include are just too slow ie. an Abrupt Decay on a Goblin Guide is actually a bad play for us.
If you want more success you need to adapt to the meta and start looking at BGW. This is a deck that's been doing very well recently and is on the increase. It provides a counterpoint to the whole 'Wizards and/or Treasure Cruise are screwing over attrition' argument. BGW, swapping Dark Confidant for Siege Rhino and running a handful of Courser of Kruphix is doing remarkably well. It has efficient blocking from Lingering Souls and formidable staying power with all its life gain.
Turning our attention to Treasure Cruise running decks specifically; BG/x actually has a GOOD matchup against delver. The reason for this is that the low density of threats often means that removal spells force it to waste a turn cantrip-ing into a new wincon. Yes they can draw a ton of cards, but you need to think about that they're actually drawing into. With an average of 12-14 creatures per deck only one card in 4 or 5 is actually something that can stick to the board. This makes it incredibly easy to disrupt their plans.In terms of burn UR delver is better for us BG/x players than RDW because with more creatures in the deck it gives us more targets for Scavenging Ooze life gain. This actually helps a lot.
tl;dr - Wizards haven't screwed over midrange/attrition, we're just in an aggro period now and BG/x struggles against aggro sometimes. Adjust your deck accordingly and you'll be fine. I would urge you to remove Dark Confidant.
On topic:
Sword of the Meek. It has some fantastic combos but they're all somewhat slow. Definitely slower than Twin for example. I don't think it would be too prohibitive.
I think to some extent Hypergenesis MAYBE. The worst that could happen is you ramp into a T2 hypergenesis, and then get a T5 emrakul. The thing is - that's extremely unlikely to happen, and if you do build your deck around it it's a bit of a glass cannon. Even if you do manage it, you're very vulnerable to any deck running blue, or any deck running black hand disruption.
I'm not sure about a third.
November 29, 2014 8:18 a.m.
I see a few people either never got to experience or have forgot the Cawblade era if you think unbanning stoneforge would be fine for the health of the format. Prepare for list that run Stoneforge Mystic, Geist of Saint Traft and Delver of Secrets Flip everywhere if they did.
I also think the banlist should stay as is btw.
November 29, 2014 10:34 a.m.
Second sunrise unban or no ascendancy ban. The argument that turns take too long is only half valid. Anybody with any real experience with either deck could probably finish a combo in 5 minutes. During my time playing eggs when it was legal I would rarely take longer. One of the biggest contributors to speed is often Gitaxian Probe too. Either knowing to play around x cards or knowing you don't have to play around anything vastly speeds up play. Only people new to the deck take too long and they shouldn't be playing it at COMP Rel where it would matter. I actually think ban ascendancy unban sunrise. Ascendancy is far less uninteractive and can turn 2, which eggs can't. Eggs also gets hosed by similar hate to affinity (Stony Silence).
Realistic unban:Golgari-Grave TrollSword of the MeekSeething Song (never needed to be put on in the first place, and wouldn't even improve ur storm that much)
November 29, 2014 2:52 p.m.
Eggs and Storm are both miserable decks to play against. Any unban to benefit either of those decks would be terrible. Second Sunrise and Seething Song should both stay banned, and I'm all for banning Jeskai Ascendancy too.
November 29, 2014 3:04 p.m.
Jeskai ascendancy? You mean the deck that everyone panicked about but then subsequently failed to anything.
November 29, 2014 3:07 p.m.
Sorry, I should clarify: Jeskai Ascendancy isn't worthy of a ban at present. What I meant was that I would be in favor of banning it, if it emerged as a competitive deck the way Storm and Eggs did. Right now, its not remotely close to competitive, so no ban is needed.
November 29, 2014 3:11 p.m.
I would say that Miracles is a more depressing deck to play against. Banning something because it's 'miserable' to play against is an unacceptable reason. Completely subjective. Ur storm isn't close to t1 and Seething Song wouldn't put it there. Infect can win on turn 2 like Ascendancy but it requires a god hand, but none of that is banned in modern. It's turn 1 plays are as interactive.
November 29, 2014 3:23 p.m.
I think if it doesn't get banned in January it'll become a popular deck and then might require a ban.
November 29, 2014 3:25 p.m.
izzetderpmage851 says... #37
Here are my picks:
Ancestral Vision: 0H N03Z D3LV3R W1LL B G00D !11!!!11!11!!!one!111! Calm down guys, it's four turns. Four turns is enough for BGx to establish a reasonable amount of pressure, aggro to win outright, and control or tempo to find a Remand. T1 suspend Ancestral Vision conflicts with turn 1 Delver of Secrets Flip, and to nerf Delver, you just need to unban...
Deathrite Shaman: Treasure Cruise? What Treasure Cruise? An unban of the DRS makes delve cards practically a bad dream, and is good against tempo because it's proactive. It ramps you up, gains you life, and keeps the pressure on- which are all admittedly arguments for its banning, but there needs to be a check on Treasure Cruise, so why not do it while giving midrange a needed boost?
Dread Return: This is the card, not GGT, that would give Dredgevine and such power. Flame-Kin Zealot, for instance, reanimated turn 4 onto a board containing a Vengevine, two Narcomoeba, and a Bloodghast is brutal. Modern needs a tier 1 graveyard deck that isn't Delver.
November 29, 2014 3:27 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #38
@magicnerd0815 there's nothing 'strange' about it. the DCI only changes the b&r list when new sets come out. There hasn't been a new set since Delvecestral Recall was released - how would you expect them to have already banned it?
November 29, 2014 4:55 p.m.
Named_Tawyny I know. What I meant was that is Ancestral Vision should be unbanned if they don't ban Treasure Cruise since Cruise is the much stronger card and it doesn't makes any sence to have a card on the bannef list that's a way inferior version of legal card. Also I never said that I expect Cruise to be banned. And if a card is really oppressive it can be emergency banned independent of set releases.
November 29, 2014 5:16 p.m.
Treasure Cruise will definitely not be banned. It is supremely good, but not so game breaking that it needs a ban. Even if you can cast it for 
, there still need to be cards in the yard to delve away. The earliest that can realistically happen consistently is about T3-T4. Only being a turn or 2 faster than Ancestral Vision makes me think the latter should be unbanned.
November 29, 2014 7:54 p.m.
Wizards have already said there will be no changes. Whilst ancestral vision is probably worse than trensure cruise, giving blue access to both would be crippling.
It's like if they made another card that does 3 damage for 1 mana, like Lightning Bolt. Whilst it would be no better or worse than the existing version, it would be banned. The reason being that having multiple cards that all do roughly the same thing can be really degenerate.
November 29, 2014 8:07 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #42
Llanowar Elves, Elvish Mystic, and Fyndhorn Elves being a great example. Mmmm 12 
rampers... ;)
November 29, 2014 9:22 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #43
Judicious Infect hardly needs a God hand and T2 wins are not too uncommon at all.
November 29, 2014 9:27 p.m.
Blizzicane says... #44
If anything needs to get off the list its Golgari Grave-Troll without Dread Return its not game breaking. :3
November 29, 2014 9:34 p.m.
If t2 isn't uncommon and we're in a turn 4 world I see no reason for ascendancy to get banned.
November 30, 2014 4:33 a.m.
It probably won't be banned anyway. I mean, it COULD be but it's not likely. Whilst a powerful deck in theory, in practice it doesn't perform anything like the way it should. No-one's actually playing it anymore and it'll probably stay that way because its the glass cannon to end all glass cannons.
November 30, 2014 6:36 a.m.
Dalektable says... #47
1) Sword of the Meek. I really want to play Esper Tokens with the card now. I am slightly obsessed.
2) Preordain. I worship chaos. Give it to me. It would be fine. Probably.
3) Deathrite Shaman. No, I don't play B/G.
November 30, 2014 11:53 a.m.
KillDatBUG says... #48
Perhaps the artifact lands? ie.
What do you guys think?
November 30, 2014 3:37 p.m.
No chance. They'd make affinity too good. The only deck they'd make fair is Tezz decks.
November 30, 2014 3:39 p.m.
I don't know why you're all so eager to throw Golgari Grave-Troll into the meta. We just got some insane Delve cards, and the addition of Grave-Troll would make a new Sultai archetype using Tarmogoyfs, Liliana of the Veils, Treasure Cruise, Snapcasters... something nasty like that.
Ashy says... #2
I mean is this for most likely, or what we want unbanned?
For most likely I'd probably say, Bloodbraid Elf Ancestral Vision and also Golgari Grave-Troll if they had to unban 3.
What I want to be unbanned are: Jace, the Mind Sculptor Stoneforge Mystic and Umezawa's Jitte, because I want to play stoneblade in modern too :3
November 28, 2014 8:07 p.m.