|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Modern Masters 2017 Edition (MM3)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
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Creature — Goblin Scout
Whenever Goblin Guide attacks, defending player reveals the top card of his or her library. If it's a land card, that player puts it into his or her hand.
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Goblin Guide Discussion
7 hours ago
Probably want Goblin Guide, it's just better than lavarunner since giving the opponent an occasional land really isn't that important to a burn deck.
1 day ago
Goblin Rabblemaster great card to consider. Not seen in a lot of lists but could be good in the side
1 week ago
Abrupt Decay is still relevant against Tron in case they have Chalice of the Void, which they most definitely want in play on 2 versus G/B/x Midrange. It's always sided out against Control, but so is Assassin's Trophy. The important part is that it's uncounterable to blow up random cards like Search for Azcanta Flip.
I'd cut a single Maelstrom Pulse and a single Abrupt Decay for 2x Assassin's Trophy. Maelstrom Pulse has always been a slow, terrible card G/B/x had to put up with because it's the only thing that does one particular job (unconditional, universal removal). It's still relevant that you'll occasionally get 2+ Goblin Guides with it, or Lingering Souls tokens.
You also still want Terminates because it's one of Jund's strongest removal spells. If anything, you're boarding out Lightning Bolts and keeping Terminates because it kills Tarmogoyf, Griselbrand, Thought-Knot Seer, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, and so on and so forth. In other words, it's good against Control and Midrange who have large creatures that can't be killed by Lightning Bolt.
1 week ago
You might consider anthem effects instead, Lightning Helix, etc. Also: Boros Elite is a reasonable card, but does suffer a drawback in that it's not red for Denizen. Goblin Guide is a really good alternative, or even Mogg Fanatic.
1 week ago
oh and btw, it can be done with a Boros Charm.
turn 1: Goblin Guide. 2 damage.
1 week ago
@Xica, No, you're not wrong about those lines of plays, but Sleeper Agent isn't a turn one play. 100% of the time if I have a Monastery Swiftspear or Goblin Guide those will always go first. The thing about Agent is that he requires some thought. Aggressive decks like jund don't hold too much concern for their life totals given their mana bases along with Thoughtseize which would warrant using him just as a Shock in the late game as a finisher in this case. That's not true for all decks. Some decks might not even have any use for a free 3/3 like infect and so the Agent is played much earlier. Sometimes it's the equivalent of a 1 mana Char finishing them with a total of 4 damage while only dealing 3 to us. If I'm blind to a deck I'm playing against 80% of the time the agent is cast turns 3 or 4 and on odd hands the other 20% would be on turn 2. As you have said the Agent is only bad if I'm losing the race, and even then main-deck cards such as Niveous Wisps and Path to Exile while good for turning off blockers can also be used to turn off attackers if necessary as well, which is how those spells compliment each other.
Your point on Chalice of the Void however is irrefutable, but then again Chalice of the Void is a sideboard card. I do not see decks running it in the mainboard and just like Leyline of Sanctity would equally hose just about any burn deck, burn decks run cards in the sideboard so as to not fold under cards like Leyline of Sanctity or in this case Chalice of the Void. Just because they board it in doesn't mean it will be present in every game it's boarded in from (as having it in hand is a matter of chance), and just as equally every time it is played in game 2 or game 3 doesn't mean I will never have that answer in hand that was boarded in to respond back against it. (I can board in Shattering Spree or Smash to Smithereens if need be.)
Lastly sac outlets was a rather odd point to make as I don't believe there are any around. You brought up Viscera Seer which was a bridgevine semi-staple until Stitcher's Supplier was printed which practically removed all of them in favor of the supplier. Furthermore if they have a Bridge from Below wouldn't sac'ing the agent put the Sleeper Agent in my graveyard effectively exiling their Bridge from Below rather than give them a zombie token thus the point you brought up works to my advantage? Also Arcbound Ravager says sacrifice an artifact which the Sleeper Agent is not so I'm a bit baffled as to why you've brought that up as well unless I'm missing something here.
Again the Sleeper Agent is just one card and if there is a match-up that just so happens to have an advantage over one card that's not going to be the end of my deck as a whole. I'd argue there are more match-ups where the Agent is better in which justifies it's inclusion as burn decks tend to race better than most other decks.
I mean no ill-will for disagreeing with you like this, and yes damage that can target creatures as well can be important as that too provides flexibility, but unlike a lot of burn decks I'm running Shard Volley which can also target creatures if desperately needed for such situations and Path to Exile practically works for creatures as well, which makes up for the lack of Lightning Helix or Rift Bolt while doing so for less mana even. Plus cards like Lava Spike and the aforementioned Shard Volley can hit planeswalkers as well, so the options are still there in any case.
@DragonKing90, Goldfish turn-3 wins? Okay let me just stop you right there. You can not goldfish a turn 3 win by using Boros Charm, Searing Blaze, Lightning Helix, or Skullcrack. Run any scenario in your head using just one of those cards and the closest you get is 19 damage which arguably can be game even if it's not 20, but that's only if you try to squeeze in just one Boros Charm under the optimal circumstances. If you try to fit in 2 two-mana damage spells, even if we're generous and say they're both Boros Charm the amount of damage dealt by turn 3 decreases. Contradictory however the cards in my deck that aren't found in other burn lists such as Shard Volley, Bump in the Night, and Sleeper Agent can all be used to achieve 20 or more damage by turn 3. (These are facts as I'd invite you to do the calculations for yourself if you don't believe me.) In essence this deck can turn-3 win more consistently than your average burn deck, but this wasn't a point I wanted to make, because we're talking about gold-fishing and not real matches. I was only trying to draw comparisons to indicate potential to drum up interest in finding real results, not to win any kind of online forum debate. Regardless all there is to gather from is potential and speculation without data.
The point is professional Modern players often test their decks against many other archetypes so that they can obtain a better understanding of how well their deck performs in the meta. This can be done by religiously joining in most events or building the other archetypes themselves just to generate hypothetical matches. This is something I don't have as my local player-base does not run these decks, I don't have the cash to build different archetypes, and I'm simply not experienced enough to pilot those decks optimally to generate said results even if I could afford such decklists. All I can do is advertise on potential and speculation so that experienced Modern players who do regularly check their match-ups against burn may consider running a few hypothetical match-ups with my deck against theirs in order to generate real results on win/loss ratio as well as provide comparisons on their individual deck's win/loss ratio to traditional burn match-ups. I wouldn't be asking this if the speculation or potential I've ascertained through gold-fishing was bad as failing to generate positive outcomes through gold-fishing would never warrant further testing, but in this case from what speculation and potential I've been able to derive from gold-fishing I feel this deck deserves hypothetical matches to be conducted to determine it's odds. I'm not saying this is a better burn deck, just that it has enough potential to make it worth consideration to determine if that is the case, and if it's not the case that's fine but for now all we can do is float around "if it will" rather than "it does/does-not." As I've said before, I'm looking for results. You can use speculation to make any deck look as good or bad as you want it to be, but speculation is not synonymous with fact and it's the facts I'm most interested in.
1 week ago
@Xica, Sure, but Sleeper Agent is just one creature. If they remove Sleeper Agent then that's a removal spell not used on a Goblin Guide or Monastery Swiftspear or Earthshaker Khenra. All the creatures effectively put out the same amount of damage and it's not like the deck revolves around the Agent. Quite simply it's just another Goblin Guide in essence and it's that redundancy that matters.
@DragonKing90, asustek, well that's why I'm reaching out to people for results. I can goldfish this deck and it does hit 20 by turn 4 more times than ever it does turn 5 and those turn 5 wins are on situations like keeping a 1 land hand. If you were to goldfish a typical burn deck I'm sure you'd get the same results, but then again I don't have access to any means of testing this deck beyond gold-fishing which is the reason why I posted this thread and yet people are giving me weird remarks for restating what I've previously said. I'd like to expand my efforts of testing this deck against others so that I can verify it's potential, but by myself I'm unable to - thus any person who has access to their own Modern deck I'd more than welcome running a game scenario with their deck and mine using the playtest feature as I'm highly interested in results and not speculation.
As for speed I simply disagree, this deck runs just as fast, but it's more flexible. Remember I'm trading out Lightning Helix, Skullcrack, Boros Charm with one-mana can-trips which means if that extra draw gives me any of my 16 one-mana bolt effects I've simply dealt just as much damage spending just as much mana and that's not even counting the extra damage dealt due to disabling a potential blocker as well as additional prowess triggers for casting two spells. So at worst I'm dealing 3 damage with two mana, at best I'm dealing 5 which is a considerable upgrade than the two mana spells I'm replacing, and while that extra damage is not enough to do anything crazy like consistently pulling off turn 3 wins I find that after the deck has counted to 20 it still has extra resources it can use to keep dealing damage with which is good to have if during the line of play one of my creatures gets removed early or if the opponent has gained life.
The point to make is this deck maintains speed for more flexibility - hence dynamism. A lower curve is more forgiving under tight mana conditions and cantrips make it surprisingly easy to top-deck that land you badly need/want on turn 2/3, thus I feel this deck has less bad games due to bad hands/draws than most other burn decks. That's not to say it doesn't ever have bad games, it just suffers from them less often.
In conclusion, gold-fishing does not equate to real matches hence the purpose of requesting help posting this thread, Eidolon of the Great Revel is conditional if you're on the draw or your opponent plays big spells as it clashes with whether to get more haste creatures out or not, and Sleeper Agent can be effectively another Goblin Guide or cheaper unconditional Eidolon of the Great Revel if you want to see it that way too, but while we can spend all day making this a speculation debate I was hoping that my long thought-out thread would at least prove thought-provoking enough for people to want to test against my deck as I am without the means to do that myself. Again arguing seems like such a charming way to make such a request, but getting told it's probably not worth consideration of testing due to speculation seems paradoxical to wanting to test something out so that you'd have a better understanding of it rather than relying on just speculation. It's like:
1 week ago
Some of the mechanics of this deck different than typical Burn, Pyromancer, Storm, Goblin, or Hollow One decks. In 8-Flame you want to increase the number of damage triggers on a specific turn while you benefit from +2 damage and double damage modifiers.
I'd like to clarify the use of several cards for StopShot and anyone else who's been wondering about card choices.
Regarding Monastery Swiftspear and prowess triggers, there are actually 14 noncreature spells and an additional 20 lands that can be used as "retrace" targets of the noncreature spell Flame Jab. That means more than half the cards in the deck can trigger prowess!
Unfortunately Curse of the Pierced Heart must deal damage during the opponent’s turn when it should not or cannot be modified by either Quest for Pure Flame or The Flame of Keld, respectively. If Curse of the Pierced Heart trigger on it’s owner’s turn after the draw step, it could be a staple in this deck.
The graveyard card sources for Grim Lavamancer include the 8 self-sacrificing creatures Spark Elemental and Keldon Marauders as well as the 8 Flame enchantments, the 4 Flame Jabs (only one Flame Jab needs to remain in the graveyard for “Retrace”) and some of the 20 "Retraced" Mountain cards. The Scorched Rusalkas can sacrifice your other creatures on demand. Most of the deck and go to the graveyard and fuel the two Grim Lavamancers!
Scorched Rusalka has more good uses. It can sacrifice itself and other creatures you control after combat the same turn that Quest for Pure Flame and The Flame of Keld are increasing damage. (You can achieve as much as 6 damage for each creature sacrificed with just one Quest for Pure Flame and one The Flame of Keld modifying the damage!) Scorched Rusalka's ability can also be done at instant speed in response to removal. Scorched Rusalka helps fuel Grim Lavamancer.
Having cleared up reasons for card choices, I do appreciate your advice. Goblin Guide, Fanatical Firebrand, and Goblin Grenade are attractive options. I may try them later in a goblin variant of the 8-Flame deck!