|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Iconic Masters (IMA)||Rare|
|Duel Decks: Jace vs. Chandra (DD2)||Rare|
|Time Spiral (TSP)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
Ancestral Vision is blue.
Suspend 4-(Blue) (Rather than play this card from your hand, pay (Blue) and remove it from the game with four time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is removed, play it without paying its mana cost.)
Target player draws three cards.
Ancestral Vision Discussion
9 hours ago
I have a slightly different take on the Shared Fate archetype. The traditional method of making the deck is to not have any win conditions, and win by stealing your opponents' things. The problem is that this leaves you open to all the opponents' mischief. And any removal spell that you can use to slow them down will be used against you when you cast a threat from their library. This almost guarantees the opponent will always have a superior board position: anything you have that is good against their board before Shared Fate will be good against you after.
So, what you want are cards that break the symmetry:
Suspend: Suspend cards can only be suspended from your hand. An opponent could not suspend Ancestral Vision , and could not cast it for its mana cost, effectively making it a blank card under Shared Fate. Other suspend cards like Ith, High Arcanist or Mindstab , the opponent would have to wait many turns before being able to cast, if it even did them any good.
Flashback: These are generally symmetric. Before Shared Fate, you can cast it twice. After Shared Fate, the opponent can cast it, and then you can cast it. Lingering Souls is the best one, because it's cheaper for you to flashback then for them to cast.
Aftermath: I'm sure you heard this before, but the opponent can get the first half of the spell, but only you can get the aftermath half. These vary wildly in usefulness, but Never Cut Rags Spring Farm Start are all worth considering, especially because you can still get the first half before Shared Fate is on the battlefield.
Eternalize: These cards work differently from your graveyard, allowing you to actually have win conditions. Consider, for example: Proven Combatant . Before Shared Fate, you have a 1-mana 1/1. After Shared Fate, your opponent gets a 1-mana 1/1, but you get a 6-mana 4/4. Bonus points, because it's a zombie and cannot be targeted by Victim of Night , allowing you to have removal spells that can kill the opponent's creatures, but the opponent cannot use to kill your eternalized creatures. Of these, Adorned Pouncer , Sunscourge Champion and Dreamstealer are the pretty good, but Champion of Wits is absolutely nuts: eternalizing it with Shared Fate on the battlefield is "draw 4" with no drawback.
Dredge: You can choose which draw replacement effect replaces your draw, allowing you to dredge even from under Shared Fate. This means you can always get your Darkblast . Bonus points if you're using Aftermath and Eternalize cards.
Origins Flip Planeswalkers: This cycle of 5 specifically says to return it to the battlefield under its owners' control, so an opponent could never control them in their planeswalker form. I saw you had the blue one in your deck, but only Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip can be forced to transform against her controller's will (the opponent will still get the 2/2 zombie she makes).
Cycling: Cards that cycle must be in your hand, but there are a few important cards to consider: Gempalm Polluter and Krosan Tusker don't have any abilities for casting them normally, only cycling. Faerie Macabre isn't really cycling, but it is important because it is one of the few graveyard hate spells the opponent cannot use from under Shared Fate.
Recover: These cards from Coldsnap allow you to keep putting the card back in your hand from your graveyard, if you have the mana to do so. None of the cards its printed on are particularly good, but of these Sun's Bounty , Krovikan Rot and Grim Harvest might be the closest to playable. It's too bad there aren't more good cards in red for Shared Fate, because Rekindled Flame is pretty sweet.
Other: Fragmentize can kill a Leyline of the Void but not a Shared Fate . Damping Matrix and Damping Sphere work regardless of who played them. You'll be able to cast Panglacial Wurm when cracking a fetchland you got from the opponent's deck. If you have any targeting spells or abilities that only you can repeatedly use (like Darkblast ), or ways to exile it from your graveyard that only you can use (like Bone Dragon ) then Eternal Scourge can provide a lot of value.
You're probably wondering about how any or all of these ideas fit the theme of Shared Fate, and the answer is simple: unlike the traditional style, where you're trying to beat them with their deck, these ideas center around a Shared Deck; both you and the opponent will be playing your cards, and it doesn't really matter what's in their library. Sure, their cards give you more options, but the idea is that you can win without ever casting anything of theirs.
17 hours ago
Came up with a short list of some cards you might like to run: Ancestral Vision , Arcane Denial , Archmage's Charm , Cryptic Command , Dream Fracture , Exclude , Grip of Amnesia , Mystic Confluence , Overwhelming Intellect , Sage's Dousing , Toothy, Imaginary Friend , Chasm Skulker
4 days ago
Hello there yay,
I have seen FurFur's list before. I don't agree that it's an optimisation of this deck, but rather a deck that plays the same commander with a different goal. The goal of his deck it to mill himself and win through an empty library, rather than storm off. This is reflected in some of the card choices, which do not fit this specific style of deck.
The goal of your deck does seem to storm off, although I must admit I fail to see the actual wincon in your deck. I agree with the fact that your deck is faster on average, but not with the fact that it's more consistent. Your deck seems to rely solely on getting your commander out as fast as possible, then win through its ability. If he's ever stopped, there are a lot of cards in your deck that do nothing, while one of the strengths of this deck is that there are very few dead cards. Because of this, I feel the consistency of your deck is lower rather than higher. If, in your meta, Yidris always connects I can see why you would say it's more consistent. Speaking of dead cards outside of cascade turns, Wheel of Fate is one of those cards. I used to play it, but it was often not needed in the cascade turns and absolutely horrible outside of it. Paying two mana and waiting four turns allows your opponents to prepare for it way too well, by countering it or emptying their own hands...if you're not dead before it's being cast. Lotus Bloom and Ancestral Vision at least have lower costs and/or take less long to suspend, as well as providing value only to yourself.
Thanks for the comment and suggestions. If you feel like my assessment is wrong, please correct me. One other thing I'm wondering is whether you ever have problems with your manabase. Your deck seems pretty evenly split among four colours, which seems hard on the manabase. I don't have experience with this, however, so please let me know.
2 weeks ago
This is a bit of a long one, but I'd like to respond to all the comments haha,
Love the deck name. The First Sliver is very fast and can be brutal when the opponent can't blow you out. Swarming the field can be enough to slaughter your opponent if its 1v1. It's definitely much harder if your partner has killed your commander 3 times and forced it to become 11 cmc! But of course, still very good.
In non 1v1 it could be harder, but then it could be still ok as well, depends on the meta and the politics in the play group. I never realised how important politics were until I played one of my other favourite decks: Queen Marchesa . Sometimes I face 1 control deck and 2 other aggro decks and I find that we all team up to take down the control deck because it can easily blow us all up with an Evacuation or Cyclonic Rift . In a meta full of other aggro decks, sometimes I find there are more threatening challengers, e.g. Edgar Markov which can start of WAY faster, Maelstrom Wanderer which can just win in a single turn, and Reanimator strategies which summon giant unstoppable threats. In a full combo meta, you might find that you get a lot of support if you make deals with people to assist in taking down a combo player. One of my friends was playing Kess, Dissident Mage storm and everyone countered his boardwipes so I could get in to finish him before he went off. Certainly where no one plays politics, you will seem quite threatening because you're the 'sliver' guy (definitely a dirty word). The First Sliver is very threatening, but it has some weaknesses (e.g. board wipes) and may be portrayed as more 'dirty' than it actually is. If you make it clear what your weaknesses are, play it patient + look for windows where you can surprise kill people, and make it clear that you play a role in keeping the peace (that you're valuable to keep alive), it won't be too bad and people won't see The First Sliver as THAT big of a threat (albeit still a threat haha). When you attack, share the love. When you go in for the kill, be sure u can kill them dead.
I hope you have fun at the LGS! I'm actually overseas on vacation at the moment, but in July I'll be back at my LGS and keen to slam some games with this deck.
Thanks for the constructive criticism; I don't think it's negative at all and very useful. I hope I get more comments like this. I'll try to address all the points, please let me know if I missed anything!
- Hitting 5 mana consistently
You'd be surprised at how often the deck is able to get to 5 mana. I based the land count off my predecessor sliver lists, though after play testing, I found that 35 was good myself. We don't really thin the deck of lands so we draw lands quite a lot. If worse comes to worse, you might need to mull, but as soon as you hit 5 lands you can do much of what the deck was designed to do.
We have ramp in the form of Manaweft Sliver , Gemhide Sliver , Cultivate , Kodama's Reach , Herald's Horn , Urza's Incubator and even 2 pseudo-power cards as ramp (as well as ways to search for them/draw them). But you're right about the lack of ramp. Hence, I've I mentioned in one of the previous comments (#10) that I'll be trying to add more "ramp/rocks to ensure consistency as well as enough mana in the late game". Ultimately, however, I do want to minimise the number of non-sliver cards. The gimmick of this deck just aims to cascade as much as possible and play the pseudo-power cards. We don't risk cascading into ramp by accident, which is what I didn't like about my Maelstrom Wanderer deck, so the ceiling is high, but there is the trade-off.
The deck seems to do fine in getting to 5 from what I've seen, though I'll report back after further tests. Even if it doesn't hit 5 lands on 5, it doesn't mean doom. The deck is admittedly quite glass cannon regarding lands, though by virtue, it also has a high ceiling. Maybe after testing more, I'll go up to 36, but I will need to find room for that extra land. I'm considering even putting in utility lands (see comment #10) which will grind us advantage while also adding to the land count.
Much of the lands come in tapped yes, but in the guide I wrote that this was a budget mana base. I also suggested to use fetches, shocks (and even duals) if you had them available to you. The lands will come in tapped in this build, though if you sequence correctly it should not be too much of a hindrance.
Ultimately, I keep my low land count because: As you said I mentioned, the deck is fast. For the most part, 5 mana is all you need to go off because you'll be casting multiple slivers off each trigger (we also have acceleration cards that allow free casting, such as Descendants' Path and the hideaway lands, so we can do more with less mana). This low count also ensures you draw as most slivers as possible.
- Recasting the commander
You are completely correct in noticing the weakness in The First Sliver being removed and being hard to be recasted. In comment #4 I stated that after play testing the The First Sliver became widely feared and was likely to be removed. Therefore I suggested to add in Diffusion Sliver . The idea is to either have enough lands or play protection before you cast The First Sliver (for now, but, as I mentioned, I definitely would like to try tech in more ramp, though what we have now is not too bad). Also, you have to be aware that as soon as you cascade a few times after, you're very likely to hit Mox Tantalite and Lotus Bloom which will keep you in the game until you hit more lands and the card draw engines (including Ancestral Vision ) will draw you into more.
As for protection, I consider cards that leave The First Sliver 's casting cost at 5 as protection as well (I probably should have been more clear about this). As long as you can replay your commander, it can do its job. These include: Crypt Sliver , Hibernation Sliver , Frenetic Sliver , Pulmonic Sliver , Sliver Hivelord , Ward Sliver , Crystalline Sliver and ways of searching. Sometimes these slivers will be situational (e.g. some cannot defend against exile effects), though patience and not presenting yourself as a threat before getting these cards out is the key. Sometimes you just need to play without The First Sliver abit. You can also let your commander go to the grave and use Graveshifter or Volrath's Stronghold .
Again, there are also other utility lands which I want to tech in (see comment #10) which will act as recursion after The First Sliver dies. In saying this, I avoid non-sliver protection spells for the same reason I try minimise ramp spells: ending the cascade chain. Also, I would rather draw slivers or non-sliver cards that accelerate us in the late game + while some of the slivers I mentioned account for board-wipes, the non-creature shroud/hex proof cards will leave you with no slivers to protect after a wrath.
Thanks for the feedback! I'll definitely test with more ramp and lands for sure.
This is an interesting suggestion, I haven't really considered it. Though there seem to be some downsides.
Aetherflux Reservoir could be good as we cast so many spells off cascade. This can lead to finishing opponents off early. However, we don't cast enough spells to gain us up to 111 life (assuming this is a standard game with 4 players and everyone at 40 life, leaving us at 1 after Aetherflux Reservoir ). Based on the triangle number sequence, if we cast 4 creatures we will deal 10 damage. If we cast 5 (the average) we will deal 15 damage. If we cast 6, we will deal 21 damage. This will take at least 6 turns to get to 111 life, by which the opponents will have destruction for the Aetherflux Reservoir and we can't protect it, lacking any counters in the deck (a bit too glass cannon?). We are also so aggressive that we can normally already kill under 6 turns when we do go off. Because the lack of defensiveness this deck has, we will also be taking a lot of damage from other aggro decks. This will be worse for us if we play Aetherflux Reservoir , because we will likely become more archenemy than we already are; we can definitely take out 1 or 2 players, but our life will be too at risk from the last player. This also encourages going all out with casting our hand, which may cause us to over-extend and blow out.
This may be assisted by Essence Sliver though such may be a bit inconsistent. Furthermore, it's a risk to cascade into it and is a card that we don't necessarily want in the late game, having cast everything we have already.
Though again, my theorising is all on paper and I might give it a try? In practice who's to say it won't work? With aggression from our deck we may not even need to reach 100 life. Very interesting suggestion.
- Thank you all for the feedback! I like constructive criticism and will continue to improve this build.
2 weeks ago
The archetype of "Flying Men" is certainly a fun one and cheaper than many other Canadian Highlander decks. A few suggestions one could make are the inclusions of cards like Preordain , Serum Visions , Dig Through Time and Ancestral Vision for card draw and card selection in addition Ponder and Opt which you have already included. Also, perhaps adding fetchlands to the deck could enable finding Watery Grave more easily. Moreover, Vendilion Clique would be a perfect fit for the deck. Last but not least, you could splash white for removal like Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile , along with more flying one-drops such as Healer's Hawk , Duskborne Skymarcher , Loyal Pegasus , Suntail Hawk and more, as these creatures synergize with Favorable Winds , unlike other creatures in the deck like Triton Shorestalker , which do not. Sorry for the length of the response, hope it was even a tiny bit helpful. Nonetheless, Canadian Highlander is such a fun and diverse format, so just play what you enjoy most!
2 weeks ago
3 weeks ago
3 weeks ago
Also, TypicalTimmy, sorry to nitpick, but although lands have no mana cost, they still have a CMC of 0. This same interaction is what allows stuff like Ancestral Vision to be cast from an X=0 Electrodominance , and allows this Jarad to recur opposing lands for free.
Ancestral Vision occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.13%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%