Bringing down the Esper titan
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on May 18, 2015, 2:15 p.m. by GeRmS3
My friends and I recently started playing magic with a buddy of ours, who has been playing for awhile now. Our play group is usually pretty small.. with us playing pretty casual decks. All except my one friend who insists on playing his all powerful Esper hard control deck. Long story short.. what is a good theme or commander for beating up Esper control?
Epochalyptik says... #3
Also, it already sounds like there's a playgroup issue here. Consider reading this.
May 18, 2015 2:22 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #5
My buddy Octrate has a pretty brutal Xenagos, God of Revels control-breaker deck you should check out :)
May 18, 2015 3:03 p.m.
Actually, I smell Oloro, Agless Ascetic combo-control here rather than Zur... But I digress.
I agree whole-heartedly with Epoch, this isn't a beat the deck issue. This is a fundamental play group issue. If the mentioned party playing the group giant can't tone it back and the rest of the group can't keep up with him then just move on. The two groups are obviously looking for different things from the game.
May 18, 2015 3:05 p.m.
DeathChant17 says... #8
Just play straight blue control. Or 
. Counter, bounce, detain, and beefed up unblockable creatures.
May 18, 2015 4:07 p.m.
May 18, 2015 5:58 p.m.
jandrobard says... #12
You could always combo out faster than he gets answers online, or run Surrak Dragonclaw midrange-ey beatdown.
May 18, 2015 8:38 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #13
Who is he running, and how is he winning? I think the "I need to beat this deck" mindset is great. You will learn to build better, and take him by surprise.
What do you like running, and what are you currently using? What colors/mechanics/other mtg things do you like?
May 18, 2015 10:47 p.m.
Sorry this was a rather vague thread.. My Esper friend plays Oloro, Ageless Ascetic with me running a Karador, Ghost Chieftain. His Esper deck doesn't actually have any combos in it to win.. it's just a slow suffocating deck, denying all board presence and having counter-spells in spades. The occasional Bribery.. etc etc. I enjoy the reanimation in Karador, but in my frustration I also made a combo-y Prossh, Skyraider of Kher deck. I only started playing in Khans block so knowledge of Magic is pretty limited.. I also don't wanna stoop to his level and just make an Esper or another crazy control only deck.
May 19, 2015 2:36 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #15
If that's not the kind of game you and your playgroup want, tell him to stop playing the deck. I've played against the 40-land-60-counterspell decks before and they're not even real decks. They don't bring anything to the game.
Otherwise, you could build a tax, stax, or anti-control deck to counter him specifically.
May 19, 2015 2:59 p.m.
Yeah.. he loves that deck. I tried making a Lazav, Dimir Mastermind mill deck.. because I figured if he couldn't play his spells if I milled most.. however, in a multiplayer setting it wasn't that great. What is anti-control? More blue? or R/G??
May 19, 2015 3:28 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #17
Well it's not limited to a color combination, but the deck I mentioned earlier is R/G. Should I like to the deck? It's not mine, so it's not really plugging.
May 19, 2015 3:37 p.m.
Gorgosaurusrex says... #19
I second Epochalyptik's suggestion: Play Stax.
Stax staples include (but are not limited to):
Smokestack
Tangle Wire
Static Orb
Winter Orb
Trinisphere
Lodestone Golem
Sphere of Resistance
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
These cards can be played in any color and will lock down the board with proper use.
Gaddock Teeg, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Hokori, Dust Drinker, Nicol Bolas, Glissa, the Traitor, and Kataki, War's Wage are some of the commanders that I've seen used.
U/W is great for cards like Propaganda, Ghostly Prison, Aura of Silence, etc.
Playing Stax is a good way to show someone that their way of playing MTG for fun may not coincide with someone else's.
May 19, 2015 4:08 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #20
I like Teeg.
Hall of Gemstone, Grand Abolisher, Dosan the Falling Leaf are all really good against control too.
May 19, 2015 4:23 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #21
America is also a decent anti-control setup because you can run LD, tax, and control all in one package.
Key cards:
Aven Mindcensor
Grand Abolisher
Hushwing Gryff
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Red Elemental Blast
Pyroblast
Angel of Jubilation
Stranglehold
Ruination (needs to be used carefully)
Back to Basics
Supreme Verdict
You can combo Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir with Knowledge Pool or Curse of Exhaustion.
May 19, 2015 5:55 p.m.
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic you say?
Leyline of Punishment, Sulfuric Vortex, Rain of Gore
Now that his commander is silver-bulleted run an aggro deck and drive his life total into the dirt.
May 21, 2015 12:27 a.m.
Wow thanks for all the advice! That Price of Glory card looks crazy. I think I'm going to try more to add more combos in my Karador deck.
May 22, 2015 1:59 p.m.
Rain of Gore perfect for those life gain decks. Only real issue is it effects everyone.
May 23, 2015 12:04 p.m.
That's not an issue, it's a plus. You just have to make sure you're not running any effects that force you to gain life. (Keep in mind that lifelink gets around it's effect.)
May 23, 2015 5:08 p.m.
You can actually play your Karador deck with the other Esper dude being frustrating, is just a matter of getting a few key green pieces that will stop his nonsense.
Don't like theft? Homeward Path and/or Brooding Saurian
Don't like exile? Riftsweeper and/or Pull from Eternity
Don't like removal... well you are a Karador deck so your dudes dying shouldn't be too much issue, but if it is, toss in an Asceticism or Archetype of Endurance.
As for counter magic, that one is pretty simple too. Gaea's Herald, Leyline of Lifeforce, Summoning Trap.
A couple catch alls for this whole pile is Dosan the Falling Leaf and City of Solitude. Only city if you want to spend the money.
After a few games of you turning Mr Esper "No" OFF, he will either get the hint, or stop playing with you.
May 24, 2015 5:35 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #28
sonnet666 how does lifelink get around Rain of Gore's ability? Lifelink is an ability, thus covered under it. (Or am I wrong about that? Someone clarify if I am.)
May 24, 2015 5:50 p.m.
Lifeline changes the rules of combat, and is a keyword of the creature, not an ability (something that activates or triggers).
May 24, 2015 5:53 p.m.
I did put a Dragonlord Dromoka in there as well as Grand Abolisher and that does help, but yes those hexproof cards would not hurt. Like I said I'm also pretty new to MTG so my plays might not be always great. Maybe more recursion would help though.. because he A LOT of board wipes.
May 24, 2015 6:32 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #31
Lifelink is a static ability that cause it's controller to gain life. So no it doesn't get around Rain of Gore.
May 25, 2015 6:43 a.m.
First and only ruling:
4/15/2013 This does not apply to life gain caused by combat damage from a creature with lifelink.
May 25, 2015 11:09 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #33
Lifelink is a static ability, but it just modifies the results of damage. The damage, which is neither a spell nor an ability, is causing the life gain, so Rain of Gore's ability does not prevent the gain.
Epochalyptik says... #2
No offense, but this is a bad question. If you want tailored advice, you need to provide details about how the deck works and what it includes. There are no universal silver bullets to archetypes in EDH, and deck construction plays an enormous role in how you can effectively address certain threats.
May 18, 2015 2:20 p.m.