Hello everyone!

I am here to announce that some important changes are coming to this list.

I know that for a lot of people (even in cEDH), tier lists should not be a thing, because we can't gather enough datas about decks, so we end up ranking commanders based on preferences and personnal experiences mostly...

Things are going to change a lot. After seeing that many people here wanted some change, I reached for help on the cEDH subreddit and some people stood out to help. Some people that also wanted to help improving a great resource that could be way better.

Without further ado, I am here to introduce the new helpers, and new mods of the list: ShaperSavant, LabManiac_Sigi, tw0handt0uch, RattleAndHum (and of course me, thegigibeast)

We all have different visions on how we should approach cEDH, and we will all try our best to make this list a better resource.

This means there will be a lot of changes, from the formatting of the list, the division of the tiers, event a change in the philosophy of what we call tiers here!

For now, we are starting to Brainstorm about how we could make the list better. Stay tuned for some more updates!

I am willing to put in some effort to update the cEDH tier list if you need any more help.

I couldn't find any of the three Elspeth. At least you haven't finished the update! Have you?

Thank you for assembling this list and keeping on top of it!

toonew2two planeswalkers aren't legal in commander

As commanders*

"tier lists should not be a thing, because we can't gather enough datas(sic) about decks"

That's quite the understatement as the only data that exists is rather useless MTGO 1v1 tournament results, which in that meta has Zurgo Bellstriker as one of the highest ranked decks; but is listed here as tier 5. Tier listing by commander is rather pointless as there are multiple high power decks that never bother to cast their commander. The only viable breakdown of EDH tiers is by color(s); with U, U/X and U/X/Y decks filling out the top spots.

Many decks use their commanders as a backup, good examples being Yidris and Sidisi, so it's not irrelevant. Besides many lower tiers lend themselves to a more commander-centric game plan (after all its the only real reason to play less than 3 colors). Mostly only the top tier decks can fully function at a competitive level without touching their commander.

to whom it may concern: i seek to have Teeg's mid-range aggro army added to the deck lists, and encourage you to give gaddock teeg a higher tier once you revise your system and such

Just worked up a list, wondering exactly how this whole tier thing works, CEDH Tier 5 (Just a flash-hulk hermit druid deck) is the list, but the question is, if I can make a competitive deck with any commander, is every commander competitive? is it that a commander like Uril, the Miststalker is bad, because voltron is bad, and he looks voltron, even though I could make a wicked boonweaver list with him as the commander, that could whoops tons of Tier 2.5 lists?

And if the list is really a list based around commanders that not only have the colors required to make a good deck, yet are also supportive of that list, then why is Karona, the False God in Tier 5? Her ability supports an Oath of Druids lists, being able to stack the triggers on your upkeep in a way that you get your Oath of Druids trigger before you get your commander back. With no creatures in your library, Oath of Druids decks yourself. This doesn't win on the spot due to a lack of Narcomoeba and Fatestitcher and Bloodghast, also, this is on upkeep, so you must draw. Memory's Journey to shuffle a Yawgmoth's Will back into the deck, drawing it, and being able to win the game with storming off. In comparison to Hermit Druid combo, it is equally fast (You don't need Karona, the False God if any opponent has a creature, or if you find a Forbidden Orchard), and can be removed with less ease with it being an enchantment. I mean, it is less consistent (no Flash-Hulk or any other support creatures like dorks, and also no Worldly Tutor/Green Sun's Zenith effects), but that is okay, given its power.

So what is this list all about?

This is one of the main problems with the list in its current incarnation and something we intend to address.

That is great. I actually quite like seeing some of the competitive decklists linked here, and so use this for that, but otherwise it is a tad strange.

SynergyBuild: The original intent of this list was to look at the optimum build for a commander than actually incorporates that commadner into the build somewhat. So for a Sidisi, Brood Tyrant list for example, one ofhte main strategies the list can employ is to get Food Chain + Eternal Scourge and then use SBT as you main self mill piece. So while the deck does not revolve around her, sha adds much more value than if the deck was piloted by Tasigur, the Golden Fang for example due the the workings of that particular combo package.

Though I think we all hear what you're saying. Techincally you can cram a combo package in almost any deck and the lines become quite murky about the amount the commander adds to the deck. For some lists it is obvious but for others the Ambiguity level is high.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the list overhaul.

ArcanicFlame: Your list is missing quite a few staple pieces that cEDH decks would expect to see, stuff like Mox Diamond, Gaea's Cradle, Swords to Plowshares, Nature's Claim, Mana dorks, etc. I'm also surprised that te deck is not running a land destruction package.

Also, having ~25 categories for your deck breakdown makes it harder, not easier to review your list.

Can you add slimefoot to the list?

Yes, but I can make any deck with green have a food chain combo, and if it also has blue I can make it a hermit druid list.

Isochron combo can be run in any blue list, I can put lab man combo in any list with access to black and blue.

I can make every single commander with green, black, and blue competitive to some degree. White and green and any third color can be run for boonweaver. Green and black can be run for a protean hulk hermit druid list, the point is that if you have any of 18 out of the 32 combinations your deck can be competitive.

So I see it as two separate discussions. One is based on power of color(s) and the other is based on how commanders help with their individual strat. I always saw this as we know color pair X is powerful because of combo Y, which commander supports that itself vs ones that can just run the colors. Like you can plan on running labman in Grixis, but Marasil actually supports a specific build of that combo, and then where does that version of the combo fit?

Well, these discussions matter a lot.

Cromat may be a better commander than Mairsil, the Pretender at a Laboratory Maniac combo if the addition of green and white with support cards like Grand Abolisher, Silence, Abrupt Decay, Autumn's Veil, Nature's Claim, and Swords to Plowshares are good enough that you don't need a commander with minor benefits.

In that way, I think every 5 color commander should be Tier 2, as I can make any of them a decent list (or a hundred decent lists). No, they don't have to support a combo if their colors are powerful enough on their own.

On the other hand. I could run any random grixis commander, and build a list that though might be slightly worse than Kess, Dissident Mage, could make a very good deck using the shell of Grixis Twin. That deck might even be more powerful than Azami, Lady of Scrolls. Think about that. The fact that Karona, False God, with the list of Grixis Twin might be better than many tier 2 lists, yet is tier 5?

A Tier 5 list that is better than a tier 2 list, isn't a tier 5 list, yet at that point, the best decks should be the best decks, not the commanders at the helm of them. Think about stax decks, you can build a mono-red stax list that works (albeit not the best, but not bad or anything) and even use the commander of Zirilan of the Claw for a bit of removal if you cheat out one of the dragons that deals damage on ETB. That deck sure might whoop a Tier 3 list every time, with a mix of fast-paced stax, using Winter Orbs and Static Orbs, along with Sphere of Resistance and Thorn of Amethysts and some removal like Blasphemous Act, all the while setting up a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combo for the win. That deck doesn't sound bad, right? Well Zirilan of the Claw is tier 4, apparently they can't even compete against tier 1 lists, but against them, it can work, red has Gamble, Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast, and all of the colorless stax options, along with more card draw than Hokori, Dust Drinker has, no, it isn't as powerful a commander if you don't include color, but if the color has more power, than the deck can, and the commander's deck is what the commander's power is derived from.

I understand this list will be making changes in the near future, I am excited for that, but until then, I still think most commanders (like 80% or so of them) can be made into a list that is competitive (Tier 1-2).

To be honest, I could probably write up a playable list for most commanders. I am probably going to do that soon.

I think they try to focus on decks that at least use the commander somewhat, not just for the colors. Otherwise a tier list is a hopeless task.

So it seems the discrepancy to me is, does this list include the commander as it is intended to be used in a synergistic build-around deck... Or is that same commander only built for color identity, which in some cases may be considerably different power level.

What if the main tier list were to include commanders based on their synergies in the best way possible (meaning some 3-4-5c commanders would be lower than if they were built simply for color). And then the list also included placeholders for "generic" color identities. In other words, the best possible build ignoring any commander abilities, and literally only using them for color identity, would be grouped separately. So for example, each bant commander will have a separate listing for their build-around decks. And then "generic bant colors" would have a placeholder (maybe bant charm) on the tier list for the strength of colors alone, ignoring the commander.

Might be a terrible solution, just throwing it out there to see if others might be able to run with the idea.

I'm back. I'll see where this will go from here...

I've been trying to find a Boros Commander that can Synergize with a Stax/Hatebear deck. Right now, I'm running Archangel Avacyn  ^Flip, but it seems to be more of a placeholder than something I can use. If anyone can help with this, I'll see if I can bring Boros to a new level of competitive nature, and by that, I mean Tier 2.5 or whatever. For now, I need help searching for a new commander...

There are several ways to approach this and we havent decided what’s best. One option is that instead of just having the commander on the list, we list the deck shell. For example instead of Kess in Tier 1 you could have “Grixis Storm”, then in the description we would have example lists and notes about what commander is best. For decks that are NOT commander-centric, you could have an asterisk or note indicating that you could run this shell with any other commander in the colors, but it will be strictly worse i.e. Korona with a Grixis Storm 99 is going to be worse than Kess. Other decks/shells are commander centric and no other commanders could run the shell very effectively - see Gitrog Monster and General Tazri. Its tricky to figure out how to capture this info in a list format and have it be meaningful at a glance, which would be the goal. We are brainstorming currently.

All right. I guess I'll look up my options on gatherer for now. Good luck to all on the heated debate. :)

Kess is a powerful grixis twin list, Jeleva is grixis storm.

I honestly would argue against Karona, the False God being a worse commander for a twin list than Kess, Dissident Mage. Having access to better removal like Swords to Plowshares, Nature's Claim, etc. and Grand Abolisher, Abrupt Decay, Silence, Autumn's Veil, Life // Death and other such cards I think would be a useful addition.

To be honest, I think they would simply be different, neither worse, nor better.

*Karona, False God, not "the" False God. Whoops

Kess is used for both twin and storm. Jeleva mostly storm. I think 99% of people who play cedh would disagree than Karona is going to be better than Kess for a storm. Having a useful 8th card in the opener that is castable is very important. Also, 3-color enables a high-tide mana base that also facilitates Gush lines... this would be extremely difficult in 5 color. There are also no-good-choice Intuition lines that rely on Kess flahbacks.

No, I don't think it will be better. I said that.