After doing some play testing (in a 1v1 environment, sadly) I found Whisper, Blood Liturgist to be fairly powerful as a stax piece with Liliana's Specter or Mindslicer and Eternal Witness or Ophiomancer. The reason I say eternal witness is for situations where you have something like Smallpox in grave with two more black producing dorks or a piece of removal so the opp will, essentially, spend their turn doing nothing. In a 1v1 environment, the instant speed reanimation provided by whisper can cut the opponent off of top decking an answer for the lock you create, while also putting things into the grave that you want for the next turn, such as witness or rec sage.

Also, whats your take on Mana Web? obviously in conjunction with Winter Orb it can be very powerful, forcing the opponent into a position where they need to think "okay do i need to respond or do i want my next turn" while also acting as a psudo Arcane Laboratory against other midrange/control decks on its own, I'd love to hear your thoughts on both cards.

How are your extremely aggro matchups like krenko or arahbo? How would u deal withthe fast paced creature slamming.

Also how has grim flayer beenworking out for you? Ita so different from the rest of the deck

ok so i realized you only go online every now and then so let me shove all my questions in one post and hopefully you shallsee them one day XD ive been playing a variant similar tho this and to great success!!

firstly i have some card questions:

1. grim flayer: is he there fgor the extra beating or mainly for the Sylvan Library effect? also how oftendo u get delirium early. would you play it over a stax piece turn 2?

2. Midnight Reaper. am i missing something or is this a worse Grim Haruspex?

3. Necropotence iremmeber when ifirst saw this it was on the list, wha thas changed? did it not come out early enough or does the lifeloss really hurt.

4.Reanimate is amazing, but Animate Dead costs 2, what do u usually bring back? an edict brother?thats 5 mana tho.

1. Tangle Wire when would the proper time to bring it out be, before or after meren assuming we dont know the matchup

next question is some matchups.

, how do you dealwith very low to the ground aggro decks that spawn tokens like krenko or kari zev? what about the cat arahbo deck. theres alto of heavy aggro around here any tips? sometimes because of mass tokens stax pieces hurt me a ton.

thank you for any insight good sir and sorry for the triple post! i love the deck

Hi Vman!

First I want to stress that there is no universally "correct" stax deck - the best deck for my meta is likely TOTALLY different than the best deck for yours. My list may serve as a good starting point, but everyone will need to tune things individually for their own games!

At this point there is little to no creature aggro in my meta (which now consists of T1/T2 CEDH decks). I suspect this is true for many other CEDH metas, as creature aggro is generally not viable at the strongest of tables (it is possible to kill players with this strategy, but often difficult to actually win the game entirely). As a result, my answer to the question of, "How do you deal with low-to-the-ground token/aggro decks?" is simply, "I don't have to." Of course, some sweepers are still extremely useful for destroying generals, utility creatures, mana dorks, etc, so you'll see a few in my list (Toxic Deluge, Yahenni's Expertise)... BUT, I don't have to always be prepared to stop a token horde on T4... it's simply not an issue I need to deal with.

Of course, my experience is unique and totally different than many metas! If your opponents have more combat-focused decks, swap in tools to deal with them. Again, my deck is a good general starting point, but will need lots of tuning for any particular meta. You could consider repeatable sweepers like Pestilence/Crypt Rats, one-timers like Shrivel/Drown in Sorrow/Infest, more exotic workarounds like Living Death (these cards vary in competitive viability, but you get the picture)... what about Archfiend of Depravity? It's not a comp-viable card but if you are constantly facing down token swarm, it seems pretty darn good.

Note that if your opponents are more devoted to creature combat, that means they're LESS devoted to the things MY particular build is designed to stop - you may find that the slots for Trinisphere and Damping Sphere are better filled with creature removal; if that's true, then it's a change you should make!

Your more specific questions:

• Grim Flayer - He is basically a better Sensei's Divining Top in this deck. Being able to plow through your topdeck if you don't like your options is extremely useful when our goal is to stall out the game (Top is much worse - it costs you mana and you're stuck with what you see). The fact he beats and blocks well is nice, but he is played for the card sifting.
• Midnight Reaper - In some respects this is actually a BETTER Grim Haruspex - because it draws cards for itself when it dies (Grim Haruspex excludes itself). The life loss is unfortunate but the tradeoff for an extra card and more versatility (being OK with it dying) is the benefit here. However, remember that in more comp games, this isn't drawing us 30 cards, it's drawing like 2-4 (so the extra card off itself, bumping that number to 3-5, is actually a big deal). In more casual games with many more creatures on the battlefield and more draw triggers it's probably better to go with Haruspex to save yourself the life loss.
• Necropotence - I cut it as an experiment to see how the deck ran without it. Currently undecided on whether I will put it back. Obviously Necropotence is a card advantage powerhouse, but it's just awkward to actually play - the colors are rough to hit early on, and in an early hand, its timing often conflicts with the stax or interaction you need to be playing.
• Animate Dead and Regrowth - Currently testing these out to see if they help the deck's flexibility. Obviously, a lot of the recursion engine relies on Meren - and if there isn't an opening to play her or she dies, it can really create issues. This give us alternatives for making sure the effects in our graveyard remain accessible.
• Tangle Wire - Just play this ASAP. The earlier it hits, the harder it hits, and waiting until after Meren is almost surely too late. Remember, Tangle Wire is inherently asymmetric (taps the table for 4-3-2-1 and taps us for only 3-2-1-0 [or 2-1-0-0 once you consider you can tap Tangle Wire itself]). Additionally, we already play tons of mana dorks and mana rocks, so we are usually the least affected by the tap effect in the first place. If Tangle Wire hits too late, opponents have enough permanents to pay for it and can play around it - but a VERY early Tangle Wire (pre-Meren) can Time Walk the entire rest of the table 1-2 times, while we can often still play around it (due to so many dorks/rocks and asymmetric tap tax) and leap far ahead.

FireStorm4056 thank you so much for the in depth and very friendly insight. I am currently also running a low curve, heavy dork meren list very similar, and inspired by yours. this is deffinately the most unique and to me successful type of meren around! have a great day good sir.

looking foreward to any updates on the deck as i follow it =)

Hi! I've been working on a stax deck of my own using this list as a base, and everyone I know hates it! There's been a sort of power level arms race at my LGS, and I'm trying my best to keep things 'fair.' The decks arn't quite CEDH level yet save for a Selvala, Heart of the Wilds brostorm deck,Nekusar, the Mindrazer storm deck, and a tuned Derevi, Empyrial Tactician stax list. I have been experiencing some level of difficulty with Derevi and some Estrid, the Masked lists ramping faster than I can lay down my stax pieces/untapping and drawing cards through my stax pieces. Should I compensate with Pithing Needle and Sorcerous Spyglass to shut out their commanders? Usually at tables there are a lot of interactive decks and I quickly become the villain, so meren has a hard time sticking around. Should I add in ways to protect her like Cavern of Souls or Lightning Greaves, or should I just invest more into making my list more independent?

Heya FireStorm4056, ive been following this deck for a long time hoping that one day I could make my own version of the Minister of Pain and Living Plane combo in my EDH pod. After going to a recent GP, I was able to get some of the most expensive pieces and put my own version together. I would absolutely love it if you could have a look at Plane n' Pain and offer any advice.

Wondering what you think of Priest of Forgotten Gods for the deck. I'm contemplating trying it in mine.

FireStorm4056, are you still actively updating the deck? Has Autumn's Veil been given any consideration

FireStorm4056, would Bazaar of Baghdad be good in your build?