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Moorland Haunt Discussion
1 day ago
Too greedy with your colorless lands. If you are running three colors, and plan to drop a dork turn 1 (who is not a spirit by the way for Cavern of Souls), I don't see reliable color fixing. Maybe drop cards like Gavony Township and Moorland Haunt for more green sources. I would also go lighter on the basics. Overall, the colorless lands are cool, but with 2 colors in mana cost of some creatures and not playing red to soften Blood Moon on them, I would say not worth it.
1 month ago
Thanks! Read through that and a lot of great information. You are right, a lot has changed since I played heavily; which is one reason I'm going through this. I have not played a lot of modern decks; as almost all of my currently built decks are not modern legal. Although, I can say, I'm not a huge fan of the creature emphasis; one of my favorite decks all time was a 4th edition burn deck that had no creatures in it; just slinging spells. So I prefer decks with either few or weak creatures, but the difference is made up in spells.
I can see your argument on Rewind and was looking at it from a position of being neutral or in control already (later in the game); not looking at it as being behind. At 4 cmc, it would be a card I hope to draw late; which is why I reduced it down to 2. I don't like not having any "hard" counterspells though, since I already switched out to Mana Leak. So I think Condescend is the way to go. Can be cheap in early game (when opponent taps out, which should happen often against the more aggressive modern decks) and still can be a more costly hard counter late game; or at worst, a way to make them spend more than they would like.
I am considering Spell Queller as well for that slot; simply because at worst, it is another creature on the board.
Didn't know about Moorland Haunt and could see including that in this deck. Will give a bit more land, and can give me some graveyard utility. I like this. Thank you!
Yeah, I think we ended up in the same opinion on walls. The pure defensive nature of them is a downside; I'm going to be removing them, still trying to decide for what.
As for the card advantage; the idea was to keep as close to 1 for 1 early on, then once the Eidolon of Rhetoric is in play, start gaining card advantage through counterspells (I can play a card on my turn, my opponents spell on their turn is countered, so I gain 1 on battlefield/in play, opponent gains 0); ultimately, ending with the combo (I can play 1 per turn, opponent can play 0). I know Card Advantage is normally calculated including cards to hand; but the original concept was gain advantage by removing my opponents ability to effectively get cards from hand into play, essentially removing my opponents hand from the Card Advantage calculation. Maybe this is just too slow to setup in modern; but that is what I'm trying to do. Then, to support that, and protect the pieces required, we'd use battlefield control. Which reminded me of my old Modified Deep Freeze deck; which was similar in concept, counter and control.
Great argument on Ghostly Prison. Still not sure where I'll end up on it. I have it in sideboard now.
Already dropped Azor's Elocutors, because after consideration, agree with you wholeheartedly, unless building specifically for them, including them for the chance I have one in hand and my combo is up and running, seems silly. Replaced them with Cyclonic Rift which still synergizes with the combo well, but also has use for battlefield control if I draw it early.
Thanks again for your advice and thoughts. It is helping more than you can know. Being so out of the loop, this exercise is teaching me a lot. I won't be a Modern expert when done, but definitely putting me in a good place to start playing it and consider how to be better. I really am trying to get this deck to be Modern casual (not super competitive) so I can learn the format more and really get into building more competitive decks. This is just the start; and your (and cdkime's) input is already making me consider things a bit differently then I am used to. Thank you again. I'll keep working on this.
Also, going to check out that spirit deck you provided, because as you suggested, may offer ideas. Also going to look at some more modern U/W control decks.
1 month ago
I'm a mainstream sucker on this, but I don't think that the price-tag difference between Rewind and Cryptic Command is due to rarity - it's due to power level. Rewind forces you to keep 4 mana open for a counterspell, and that's quite a lot, especially if you aren't already in control, while cryptic has 4 different modes and can be used for so much other than countering. And if not a command (cryptic or ojutais), Spell Queller could be better on that slot, since it can could press opponent into defensive.
Have you seen the UW spirit deck? Maybe that is more like what you want, than UW control is? A randomly found variation of spirits: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/900743#paper. Even if you don't go with something much like this deck, there could be a few cards that would be good anyway, like Moorland Haunt.
Previous experience... tempest... hmmm... have you played against many modern decks? Not necessarily top-tier price-of-a-house decks, but, you know, the better class of budget decks? If you want to play control(ish) decks, you should have a plan against the more commonly seen strategies - what to do against tron, midrange, super-fast aggro, and so on. I looked at the decklist for deep freeze, and one of the changes since the time of tempest, is that more importance has been placed on creatures, and less on spells. I think I have a deck that actually does some of the same as deep freeze seems intended to do - play cheap creatures, disrupt opponent, and win by attacking - here you go UW Death and Taxes. Haven't played it for a while, and I would replace the ninjas with either Spell Queller or Reflector Mage. But really, deep freeze seems to want to be death and taxes, it's just missing a lot of the more important pieces (like Aether Vial).
I doubt that you'll get to play your jace-combo-lock very often, as it's remarkably hard to keep planeswalkers in play for 4 turns without them losing any loyalty counters, but for the card draw, he might be good.
Playing into removal is not a great idea, neither with walls, nor anything else. The walls were just a particular example of 1-for-1 trades, that would mostly be a losing game. Very few decks (you have to consider the opposition, right) just play their removal and move on. Some have removal/burn combined, like Searing Blaze, others play their spells more than once with Snapcaster Mage, others again make use of having cards in graveyard by having delirium-cards (Grim Flayer and Traverse the Ulvenwald), combo decks just ignore your blockers and makes walls into blank cardboard, and that all murks the result of having a wall removed with a removal spell. Also, in the current build you don't have card advantage enough to go into much 1-for-1-trading and winning from it. The problem with the walls were really that they were inflexible (they can only do 1 thing - block attackers, as long as there aren't too many attackers) and played into the plan of any deck they were supposed to be good against. The suggestion of using Ghostly Prison instead is actually pretty good, since you can play tablewipes without losing your defense.
I think you should drop the Azor's Elocutors since they don't really fit with the rest of the deck - if you don't build towards winning with it, it's not going to win anything anyway, and the slot is better spent on something else. Mana-wise, you could also lighten the load a bit, and you could add 2 Moorland Haunt to the deck. That way, your games can go longer and you still have a bunch of small attackers/chump blockers.
1 month ago
Love the deck but it looks really inconsistent, I could be wrong though. If I would take it for a spin I would make these adjustments;
- Tasigur, the Golden Fang -1
- Thought Scour -3
- Moorland Haunt -1
- Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite -1
- Grave Titan -1
- Gurmag Angler +1
- Griselbrand +1
- Search for Azcanta Flip +2
- Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip +1
- Ghost Quarter +1
- Liliana, the Last Hope +1
Thought Scour is one of the factor's that makes the deck to inconsistent and you can only do it once. You're not aggro so one for one's are not enough, value should bring you closer to your endgame. Search for Azcanta Flip or Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip are pure value generators. If you are really set on using Thought Scour, maybe Opt could be a great way to make it more consistent, it even draws an extra card but it would use up a lot of card slots though.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang should be good enough as a one of, while this opens another slot I would definitely add Liliana, the Last Hope she has good protection of her own and can help you with your self mill strategy while still gaining value of it. Her emblem wins games one it's own so she is an awesome threat in my opinion.
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite feels a bit underwhelming as a finisher, she has no evasion on her own and doesn't give you anything for a grindy game. Griselbrand seems to fit the requirements to be a potent late game threat.
The Moorland Haunt seems to slow and not mana-efficient in the long game. Ghost Quarter is a main-board answer to Tron and can be boarded out if it's not necessary, 24 seems a bit high with your curve, 23 should also be enough I think.
For your sideboard, I would definitely try to add Trinisphere. Combo decks run rampant at tournaments and this card does a great job at keeping them from going of. I would also run Supreme Verdict instead of Wrath of God. You also don't seem to have an answer against control with their playsets of Snapcaster Mages, Grixis Death Shadow decks and Dredge. So to wrap it up this is how I would fill in the sideboard:
- Surgical Extraction 2x
- Trinisphere 2x
- Supreme Verdict 1x
- Stubborn Denial 1x
- Detention Sphere 2x
- Stony Silence 3x
- Thoughtseize 2x
- Leyline of the Void 3x
These where just some suggestion I hope you can utilize them!
1 month ago
I'm a bit of a veteran player and deck builder, and basically you've just verified everything I've tested so far.
It seems there are 2 pique ways to build spirits, Jeskai and Bant, clearly because of the UW core being so already in-line with synergies. For a Red build I'm using Eidolon of the Great Revel and Lightning Bolt, some decks just fold to Eidolon already. And at least in my build that Kira, Great Glass-Spinner is likely a better SB card against midrange than MB. And Nebelgast Herald is GREAT! I've had to take it out a lot for control/combo matches but I've locked up Elves and Merfolk decks with it. <3 Definitely a favorite.
Another card I've been trying is Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit 1 has been really good, 2 always locks up my hand, but Eidolon has been my main "power" 2-cmc so maybe you could use her for the 2 drop you mentioned.
That's funny you mention not to play Geist, I've been having trouble getting it though (my other buddy that also has built my list, Tempo Ghosts (Tribal Spirits), went up to 3 instead of 2 and it always works for him, I can't understand how). But I'm going to be testing 1 Aven Mimeomancer to get the non-flying spirits I have, to fly.
Last thing: Moorland Haunt vs Mutavault I haven't tested Haunt entirely and Mutavault has been more a blocker than an aggressor like I thought it would be.
1 month ago
Sweet deck, I really like Call to the Kindred!
Since you only play two colors I think you can afford to play a couple colorless lands in your manabase:
Mutavault is good post-wrath and can give you more offensive as well as defensive options.
Moorland Haunt generates Spirits in grindy matchups.
3 months ago
Match Report 12/05/2017
Games 4 - 6
Matches 1 - 1 - 2
Match 1 - Win - Infect
This was a budget version without noble heirarchs and some other cards. I won with the flyers cuase he couldn't block.
Match 2 - Tie - UW Control
Guy was kinda new with the deck and his turns took some time. I was unwilling to surrender becuase I had a Moorland Haunt for a good stream of 3/3 spirits with the Favorable Winds he just had all the Cryptic Command
Match 3 - Loss - Counters Company
Infinite mana for both games. Shrug. I guess thats modern.
Match 4 - Loss - Scapeshift
Rob's version with the the Platinum Emperion is really hard for me to beat. That artifact just gives him so much time to put together the rest of the combo. I need ot remember to bring in the artifact destruction cards for him. That way I have a few more answers in the deck.
Unknown it was a long time ago.
3 months ago
Hi there guys.
Thank you all for your suggestions, it's much appreciated.
Madhava I have put 1x Creeping Tar Pit in the land, it's been good a few times. Some downside in the early game with tapped land but otherwise good I have thought about Kataki, War's Wage now there is less artifacts in the deck/sideb.
PeeBee I like your deck, I have a few spirit decks but not with cryptic. Looks pretty fun to play :D. Moorland Haunt is brilliant, especially against burn. I will be testing Moorland Haunt again, maybe with 2 this time. I also want to try 1 copy of Vault of the Archangel
I am usually against creature based decks so the Selfless Spirit 4x is mainly for the indestructible. I will try less and maybe more Collective Brutality / Remand or Kira, Kira, Great Glass-Spinner like you suggested.
I have thought about board wipes, maybe ill give it a try out.