[Primer] Helming the Host of Heaven *Update*
Commander / EDH
SCORE: 136 | 185 COMMENTS | 17284 VIEWS | IN 80 FOLDERS
Last one for sure, this time. Lol
Harsh Mercy as another board wipe?
May 4, 2022 9:29 p.m.
Wow! I didn't know about Harsh Mercy, and I love one-sided board wipes. I'll definitely find some place to put that one. I also had planned to put Vanquisher's Banner in only to forget it again, so thanks for reminding me! Serra the Benevolent is one I thought about too since this is the natural commander deck to put her in, but it also slipped my mind. And Finale of Glory could be good. I was originally going to run Entreat the Angels and Starnheim Unleashed, and this is a third effect for those though we only get the angels at twelve mana, which is a lot. Thanks foe some great suggestions!
May 4, 2022 10:20 p.m.
May 5, 2022 9:06 a.m.
AbyssalChampion says... #5
I love this! Currently building a Sephara, Sky's Blade deck myself and this is really cool to see! I love the explanation as it's really useful to have a thought process out there.
I know this might not be on theme, but might I suggest Drumbellower? It's a new card from the Kamigawa commander decks that is a really nice Seedborn Muse in white! Plus it has Flying! I've seen this card do a lot of work and for aggro strategies like Angel's tend to be I think the effect would work really well!
May 5, 2022 3:22 p.m.
Might I suggest changing your lands to snow-covered plains, this allows you to run Faceless Haven which combos with The Book of Exalted Deeds in a funny way. Also, lets your run Extraplanar Lens for big ramp value. The Ozolith I think should also be an auto include for this commander, just letting you recover from board wipes in a big way. Together Forever is another really powerful piece in this deck I think. Anyway, food for thought! Good list
May 5, 2022 3:40 p.m. Edited.
Drumbellower is a bit of a Seedborn Muse for sure, albeit for creatures only and in this case we don't have dorks to re-use for mana. Still, it could be an interesting engine in support of something, and white has a lot of tapping/untapping synergies. I'll have to ponder that! It's a cool card. It might be nice in some of my other aggro decks, and maybe here.
I forgot about Together Forever! I pulled a foil promo version of that out of a Battlebond prerelease kit, and had never found a use for it, but its perfect here! It can also protect Giada, which is an added plus. I've found in my limited play so far that the deck goldfishes past, but the card draw is slower than I'd like, and getting targeted and blow out is a constant concern. This card makes Sephara, Sky's Blade even better. The Ozolith is another great counters card that I forgot about. Extraplanar Lens is great, and definitely an auto-include once I can swing the price. It's be nice if Wizards actually reprinted it for a change. That Faceless Haven trick is neat! Stapled a Platinum Angel to a land for and make them play land destruction of they hope to beat you. That's a cool idea which I might do, especially since I'm playing the Book anyway.
Thanks again all for comments, suggestions, upvotes, and adds!
May 5, 2022 5:02 p.m.
Guerric I've found from playing my list that the card draw is surprisingly good for mono-white, Tome of Legends does a lot, as does Vanquisher's Banner. Shameless plug, but reference my list if you'd like. I've been happy with the card draw I have.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/a-font-with-the-same-name-is-already-installed/
May 5, 2022 5:36 p.m. Edited.
It's funny you mention that, because I play both those in other lists and totally forgot about them. KBK7101 reminded me about the latter, but I love Tome of Legends and it is a card people forget about that's really great. It also drops my card draw piece curve a bit. At 4cmc with Well of Lost Dreams, Sigarda's Splendor, and Cosmos Elixir are a lot. I also need to replace Welcoming Vampire because barring having Emeria Angel out I probably won't have enough weenies to make it worth it.
I'll definitely check out your list and upvote it too! There's no shame in wanting people to help us use the algorithms to help people who need it find our stuff, which is the main thing that we are doing! Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions!
May 5, 2022 5:53 p.m.
Fortheboys says... #10
Have you thought about adding Smuggler's Share? It looks like a super powerful way to be able to keep pace with greedy decks, especially in mono-white
May 6, 2022 11:45 a.m.
Fortheboys I have and will! It's a great card, I just think it's a bit overpriced at the moment. It's a must play in mono-white, but all the hype about it being the next Smothering Tithe is a bit overblown. All Share does is help you keep up with the degenerate stuff your green and blue opponents are doing, whereas Tithe puts a brutal tax on your draw for turn and every one afterwards. It's good, but $25 is high. I will get it soon though, and thanks for the suggestion!
May 6, 2022 12:04 p.m.
I must not have re-optimized mana well after the previous session because I only drew three lands over the course of the entire first game. That being said, I still won! Even with only three mana and Giada the curve allowed me to do most of what I wanted to do and put most of my angels out, so the curve and the deck's ability to put up a board state quickly even with limited resources is great. The all-star of the first game was Crashing Drawbridge, which, as I suspected, is great in this deck. I finished by playing out Serra Avenger and Angelic Curator (with plenty of counters) and then swinging with them and all of my other angels for lethal because of drawbridge. It helped me close out the game before my opponent could stabilize and hit me with a wipe, which would have set me way back due to my lack of lands. Another great combo was Righteous Valkyrie which is every bit the powerhouse you'd think it would be in this deck and Resplendent Angel, which ensured that tokens were bolstering my army and that my life total was more than padded.
The second game was much more evenly matched and could have gone either way, but I pulled that one out in the end as well. This would not have happened if Eerie Interlude hadn't saved my cast angels from Curse of the Swine, attesting again to the importance of board state protection in this deck. Quite critically, interlude was the only thing in my deck currently that would have saved me from that (other than Lapse of Certainty, so I was glad to have it! The absolute all-star in this game was Thorough Investigation. Wow! What a card! I thought it might be good, but the whole enter-the-dungeon mechanic seemed a bit cute to me and I was ensure if I would want to pay to sac clue tokens. The answer is yes! I amassed so many tokens from Investigation (as well as a couple from Angelic Sleuth when I blinked it with Interlude) that I knew I could refill my hand at any point, which I did! I'm going to put this card in all of my aggro decks- its a hidden treasure! Angelic Skirmisher is also a must-run in the deck. Everyone plays Lyra Dawnbringer but some don't play this card, which I feel like is better. While the life-link aura is the thing in this deck and two copies of it was great, I definitely experienced the utility of the first strike aura when I wanted to swing with Valkyrie Harbinger but was afraid to lose it to a large flying blocker. First strike made it so that he didn't want to block! Vigilance is also great, and Thraben Watcher was already making sure I wasn't in danger on the crack back in this matchup, but Skirmisher could situationally help with that as well. I finished it out by clearing away all of his blockers (including some absurdly large creatures) with Winds of Abandon. He put 13 lands onto the battlefield, but died to my Angelic Armada.
In both of these games, as with in the previous ones I've reported on, the life gain was real and powerful! I finished the second game with 98 life and the first one with life somewhere in the 70s, so this deck works amazingly well that way. I also played a turn one Soul Warden the first game and was quite thankful for it. I wasn't totally sure about the soul sisters in this deck, but I think I am glad for them. Another huge success in several games so far are the Angelic Accord effects. Having four of them makes it a consistent subtheme, and even a couple of free giant angel tokens goes a long way to killing opponents. I think my issues with card draw aren't that I don't have draw or that it doesn't work, just that this deck is hungry for more of it, which I will address in the first revision coming soon. I've already ordered some more cards based in part on suggestions I've received here from some of you, so thanks for those! I will post the revisions once they are made and my reasoning for them. I'll also update the primer and the acknowledgements to offer credit where credit is due!
May 6, 2022 5:44 p.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #13
First thing first, this is a very impressive list.
When reading the title, I imagined you'd be playing Helm of the Host. While it might be pretty expensive both mana- and money-wise, the synergy with Giada is pretty cool. Getting an additional copy of Giada each turn results in both constant ramp and a constant output of new enormous flyers. The way I understand Giada's replacement effect, it stacks with multiple instances of it. Seems legit.
May 7, 2022 9:45 a.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi I'm glad you caught that because the play on words was definitely on my mind, though it occurred almost by accident! Helm would be good and definitely fits with the title, so maybe I should play it for that reason alone! The main reason I haven't is just because its a mana hog to get there without Godo putting it on the battlefield for free. Still, I will consider it! Not everything in a fun deck needs to perfectly synergize, and the doubled counters would be insane.
May 7, 2022 9:51 a.m.
I've ordered some cards and pulled a few from my binder which I may add to the deck, but while they are enroute I thought I'd telegraph my thoughts on them so that some of you can weigh in with your thoughts.
1) Draw Lands- War Room and Bonders' Enclave While I don't like using four mana (including the land itself) to draw a card, I'll be happy to in a pinch or when the mana is free. These are not primary draw, but they will add options and I think get use, and since they don't come into play tapped that's good.
2) Seraph Sanctuary Missed this one in my first build, but it's obviously great here.
3) Emergence Zone This is a hidden gem most people forget about. A huge piece of aggro is the element of surprise, and this allows us to make bigger plays and functionally double mana by playing on our opponent's end step before our turn. It's great.
4) Sanctuary Warden This is another painfully obvious choice that I missed on the first round (I should have read the card more closely). It's an angel draw engine in Giada that leverages our Giada counters rather than the helpful shield counters it comes with. Nice.
5) Tome of Legends This is a favorite draw piece for me in two of my other decks, so I was thankful that someone reminded me of it. It also fits our low curve nicely.
6) Vanquisher's Banner This card does not fit our draw curve as nicely, but is broken and probably the second best draw engine for this deck.
7) Eye of Vecna I saw this in a few other lists and it seems great. Why not pay a small amount of the life we are gratuitously gaining for a card each turn? For 2 mana, and we get a card immediately when we play it! The only downside is that Angel of Jubilation shuts it down, but that is a narrow case.
8) Mask of Memory I saw this on other lists as well and it seems like a good choice. We get to look at two cards, end up one, and discard what we need least. There could also be lines of play where we discard a good card like Gisela, the Broken Blade  Meld and return her with Bruna, the Fading Light  Meld, so there's that too.
9) Together Forever Premium protection from both board wipes and targeted removal. And for an efficient cost. What's not to like?
May 7, 2022 11:28 a.m.
Nice list, Giada, Font of Hope is definitely a powerful commander.
So I totally understand if you're excluding her due to CMC, but Avacyn, Angel of Hope is obviously a thematic fit.
Other than that would you consider something like Faith's Reward? It's a niche piece, but you're very vulnerable to boardwipes and something like that can be a huge save.
May 8, 2022 2:44 p.m.
Hi Massacar! I'm not excluding her, more of just I haven't wanted to foot out the real world $ quite yet (I own all my decks in paper). That being said, she does belong and will join the tribe!
May 8, 2022 2:51 p.m.
Having articulated my thinking on cards I may soon add, I'll add some of my candidates for cuts for everyone's input.
1) Welcoming Vampire Though I love her, barring Emeria Angel being out she probably won't be a reliable draw engine.
2) Cosmos Elixir Though this card is great, synergizes well, and I have a gorgeous foil copy if it, it costs 4 mana and is pretty conditional in how it draws cards. Its kind of between this and Sigarda's Splendor, and splendor is far better and also more on theme.
3) Plains- It might be risky to cut another land, but with enhanced draw and my curve I think I might be able to get away with it. I do in my Mardu Humans deck and I think this will perform similarly.
4) Disenchant My removal is pretty robust in this deck, so I think I can get away with cutting the worst one.
5) Mirror Entity This might just be that I have never like this card, so this might be a bad idea. Let me know what you think!
6) Angelic Page This card isn't great, but it curves out well and has helped me drop multiple angels early. It might also be an easy turn three play with any of my other 2 cmc support pieces. It's never been good on its own, but I'm leaning towards keeping it.
7) Emeria Angel 4 drop angels are especially good in this deck (since we can always play them turn 3). I just wonder if we need a bird generator or not.
8) Cycling lands- I've decided in my brief testing that I don't like these much, but it might keep Secluded Steppe due to its efficiency. Coming in tapped is pretty bad in this deck, so we need a good justification for that.
May 8, 2022 6:25 p.m.
I have also pondered maybe cutting Angel of Finality. Once again this would be cutting a four drop and also a graveyard removal piece, but I could pop Scavenger Grounds into the mana base to make up for that. Just a thought. I'm definitely curious about people's opinions on cuts.
May 8, 2022 8:11 p.m.
king-saproling says... #20
Thoughts on these? Metallic Mimic, Universal Automaton, Impostor of the Sixth Pride, Urza's Incubator, Slate of Ancestry, Cauldron of Souls, Adarkar Valkyrie, Adaptive Automaton, Icon of Ancestry, Coat of Arms
May 9, 2022 1:31 p.m.
Hi king-saproling! Thanks for the suggestions! I guess I'll give some thoughts in as orderly a way as I can.
1) Coat of Arms I love this card and play it in a couple of my decks. My thoughts are that, though a great tribal card, it caters more to pumping weenies. In this case Giada pumps our weenies just fine, and the card is a bit redundant. At 5 mana in mono-white its also a bit high for this deck, but it is a great card and I could see maybe someone having success with it.
2) Icon of Ancestry I really like this card on release, but didn't enjoy it too much in other decks in commander (it was a decent Brawl card when that was a thing). 3 mana is a lot to look for a card that you might never draw, and it can be unsatisfying to play it. The anthem could be good in other context, but this deck doesn't really need it.
3) Adaptive Automaton and other changelings. My general thought on these is that I'd rather just play real angels. While they changelings get counters, they don't fly, and flying makes them way more threatening. If there were a shortage of angels I'd consider putting them in, but I'd rather add Angelic Curator than Impostor of the Sixth Pride. That being said, Giada is weenie angels, and I could see a case for Universal Automaton and Metallic Mimic based on cmc value alone. I'm not sure I could fit them in here, but they are the better options of this group!
4) Slate of Ancestry is a really interesting draw option. Its a bit mana intensive to get going, but it could provide the burst draw this deck needs more of. I'll definitely consider it!
5) Urza's Incubator is a great card, there's no doubt about it. I wouldn't question it in anyone's list! As for me, three of my ramp cards discount creatures, and Giada can only ramp angels, so I need more ramp that can put lands in play or at least help me cast non-creature, non-white stuff. If I already had this in my binder and it wasn't $50 in real world money (I own all my decks in paper), I might consider it. But I think my ramp is working now. That being said, by all means play it because its great!
6) Cauldron of Souls This is good protection from sweepers, and the counters are effectively negated. Nice! I'll definitely consider it.
7) Adarkar Valkyrie This is a good effect, but Cauldron does it better, and Twilight Shepherd is probably a better option. That being said, its a halfway decent angel but I probably won't do it myself.
May 9, 2022 3:25 p.m.
king-saproling says... #22
Hey Guerric that all makes sense. Adarkar Valkyrie is one of the few white cards that can steal opponents' creatures which is pretty cool. Not sure if that makes it a better fit for your list but it's definitely a fun curveball in monowhite
May 9, 2022 3:48 p.m.
king-saproling Interesting! I hadn't paid attention to that. I'll think about it! Playing a white deck like a blue deck I guess!
May 9, 2022 3:52 p.m.
1) Cosmos Elixir OUT Vanquisher's Banner IN
Elixir works in this deck but is my worst draw piece in that it only gives life if I don't draw, I have to have over 40 life to draw, it costs 4 colorless mana to cast, and it at most can net me one card per turn. The all star draw pieces so far are those that allow burst draw such as Well of Lost Dreams and Thorough Investigation. Banner allows for this burst draw as every angel replaces itself with a new card, and tokens net us free cards. Its one mana higher but the upside makes it a far superior card. The anthem is just gravy really.
2) Disenchant OUT Tome of Legends IN
I think there is sufficient removal in this deck, so I can afford to cut my worst piece. This deck needs more draw and better draw, so adding a card that can consistently net me an extra card most turns is great.
3) Welcoming Vampire OUT Eye of Vecna IN
Even though many of my angels are weenies they don't ETB that way. As such, vampire is subpar card draw here, whereas normally it is premium for white. Eye may only get me one extra card per turn but it is cheap, fairly unconditional, and I'll have plenty of life to power it. The only downside is that Angel of Jubilation shuts it down, but I think that in most cases I'll be glad to have the option to draw.
4) Mirror Entity OUT Sanctuary Warden IN
I can't believe I missed Warden on the first round. It is unlimited draw in this deck stapled to an angel which has quite a bit of built in protection due to the shield counters (which we won't have to use to power it thanks to Giada). I'll confess I've never liked Entity, though in this deck it has some additional upsides and additional downsides. As for upsides, the counters help it a lot. One reason I feel like Entity is weak normally is that it often dies to ping effects if you don't reserve mana to pump it. I've seen this over and over again over the years, but the counters Giada gives it here mean we can rest easy. Another advantage is that it is an angel here, so the deck supports it well. A disadvantage, however, is that it is less useful and necessary. It is most powerful when it turns 1/1 tokens into 4/4 threats and provides a massive swing. It does little in this deck unless we pump at least 5 mana into it, and even then the improvement is marginal. A second disadvantage is it doesn't fly. Even an Angelic Page is a huge threat in this deck that can go over a defensive line, whereas Entity can be chump blocked easily. Thirdly, it can't enabled combos in this deck because of Giada. We are playing Karmic Guide, so a thought might be to add Reveillark and enable the combo so we can gain infinite life and do other recurison shenanigans. The problem is that this approach relies on paying zero into Entity to kill the board, but the board won't die to counters, so Giada shuts the combo off. Overall I think this isn't worth it, I sentiment I feel about pretty much all of the non-flying changeling cards that we might think would be good to put in.
5) Plains OUT Together Forever IN
I think with enhanced card draw of the update and Giada's ramp ability I can afford to go down to 35 lands, something I have done successfully in other low-to-the-ground aggro decks. Together Forever is premium protection here that also allows Giada to give herself some protection. What I especially like about this card is that it can serve as protection from both targeted removal and board wipes. The deck has done well so far, but well-played protection is key, and this is one of the most flexible pieces there is.
6) Archaeomancer's Map OUT Mask of Memory IN
This is likely to be my most controversial change as Map is a good card that fetches some lands and can ramp over the course of the game, provided we have the lands in hand. It may be bad! That being said, ramp is less of a problem here because of Giada and because of our curve. Map is bad turn three play where we sometimes want to ramp, because it leaves us often having to discard on our end step. I think with our curve and Giada what is important is simply to draw into our land drops, and extra ramp is gravy. That means more draw is better than more ramp, and between Map and the swords/dagger I think the latter are better land fetching/ramp pieces in a deck with evasive creatures. Mask is great because we can see two cards every turn and discard whatever is least relevant in our hand. It can also go down on turn three and be immediately attached to Giada and used right away to get things going.
7) Angel of Finality OUT Angelic Curator IN
Finality isn't great here, as the body doesn't matter too much and cmc is less conducive to a go-wide and high theme than a 2-drop. I think more turn 2 angels has some advantage here, and this is the best of the bunch (other options would be changelings that don't fly). 2-drop angels allow us to play an angel and a support piece like Tome of Legends on turn three, or even play two angels. Four drops can also be good turn three if they are high impact, which Finality is not. It was only in to be an anti-graveyard piece, but is just bad when there are no serious graveyard threats. As such, I'll address that by putting Scavenger Grounds into the mana base and drop the curve to a better place.
8) Mana Base Changes- I'm going to cut two of three cycling lands as this deck really doesn't want lands coming into play tapped, especially early in the game, and the cycling option just isn't worth it. I'll keep Secluded Steppe for now on account if its efficiency, but the others are gone. They'll be replaced with War Room and Bonders' Enclave, which tap for colorless but come into play untapped and give us additional card draw options that we need. Since we are only in one color we can afford more colorless lands than other decks, but we want as many to come untapped as possible due to the fact that we always have stuff to do early. I'll also add Seraph Sanctuary for more life gain and Scavenger Grounds to deal with problematic graveyards.
Those are the proposed changes. Let me know what you think!
May 10, 2022 9:05 a.m.
Cyb3rguerrill0 says... #25
Hi Guerric you already have a lot of suggestions, but maybe you would like to also add Court of Grace and Entreat the Angels to your maybeboard?
KBK7101 says... #1
Incredibly well written as always, my friend! Giada is definitely a boon to angel decks and mono-white decks alike. She's definitely going into my Rule 0 Serra deck for sure!
The only suggestions I have are maybe Serra the Benevolent for her tokens and buffs, Finale of Glory (may be a win more card, though) and Ajani's Welcome as a third "soul-sister". Oh! And possibly Vanquisher's Banner?
May 4, 2022 9:17 p.m.