Going all in with kiora turbofog
Modern Deck Help forum
Posted on Nov. 16, 2019, 1:45 p.m. by Icbrgr
Kiora, the Crashing Wave is kinda a pet card that I've always wanted to build around and whenever I do I seem to always end up with a deck that feels more like a deck that happens to have her in it rather than a deck truly built around her... I've messed with Quest for Ula's Temple and a few gimmicky simic counter decks and they just didn't quite feel right.
I'm think really leaning towards building a turbofog brew with proliferate spells to get the -5 emblem accompanied by a Whelming Wave for a win condition. (Avoiding the typical mill strategy)
Does anyone have any thoughts on good sideboard options for simic colors to assist with noncombat oriented/combo decks?... so far Negate , Dispel and Beast Within seem to be the main things that speak to me.
Kiora: Cruelty Without End
Modern
SCORE: 1 | 10 COMMENTS | 314 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
Magnanimous says... #4
I think those cards should be more than enough. I may be wrong but I think blue has all the colors to deal with noncreature decks / combo. The only other things I would suggest are Sorcerous Spyglass for planeswalkers and Relic of Progenitus for graveyard decks.
I can't see your decklist, but I would be very scared of facing a creature deck that builds up a massive board and maybe has a few disruptive cards winning because I didn't draw a fog or they disrupted me at the right moment. So, maybe something like AEtherize or Kiora-like effects like Jace, Telepath Unbound 's + ability
November 18, 2019 10:10 a.m.
@Magnanimous great call with Sorcerous Spyglass for planeswalkers and Relic of Progenitus for graveyard decks... ill tinker with my list a bit more.
facing a creature deck that builds up a massive board will result in them winning if I dont draw a fog/wipe or they disrupted me at the right moment.... even if I have Isochron Scepter and Fog on it Abrupt Decay will ruin my day.... its just the nature of turbofog and why it will never be a top tier deck...let alone how bolt-bait/fragile kiora herself is as a Wincon but alas I am trying to make it the best I can while stilll staying true to my intent... BREWING WITH KIORA!
November 18, 2019 4:27 p.m.
abbatromebone says... #6
- Turbo fog loses to counter magic a lot so preventing that is a good sideboard card like Veil of Summer
- Spore Frog is an amazing card especially when you can reanimate it every turn. It creates a combat damage lock which is super powerful against a lot of decks. This can be done with Kenrith, the Returned King but requires black, or Genesis which must be in your graveyard.
November 19, 2019 10:58 p.m.
@abbatromebone I agree... maybe Veil of Summer mist be the "new" or "better" option for Turbofog over Dispel / Negate ...can also slap down Thoughtseize so i like that a lot... or perhaps just in the SB along with the others depending on the matchup... ill look into it for sure.
currently this is what my sideboard is shaping up to be
4x Beast Within For addressing resolved permantants that just need to go... i figure the 3/3 token should be completly negated in turbofog so that should be golden removal in theory.
2x Mindbreak Trap I think could be good to just slow down anyone with lots of cantrips or stormy decks.
3x Negate : straight up noncreature counterspell.
2x Pithing Needle resolved planswalkers primarily.
2x Torpor Orb for keeping my Whelming Wave useable/useful against people getting advantage with ETB value.
2x Witchbane Orb Budget Leyline of Sanctity (which honestly is a lot more affordable than it was a few years ago... wow)... try to stave off burn/hand disruption.
May be Kiora, Master of the Depths could also help out with Genesis and Spore Frog ?... and if i splashed white i can see the possibility of integrating Kami of False Hope too...I currently dont think this is the way i wanna go because i really wanna try to stay simic for budget reasons (mostly mana base issues); but definitely an idea to be explored.... ill work up a theoretical "fog re-animator style" decklist and see where the price tag would end up.
November 20, 2019 10:38 a.m.
Magnanimous says... #8
@lebrgr I really don't like Mindbreak Trap as a sideboard card unless you're coming up against a lot of genuine storm decks that win with Grapeshot or similar. In decks with lots of cantrips, BW Control for example, they might have a turn that goes cantrip planeswalker removal spell and you can counter the removal spell. Just as likely is a turn that goes something like cantrip to find sorcery speed play pass to you and then play removal spell and cantrip 2, none of which you can do anything about. Even against something like Arclight Phoenix , it only counters the last spell your opponent cast and doesn't deal with the triggers.
Some possible replacements: Search for Azcanta Flip swapping with fogs against control, Damping Sphere against combo, Grafdigger's Cage against graveyard.
November 20, 2019 1:31 p.m.
@Magnanimous I think that's a really good catch/explanation for Mindbreak Trap ... I really thought that was gonna be a lot more handy to have but I guess it is much more narrow than I thought.... my current decklist has a lot of cantrips itself and in my play-testing I very rarely cast 3 spells in a row.
Ill look into Search for Azcanta Flip wapping with fogs against control, Damping Sphere against combo, Grafdigger's Cage against graveyard.... see what works out best. Thanks!
November 20, 2019 2:16 p.m.
abbatromebone says... #10
- When you build a SB it is used to solve probelms your deck struggles with. Mindbreak Trap solves against storm and thats about it. If you are fighting a lot of storm go ahead itll help when you draw it. Otherwise dont. Damping Sphere is great in that match up and good in other match ups so it is a better SB.
- Beast Within is interesting. What cards are problems? It most likely isnt a creature beacuse you are fog. So that leaves artifacts, enchantments, and lands. You are in green so there are 1 and 2 mana cards that solve the first two. Like Nature's Claim and Force of Vigor
- needle is a good choice
- Torpor Orb is not that great of a card to SB. There are better solutions in budget. ETBs are not that powerful in my opinon. Playing that weakens your deck. Graveyard decks are very common and powerful, and consistent. Play Tormod's Crypt
- Negate is a great card for stopping counter magic on your fog, I would almost prefer Dispell or Swan Song It leaves more mana open for cards like fog.
November 21, 2019 11:50 a.m.
@abbatromebone Your very first sentence kinda says it all for me right now... I'm supposed to be "Turbofog" and the aggro matchup is supposed to be easy/what my deck is made to beat and currently Im playtesting against Naya Zoo (small zoo with Kird Ape / Loam Lion / Wild Nacatl & Rancor ) and it's far from an easy win...the deck gets me under 8 life by T4 pretty consistently and as soon I "stabilize" the combat damage they go upstairs with Lightning Bolt /similar and close out the game before i can usually..... grrrrrrr!
I need to firm up my deck in general I think and then revisit this sideboard talk..... really starting to see the importance of Negate / Dispel ... starting to think maybe that should just be mainboarded.
November 21, 2019 4:39 p.m.
abbatromebone says... #12
- So I dont know what you are playing against, but zoo isnt something thats very "meta" but if that your play group then build to it. The main probelm with your deck is the build.
- For fog effects you have: a total of 8. One of which is CMC 3+ you should run more. Turbo Karn This is my (very memey) version of Turbo fog. Which is running effectively 12 fogs. Which are a lower CMC as well.
- Proliferate isn't that amazing in your deck you need to stall to get your 4 of planeswalker (which might be to many). Also getting to that win condition is fairly difficult. A great turbofog deck can stall forever and seal up a game.
- I will say for deck building a CMC 4 means you win the game basically. CMC 5 is basically unheard of. Silent Arbiter is CMC 4 but doesnt exactly win you the game I would remove it. Same with Steady Progress Gilder Bairn Karn's Bastion Doubling Season and Tezzeret's Gambit
- If you are going to have creatures you want cards like Wall of Blossoms Drawing cards means you have more fogs, can play lands on time, and you are digging for your win condition.
- Remand stalls out a spell for a turn, and the if you cant answer it gets cast, and doesnt solve the problem. There aren't many decks i recommend this card in, let alone 4 of. There are better counterspells at the same budget.
November 21, 2019 5:02 p.m.
antacidbrn says... #13
First of all, I want to say I love the on point theme! The best magic decks for me are the one'e that tell a story, and not just a pile of good cards.
My fear is that this deck has a lot of moving parts to resolve Kiora. I wish she was a 3 mana planeswalker like Oko, because then I know for sure it can be done. Two cards that have not been suggested but are Modern speed and may help with removal are:
-
Echoing Truth , which bounces any Permanent back to hand for a tempo win and also has added bonus of sweeping tokens when you face Goblins, Lingering Souls and/or Young Pyromancers.
-
Rapid Hybridization , a great removal spell which, even though they get a 3/3, will be swept away in the Whelming Wave or just eaten by your bigger sea monster token. Similar to Beast Within .
Hope these suggestions help amd keep the dream alive.
November 30, 2019 11:16 a.m.
Thanks antacidbrn! I think i particularly like the idea of Echoing Truth because it can catch duplicate creatures and tokens as well as interaction with other problematic permanants... I dig it ty!
lagotripha says... #2
Kiora's -1, Mystic Sanctuary , an extra turn spell, and something that bounces lands - say Mina and Denn, Wildborn or Trade Routes . Add in some Fires of Invention , Growth Spiral , etc and you've got a hell of a taking turns list. Even if the goal is just to play all the cards in your hand instead of going infinite, its a hell of an option.
November 16, 2019 4:18 p.m.