lagotripha Playtwister

Ouroboros_47 says... #1

Hey so I changed up the BG Demon deck quite a bit to have a stronger focus on sacrificing, and it somehow turned into a semi token demon deck with things like Skirsdag High Priest and Rite of Belzenlok. It really feels like a completely different deck now. Its here B/G Demon Midrange. There's still that focus on demons of course, but please let me know what you think. Has it improved? Gotten worse? I feel as though I managed to pick cards that work well together (or better than previously) as you said. Thanks again for the help.

November 10, 2018 10:07 p.m.

Ouroboros_47 says... #2

Hi, I'm not sure if you remember but about a month ago you commented on my first deck Red Black Gods, and since then I have made a number of decks (online) trying to build something that might be good. Well, I think I've finally made something I'm a little proud of and was hoping you could give your opinion on it. $50 B/G Demon Midrange is the deck. I wanted to build a cheap, decent demon deck without something like 16 Shadowborn Apostle. If you have the time please give it a look. Thanks.

November 9, 2018 1:32 a.m.

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Said on B/G Demon Midrange...


I like this list a lot better. Skirsdag High Priest is a little slow- I'd look for a card with more immediate board impact (the tap in the cost is a major drawback, as well as the lack of ability to self-proc morbid. It can work, but three cards and 3 mana is a lot to pay for a 5/5).

From here on its playtesting and feeling out the local meta.

I'd look at testing cards like Costly Plunder, Demonic Taskmaster, Evolutionary Leap, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Spawning Pit etc. After you've played a few matches you'll have a better idea what the deck feels like and where you should be looking to make fixes.

November 11, 2018 7:59 a.m.

Said on B/G Demon Midrange...


I don't mind. Bloodsoaked is in a weird spot- everyone has maindeck graveyard hate thanks to dredge, so he tends to just end up not producing value at all. In strategies that want you to put lots of cards in the graveyard, there are stronger cards, so trying to 'purely' game the graveyard as a card advantage engine with him is a risk. This doesn't shut down sacrifice strategies, not exactly, but makes cards with 'on death' or etb effects to create value where you want to look right now.

In six months time it might be completely different, but with red decks running Arclight Phoenix, dredge dredging, snapcaster snapping, every G/x list running scooze, and tron maindecking relic, its not in a good spot.

November 10, 2018 9:26 a.m.

Said on B/G Demon Midrange...


This is a good start. I feel like you are starting to look at cards the right way- assessing how to balance their disruptiveness and value, but the deck still feels a little unfocussed.

Lets look at a core concept in magic- card advantage- and build to that.

There are enablers; cards that don't do things on their own (lands, ramp spells, combo pieces, most 1/1s, etc). Proactive cards that are very good when your play them on their own (kitchen finks type stuff, planeswalkers) Reactive cards that are good at trading 1-for-1 with proactive cards (mana leak, fatal push), Card advantage spells (things that mean you effectively have more cards played, even if they don't always read 'draw a card'.)

If you have more relavant answers than your opponent has proactive cards, then they'll mostly find it difficult to hit you. If you have more playable proactive cards than your opponent you'll probably be able to race them. If you have cards that slot into multiple categories in useful ways, you have virtual card advantage, and can pick the appropriate approach for the particular matchup. These are the core concepts that you need to build midrange.

Lets look at what your deck wants to do. A build around Demonlord of Ashmouth and Demon of Catastrophes, with enablers in the form of small creatures and ramp spells, and a few spot answers with light card advantage tools to clear the way. You're prepared to give up cards to demonlord of ashmouth or demon of catastrophies to have a big threat hitting your opponent. This is a really good start that the rest of your deck should build to support. A big threat that goes over aggro and fights through answers.

So general principals- you want enough card advantage to offset your enablers, or to make those enablers useful in other ways. You want enablers that also help you race down other decks with big flying demons. And you want tools to protect those demons.

Budget lists can't afford the 'universally good' stuff, like Collective Brutality or Cryptic Command, so you need to look at larger groups of teir 2 cards with good synergy and large print runs, preferably with deckbuilding restrictions that cut the price further. So lets cover some general options, explain the why, and then leave you to find things to fill out the list.

You want things that make small creatures and make these big things easier to cast. Llanowar Elves(price listing on this is busted) and Elves of Deep Shadow will let you cut the land count some- and they'll let you slam a big demon earlier whilst providing a body to sacrifice. Turn 1 extra mana is strong enough for people to spend their lightning bolt on it- and thats one more thing not pointed at the threats.

While Sylvan Caryatid is a great card, spending an extra mana to 'blank' a removal spell with hexproof is less relevant when your big stuff doesn't also blank removal, and likely isn't worth the extra mana (its great when your threats are stuff like enchantments or combos which are hard to disrupt).

Scavenging Ooze should be maindeck- its a graveyard meta, and its a decent body that likes you sacrificing creatures, lifegain is relevant, and even against decks that play no creatures it hits their snapcaster targets. Its both a threat and an answer. Cards that give you lots of options are good.

Cards that let you play with +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters are good in sacrifice lists- much like Gavony Township makes Kitchen Finks nigh-unkillable, Cauldron Haze and cards like Exemplar of Strength or Hapatra's Mark/Heartmender/Nest of Scarabs with Young Wolf and Safehold Elite or Black Sun's Zenith can really put in work. You just need to be sure to pick cards that all work well together. While individually they are worse than high value cards, as a group they can outperform- and most importantly, choose them to be versatile.

A card that gives an aggressive and defensive option is perfect for midrange. When building the spine of your deck, look for groups like this to fill it out. Having interseting choices makes the game fun.

Most of all, playtest, and have fun playing. Because thats how you get a top-notch deck. I'd take a look at Rite of Belzenlok decks in standard right now, they showcase a lot of the tools you'll be looking for, and its a good card for the archetype (even if its a little slow).

November 9, 2018 6:26 a.m.

Said on Trading Post Tron...


So a sort of Scarecrone tron build?

I feel like diving more into tools for a grindy matchup where post will shine might be best if you want that route. Running black for things like Distended Mindbender and more value oriented midrange creatures like Filigree Familiar/Solemn Simulacrum might perform well.

November 8, 2018 9:09 a.m.


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