[[Primer]] - Daretti - Degenerate Artifacts

Commander / EDH Guerte

SCORE: 826 | 523 COMMENTS | 162067 VIEWS | IN 281 FOLDERS


Comment Cleanup and Primer Update —April 8, 2016

Added a few new sections to the Primer, and made it look a little bit better. At least I think?

Let me know if there is anything you feel like I should add.

abzanforever says... #1

I'm happy that you included some of my Suggestions :) but I wouldn't cut Thran Dynamo. If you want to cut a Mana rock, then you can cut Hedron Archive instead of Thran Dynamo

March 9, 2016 10:20 a.m.

Guerte says... #2

abzanforever: The thing about Thran Dynamo vs Hedron Archive is that even tho Dynamo produces that extra mana, Archive is more versatile since it can draw you cards.

Currently, I'm working with two flex spots: Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer. I'm trying out Lotus Bloom in place of Slobad right now, but I am open to having Thran Dynamo take its place.

I am still on the fence about Recoup vs Mizzix's Mastery. The way it is standing for me as of right now I am most likely going to keep Recoup just for the simple fact I can discard it and still cast it, albeit for a higher cost.

March 9, 2016 10:46 a.m. Edited.

abzanforever says... #3

I know that you can use Hedron Archive for carddraw too, but most time I wouldn't trade my two mana rock with two cards. I use it as an act of despairation if I'm losing the game, or just for fun if I'm winning. Thran Dynamo is just such a good mana rock, that I won't ever think about cutting it. Cutting Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer for Thran Dynamo seems to be good. What do you think about Voltaic Key, I always thought, that it wouldn't be that useful, as I only run a few really good targets for it and I always prefered playing an additional mana rock instead of it. Soul of New Phyrexia could also be a great addition, as it seems to be a good replacement for Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer.

Clock of Omens + Mycosynth Lattice + Myr Battlesphere + Goblin Welder is also a crazy Infinite combo which gives you Infinite myr tokens, untap-effects and mana. Sac Myr Battlesphere, untap Goblin Welder with Myr tokens, sac one tapped myr token to get Myr Battlesphere back, you get two untapped and one tapped myr token every time.

March 9, 2016 11:10 a.m.

abzanforever says... #4

If you want to keep at least playing one Eldrazi, then you should consider adding Eye of Ugin to your deck, it is a great tutor for your big creatures and can also work as a win condition. Minus you can't tap it for mana, so it isn't in a land slot in my deck.

March 9, 2016 11:18 a.m.

Guerte says... #5

abzanforever: Voltaic Key is really good here. It makes Grim Monolith/Basalt Monolith better, and any rock that produces more than one mana. Gets additional use out of The Chain Veil and Contagion Engine, or it can untap a creature to block. It really has become very useful since I added it.

I will see how the testing goes, but I may add Thran Dynamo back in. I really do like it. Especially the OG Foil. :P

I will add that combo to my list. Thanks!

And I did run Eye of Ugin at one point, but I hated drawing it for the simple reason it doesn't produce mana. It really isn't worth running in my list.

March 9, 2016 11:27 a.m. Edited.

abzanforever says... #6

Ok, I'll try Voltaic Key. In my deck, Eye of Ugin is just a strong win condition, I really like that Eldrazi aspect in my list, as I won many games with them and just like the face of my opponents while playing one of them :)

March 9, 2016 11:39 a.m.

Unstable Obelisk may not be super exciting, but the additional removal has proven useful to me in my Kozilek deck, so it may be good here.

Vedalken Orrery + Unwinding Clock is like your own Prophet of Kruphix, might be worth considering.

Still love this deck, can't wait to see it on video and I DEFINITELY can't wait to see that Bazaar of Baghdad when it's done :D

March 9, 2016 11:46 p.m.

Guerte says... #8

SnowCoveredPlainswalker: Unstable Obelisk is definitely good in Kozilek. I ran it there as well. However, in this deck, I feel like there are better options for both mana and removal.

I don't really feel the need to play many things on my opponent's turns, but will definitely keep that in mind if it changes.

I contacted the artist, and he says he will probably get started on it Monday. So hopefully not long after that I will have it so I can do the video.

March 10, 2016 10:44 a.m.

Storm525 says... #9

March 14, 2016 8:29 a.m.

Guerte says... #10

Storm525: I'm going to be adding an Exclusions section to the Primer, and Hellkite Tyrant is going to be the #1 card I exclude. He's just too dangerous for us to use compared to Blightsteel.

If we get Bribery'd, we could take a couple hits from Blightseel and still be ok if we have enough toughness on board. If one point of damage goes throught, we could lose our entire board, especially if Mycosynth Lattice is on board.

On the opposite side of things, when we use either, Blightsteel is the more effective wincons. He's usually a one-hitter. Without Lattice on board, we're probably going to need to get a few hits in in order to get a few more artifacts to get to twenty. He's just ineffective for us, and also dangerous when used against us.

March 14, 2016 9:29 a.m.

abzanforever says... #11

You should really try Platinum Emperion

March 16, 2016 10:37 a.m.

Guerte says... #12

abzanforever: I feel like Platinum Emperion doesn't do enough to warrant a spot in here. Yes, it'll make you stay in the game longer, as will Platinum Angel, but that's all they do and that's just not enough for me. Thanks for the suggestion tho!

March 16, 2016 2:27 p.m.

Isphus says... #13

No Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient? That guy doubles lots of interesting things, like The Chain Veil, Voltaic Key or Mindslaver.

March 16, 2016 3:23 p.m.

Guerte says... #14

Isphus: I'm not a real big fan of Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient. Rings of Brighthearth does it so much better. It's easier to cast, isn't restricted to just artifacts, and is easily recurrable.

March 16, 2016 4:36 p.m.

alexyoung says... #15

Mana Crypt is better than Sol Ring, but you should still probably run both. Just my two cents.

March 16, 2016 11:40 p.m.

Guerte says... #16

alexyoung: Both are in the deck. :)

March 17, 2016 12:47 a.m.

NarejED says... #18

Nice. Looks like a solid build.

Quick question: Have you ever considered going a more stax/MLD route? Most agree that it's the best build by far for Daretti. Paramount posted a decent Stax list for him a few years ago. It's a bit outdated but it's a decent jumping off point for anyone trying to optimize Daretti. Link(Some immediate upgrades are Crucible of Worlds and Magus of the Moon.)

Focusing on MLD and preventing opponents from casting most spells while cheating degenerate artifacts like Ward of Bones, Posessed portal, and Nullstone Gargoyle leads to a lot of wins and a lot of groans from opponents. It's worth looking into if you want to go more competitive.

March 17, 2016 9:08 p.m.

Guerte says... #19

alexyoung: I think that's comparing apples to oranges. If some people wanna run him, more power to them. But I don't like the card. I've tried it out in the early stages and it just wasn't doing enough for me. Thank you for the suggestion tho.

NarejED: I'll be completely honest with you: I've seen the list. I've tried the exact list. I did not like it. I'm not a fan of MLD and comepletey locking people out of the game. I'd rather win a hard fought game, than a game where everyone else say there and did nothing. I still win a good percentage of my games with this list, and that's a percentage I'm happy with. I feel like if I went that route, people would not like to play against Daretti, and he's my favorite deck to play. Thank you for commenting tho.

March 17, 2016 9:17 p.m.

Maaki says... #20

Hey, what do you think of this combo: Krark-Clan Ironworks + Nim Deathmantle + (Wurmcoil Engine || Myr Battlesphere || Precursor Golem) = infinit tokens and mana

I frequently win with this combo, but it is hard to establish because you need so much pieces for it to work. But Nim Deathmantle often feels like a dead draw because the usage outside of the combo is feels underwhelming. Do you think I should cut it for something more useful?

Maybe you can look at my list (Scrapyard of Fun), it's similar to yours but perhaps I miss anything crucial!?

March 18, 2016 3:33 p.m.

VexenX says... #21

All the cards you just added where already in my build except Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and The Chain Veil, both of which make since. I think I will take out my Thopter Assembly and Starstorm!

March 18, 2016 6:21 p.m.

NarejED says... #22

That's definitely fair, and I completely understand. A lot of people dislike MLD, and for good reason. I just saw 'Degenerate' in the title and jumped to some conclusions that I probably shouldn't have. There's definitely a difference between 'degenerate' and 'pure evil', which is what stax often ends up being. Most don't like playing against, or even playing it themselves.

Anyway, amazing deck! I definitely picked up a few interesting ideas for cards and synergies for the Daretti build I've been tinkering with (yes, it's a stax version. Being pure evil is fun sometimes). I'm still new to the commander myself, so I can't easily return the favor yet. Hopefully after a few hours of testing I can come back with a few card suggestions myself though.

March 18, 2016 8:16 p.m.

Guerte says... #23

Maaki: Honestly? It seems like too many pieces to be a viable combo. Deathmantle isn't really all that good on it's own. But if it works for you, go ahead and run it! Everyone has their own take on every deck. I will definitely take a look at your list.

VexenX: As scary as it can be to have another Bribery target, I've actually found Newlamog really useful. The exile on cast ability has actually saved me multiple times; it's better than Scour from Existence, and if it resolves, you get a nice body with a relevant ability. And The Chain Veil has been working really well; more than I had originally thought.

NarejED: I call him Degenerate because some of the things he can do really are degenerate. I don't fault you for running Stax; for me, I just find it more enjoyable playing the cards I do. To each their own!! I'm glad you like it, and I'm always for bouncing ideas off of one another.

March 18, 2016 8:41 p.m.

Can't believe I haven't asked this yet but, why no Dust Bowl? It's great land destruction and you do run Crucible of Worlds to combo with it.

March 22, 2016 3:45 p.m.

Scence says... #25

I have found Mesmeric Orb an interesting card, as it slowly fills up your graveyard (and unfortunately your opponents' graveyards). However, it can also go infinite with Basalt Monolith, milling yourself hopefully a bunch of artifacts, Recoup and Scrap Mastery. With these and enough mana, you can cheat a lot of artifacts into play.

March 22, 2016 8:26 p.m.