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|Time Spiral (TSP)||Rare|
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Suspend 3— (Rather than cast this card from your hand, pay and exile it with three time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is removed, cast it without paying its mana cost.)
, Sacrifice Lotus Bloom: Add three mana of any one color to your mana pool.
Lotus Bloom Discussion
4 days ago
@ Natux No offense taken mate, respectful discussion is how people learn, grow and come to understand new ideas. I'm definitely not the world's greatest gift to cEDH and I'm constantly striving to pick up information where I can from whomever I can.
I, by no means, assumed you were a new to cEDH player. Those players tend not to have well crafted lists and solid understandings of the meta and you clearly do. I did rather assume that the quality of competition you face in terms of players and decks is liable to be less than the quality of competition I tend to play with, but this is generally true considering my playgroup consists of 4 regulars who've all played for nearly 25 years and who all (minus myself) have achieved success at the professional level of play (I'm legit the only one in the play group without a single life time pro point, sad face), both at Pro Tours and GPs. The percentages I'm using come directly from our tracked data of games played. There's all sorts of info out there for Modern, Standard, Legacy and what not, but there is very little meta information collected when it comes to EDH so we started tracking our own when I first got really into EDH about 2 and a half years back. The program has about 8000 games worth of data at this point and is a nifty resource, I absolutely recommend using Excel to start tracking your own data.
I also don't want to give the impression that I don't comprehend your decks intended game plan, that much seemed pretty clear. It's just that using Yidris as a back up plan for a storm concept probably isn't ideal use of either Yidris or the storm archetype. Consultation Kess has a similar game plan and is significantly better at executing it, both because of the enhancement that game plan gets from the command zone and because of the card selection typical of those decks. Granted it isn't exactly the most potent gameplan in the meta, but I'm just using it as an example. It's not that you can't use Yidris as a back up, it's just that this isn't the most ideal use of Yidris. You might as well be all in on the ultra fast combo approach or opt into a different commander that better executes that style of gameplan, or even opt into a superior gameplan in the same colors and simply run the Sultai PS shell of Thrasios/Smasher. If it's going to be Yidris, might as well do Yidris things the Yidris way. Again, it's not that Yidris can't perform in a different fashion, it's just that there are better options generally for that style.
Land count isn't an exact thing, but there are some pretty common understandings in terms of the math. 44 out of 99 is a solid percentage, it generally means you'll be seeing the proper amount of mana sources in opening hands to facilitate your game plan. This means less mulligans and greater consistency which translates into more wins per 100 games played. That ratio (with the sub ratio of 28/16) means the odds for a typical opening hand will have that hand consist of 2 lands and one ramp piece. Your deck is a bit shy of that at 27/15 and 2 of those rocks are Lotus Bloom and Lion's Eye Diamond which aren't really effective ramp pieces. You'll probably have to mulligan 7-10% more often than you otherwise would per 100 games played just because of that mana source count, just something for you to consider.
I think what you're really looking for is something specific though, so let me see if I can provide an example of a specific change that would improve the deck. You're currently running Goblin Electromancer , primarily in a cost reduction role. This isn't an awful card, but the function it serves is pretty limited. It's only reducing Sorceries and Instants, and you have Baral to supplement that. If both are out on the field at the same time, very little of your deck is going to benefit from them both being out, it's just your wheel effects, Yawg Will, Force of Will, and Ad Naus. You could instead replace that card with Helm of Awakening and now all those cards would still benefit, but so would some of your enchantments, all your artifacts, and some of your creatures, significantly improving the quality of your storm turns when you go off. The draw back is negligible when you're storming off as you already are in a position where opponents couldn't stop you from comboing, so they likely can't even make use of it the overwhelming majority of games. In addition, your mana base is much less strained as the cmc is the same compared to the Electromancer, but the lack of color requirement makes casting it significantly easier. Just changing this one card would be an improvement that probably accounts for 1 or 2 more wins per 100 games played with your deck than it currently will achieve.
As for the average winning turn, that kind of stuff rather depends on the matches that get played and the decks included in it, but a useful indicator of relative speed, barring interaction, is the goldfish test. If you goldfish your list 100 times (taking into account mulligan rules in the event these are needed based on opening hands) it's going to average a gold fish win somewhere between turns 4-5. Probably close to 4.3 or 4.4 is my guess (haven't done this with your deck so it's purely an estimation, but I am pretty okay at that). By comparison the average goldfish win turn for my list is in the low 3s, almost a whole turn better. Now this data doesn't actually mean all that much in the grand scheme of things because real games aren't solitaire, but this information can be a useful indicator for relative speed of a deck.
Hopefully all this is a bit more informative, sorry if the first set of responses was a bit more ambiguous.
4 days ago
Hello there yay,
I have seen FurFur's list before. I don't agree that it's an optimisation of this deck, but rather a deck that plays the same commander with a different goal. The goal of his deck it to mill himself and win through an empty library, rather than storm off. This is reflected in some of the card choices, which do not fit this specific style of deck.
The goal of your deck does seem to storm off, although I must admit I fail to see the actual wincon in your deck. I agree with the fact that your deck is faster on average, but not with the fact that it's more consistent. Your deck seems to rely solely on getting your commander out as fast as possible, then win through its ability. If he's ever stopped, there are a lot of cards in your deck that do nothing, while one of the strengths of this deck is that there are very few dead cards. Because of this, I feel the consistency of your deck is lower rather than higher. If, in your meta, Yidris always connects I can see why you would say it's more consistent. Speaking of dead cards outside of cascade turns, Wheel of Fate is one of those cards. I used to play it, but it was often not needed in the cascade turns and absolutely horrible outside of it. Paying two mana and waiting four turns allows your opponents to prepare for it way too well, by countering it or emptying their own hands...if you're not dead before it's being cast. Lotus Bloom and Ancestral Vision at least have lower costs and/or take less long to suspend, as well as providing value only to yourself.
Thanks for the comment and suggestions. If you feel like my assessment is wrong, please correct me. One other thing I'm wondering is whether you ever have problems with your manabase. Your deck seems pretty evenly split among four colours, which seems hard on the manabase. I don't have experience with this, however, so please let me know.
5 days ago
Oloro_Magic I agree with your sentiments towards horizons, it does feel real lackluster in regards to Ad Naus. The only cards I could think of would be Mox Tantalite , Force of Despair , and yes fluster. but FoD is tooo situation forthis deck imo may as well play bontu's, and mox, while strong i think, lotus is obviously better, there could be some argument to removing pentad's or even spoils, but there really isnt a point is there? As for Core20, there's a few cards i find interesting tbh. Scheming Symmetry is one of them, and i honestly think should be tried in place of spoils. yes they can tutor for answers, but like spoils you'd more than likely board it out game 2, but having a modern legal imperial seal just seems too good to not at least try. And honestly i really want to find a way to use Lotus Bloom the card is just so ridiculous. Other than that there's a few cute SB beaters like the blue cavelier
1 week ago
2 weeks ago
This is a bit of a long one, but I'd like to respond to all the comments haha,
Love the deck name. The First Sliver is very fast and can be brutal when the opponent can't blow you out. Swarming the field can be enough to slaughter your opponent if its 1v1. It's definitely much harder if your partner has killed your commander 3 times and forced it to become 11 cmc! But of course, still very good.
In non 1v1 it could be harder, but then it could be still ok as well, depends on the meta and the politics in the play group. I never realised how important politics were until I played one of my other favourite decks: Queen Marchesa . Sometimes I face 1 control deck and 2 other aggro decks and I find that we all team up to take down the control deck because it can easily blow us all up with an Evacuation or Cyclonic Rift . In a meta full of other aggro decks, sometimes I find there are more threatening challengers, e.g. Edgar Markov which can start of WAY faster, Maelstrom Wanderer which can just win in a single turn, and Reanimator strategies which summon giant unstoppable threats. In a full combo meta, you might find that you get a lot of support if you make deals with people to assist in taking down a combo player. One of my friends was playing Kess, Dissident Mage storm and everyone countered his boardwipes so I could get in to finish him before he went off. Certainly where no one plays politics, you will seem quite threatening because you're the 'sliver' guy (definitely a dirty word). The First Sliver is very threatening, but it has some weaknesses (e.g. board wipes) and may be portrayed as more 'dirty' than it actually is. If you make it clear what your weaknesses are, play it patient + look for windows where you can surprise kill people, and make it clear that you play a role in keeping the peace (that you're valuable to keep alive), it won't be too bad and people won't see The First Sliver as THAT big of a threat (albeit still a threat haha). When you attack, share the love. When you go in for the kill, be sure u can kill them dead.
I hope you have fun at the LGS! I'm actually overseas on vacation at the moment, but in July I'll be back at my LGS and keen to slam some games with this deck.
Thanks for the constructive criticism; I don't think it's negative at all and very useful. I hope I get more comments like this. I'll try to address all the points, please let me know if I missed anything!
- Hitting 5 mana consistently
You'd be surprised at how often the deck is able to get to 5 mana. I based the land count off my predecessor sliver lists, though after play testing, I found that 35 was good myself. We don't really thin the deck of lands so we draw lands quite a lot. If worse comes to worse, you might need to mull, but as soon as you hit 5 lands you can do much of what the deck was designed to do.
We have ramp in the form of Manaweft Sliver , Gemhide Sliver , Cultivate , Kodama's Reach , Herald's Horn , Urza's Incubator and even 2 pseudo-power cards as ramp (as well as ways to search for them/draw them). But you're right about the lack of ramp. Hence, I've I mentioned in one of the previous comments (#10) that I'll be trying to add more "ramp/rocks to ensure consistency as well as enough mana in the late game". Ultimately, however, I do want to minimise the number of non-sliver cards. The gimmick of this deck just aims to cascade as much as possible and play the pseudo-power cards. We don't risk cascading into ramp by accident, which is what I didn't like about my Maelstrom Wanderer deck, so the ceiling is high, but there is the trade-off.
The deck seems to do fine in getting to 5 from what I've seen, though I'll report back after further tests. Even if it doesn't hit 5 lands on 5, it doesn't mean doom. The deck is admittedly quite glass cannon regarding lands, though by virtue, it also has a high ceiling. Maybe after testing more, I'll go up to 36, but I will need to find room for that extra land. I'm considering even putting in utility lands (see comment #10) which will grind us advantage while also adding to the land count.
Much of the lands come in tapped yes, but in the guide I wrote that this was a budget mana base. I also suggested to use fetches, shocks (and even duals) if you had them available to you. The lands will come in tapped in this build, though if you sequence correctly it should not be too much of a hindrance.
Ultimately, I keep my low land count because: As you said I mentioned, the deck is fast. For the most part, 5 mana is all you need to go off because you'll be casting multiple slivers off each trigger (we also have acceleration cards that allow free casting, such as Descendants' Path and the hideaway lands, so we can do more with less mana). This low count also ensures you draw as most slivers as possible.
- Recasting the commander
You are completely correct in noticing the weakness in The First Sliver being removed and being hard to be recasted. In comment #4 I stated that after play testing the The First Sliver became widely feared and was likely to be removed. Therefore I suggested to add in Diffusion Sliver . The idea is to either have enough lands or play protection before you cast The First Sliver (for now, but, as I mentioned, I definitely would like to try tech in more ramp, though what we have now is not too bad). Also, you have to be aware that as soon as you cascade a few times after, you're very likely to hit Mox Tantalite and Lotus Bloom which will keep you in the game until you hit more lands and the card draw engines (including Ancestral Vision ) will draw you into more.
As for protection, I consider cards that leave The First Sliver 's casting cost at 5 as protection as well (I probably should have been more clear about this). As long as you can replay your commander, it can do its job. These include: Crypt Sliver , Hibernation Sliver , Frenetic Sliver , Pulmonic Sliver , Sliver Hivelord , Ward Sliver , Crystalline Sliver and ways of searching. Sometimes these slivers will be situational (e.g. some cannot defend against exile effects), though patience and not presenting yourself as a threat before getting these cards out is the key. Sometimes you just need to play without The First Sliver abit. You can also let your commander go to the grave and use Graveshifter or Volrath's Stronghold .
Again, there are also other utility lands which I want to tech in (see comment #10) which will act as recursion after The First Sliver dies. In saying this, I avoid non-sliver protection spells for the same reason I try minimise ramp spells: ending the cascade chain. Also, I would rather draw slivers or non-sliver cards that accelerate us in the late game + while some of the slivers I mentioned account for board-wipes, the non-creature shroud/hex proof cards will leave you with no slivers to protect after a wrath.
Thanks for the feedback! I'll definitely test with more ramp and lands for sure.
This is an interesting suggestion, I haven't really considered it. Though there seem to be some downsides.
Aetherflux Reservoir could be good as we cast so many spells off cascade. This can lead to finishing opponents off early. However, we don't cast enough spells to gain us up to 111 life (assuming this is a standard game with 4 players and everyone at 40 life, leaving us at 1 after Aetherflux Reservoir ). Based on the triangle number sequence, if we cast 4 creatures we will deal 10 damage. If we cast 5 (the average) we will deal 15 damage. If we cast 6, we will deal 21 damage. This will take at least 6 turns to get to 111 life, by which the opponents will have destruction for the Aetherflux Reservoir and we can't protect it, lacking any counters in the deck (a bit too glass cannon?). We are also so aggressive that we can normally already kill under 6 turns when we do go off. Because the lack of defensiveness this deck has, we will also be taking a lot of damage from other aggro decks. This will be worse for us if we play Aetherflux Reservoir , because we will likely become more archenemy than we already are; we can definitely take out 1 or 2 players, but our life will be too at risk from the last player. This also encourages going all out with casting our hand, which may cause us to over-extend and blow out.
This may be assisted by Essence Sliver though such may be a bit inconsistent. Furthermore, it's a risk to cascade into it and is a card that we don't necessarily want in the late game, having cast everything we have already.
Though again, my theorising is all on paper and I might give it a try? In practice who's to say it won't work? With aggression from our deck we may not even need to reach 100 life. Very interesting suggestion.
- Thank you all for the feedback! I like constructive criticism and will continue to improve this build.
1 month ago
Hi, long post. I'm looking to get a lot of trading done hopefully.
I'm putting together a Estrid, the Masked Oathbreaker deck. I need to trade for Estrid obviously, and I also need some specific cards to to complete the deck. Here's a list:
1x Estrid, the Masked 1x Breeding Pool 1x Estrid's Invocation 1x Gift of Paradise 1x Imprisoned in the Moon 1x Mystic Remora 1x Weirding Wood 1x Swan Song 1x Swords to Plowshares 1x Kiora's Follower 1x Bramble Sovereign 2x Stasis 1x Hokori, Dust Drinker 1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence 1x Chain of Vapor 1x Spellseeker AnyX Forge of Heroes
I also have some specific wants from recent sets that I would be interested in trading for:
1x Phyrexian Altar (EMA) 2x Generous Gift 1x Gamble 1x Sulfur Falls 1x Finale of Revelation 1x Evolution Sage 1x Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin 1x Karn's Bastion 1x Flux Channeler 1x Bolas's Citadel 1x Karn, the Great Creator 2x Runic Armasaur 1x Biomancer's Familiar 1x Dark-Dweller Oracle 1x Immolation Shaman 1x Rhythm of the Wild 1x Emmara, Soul of the Accord 1x Teysa Karlov 1x Ugin, the Ineffable 1x God-Eternal Oketra 1x Teferi, Time Raveler 1x Saheeli, Sublime Artificer 1x Tithe Taker 1x Light Up the Stage 1x Priest of Forgotten Gods 1x Beast Whisperer 1x Cruel Celebrant 2x Dovin's Veto 1x Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion 1x Primal Amulet Flip 1x Neheb, the Eternal 1x Deep Forest Hermit 17x Snow-Covered Mountain 1x Goblin Engineer 1x Yawgmoth, Thran Physician 1x Cabal Therapist 1x Mirrodin Besieged 1x Hall of Heliod's Generosity 1x Talisman of Hierarchy 1x Talisman of Creativity
And I was also thinking about making a Feather EDH deck, so I would be interested in trading for these cards as well:
I also have a bunch of commander staples in my binder wants. I'll obviously trade for them for the right offer, but if I haven't listed them here then they're not a priority for me right now.
You can find my Binder here: Link. It should be about 95% up to date. I recommend sorting by price, since there's a lot on there.
Here's a list of some of my notable haves that I'm looking to trade:
1x Leyline of the Void 1x Ensnaring Bridge (STH) 1x Sakashima the Impostor 1x The Chain Veil 1x Purphoros, God of the Forge 2x Vedalken Orrery 1x Scourge of the Throne 1x Life from the Loam 1x Tainted Pact 1x Nature's Will 1x Opalescence 1x Isochron Scepter 1x Master Transmuter 2x Sterling Grove 1x Karador, Ghost Chieftain 3x Nim Deathmantle 1x Lotus Bloom 4x Puresteel Paladin
...and others not mentioned.
Leave a comment or message me if you're interested :)
1 month ago
If you need help with knowing how much/what ramp to use, you might want to check out https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/brewer-s-minute-ramp-math
I am not an expert in mono, but for you I recommend adding:
Myriad Landscape can go in almost any edh deck
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx is solid in any one- or two-colour deck
Lake of the Dead has a downside, but you won't care when you're using it (trust me)
Petrified Field to protect valuable lands.
I'm not sure how I feel about Temple of the False God , but it is an EDH classic.
Other mono ramp
I ended up finding so many mono ramp cards I thought I might as well make a more full list.
Solemn Simulacrum is a good catch-all
Nirkana Revenant is good in the right deck
Bog Witch is kind of weird, but has fringe uses
I haven't thought hard, but you might be able to do some flicker shenanigans with Priest of Gix
Worst case, an edh deck can always load up on rocks. These are some of the best ones for mono black
Sol Ring every edh deck should include this
Pillar of Origins for tribal decks
In most games, these do the same thing: Commander's Sphere , Cryptolith Fragment Flip, Cultivator's Caravan , Darksteel Ingot , Hierophant's Chalice , Honor-Worn Shaku , Mana Prism , Manalith , Orazca Relic , Phyrexian Totem , Powerstone Shard , Pristine Talisman , Seer's Lantern , Serum Powder , Skull of Ramos , Sol Grail , Spectral Searchlight , Vessel of Endless Rest , Victory Chimes , and Chromatic Lantern
Thought Vessel if you fill your hand
Chrome Mox is usually worth the card disadvantage
Mox Amber if you usually have your commander/a legendary thing out
Mox Diamond if lands in your graveyard is a good thing
Mox Opal if you have 2+ extra artifacts
Black Market is good if you tend to sacrifice/kill a lot of creatures
Liliana of the Dark Realms is nice with proliferate, and makes sure you don't miss land drops in the mid/late-game
Sword of the Animist is best with one-mana creatures, and if you attack often, but might be justified even if not
Carnival of Souls is fun with some creature-based combos
Crypt of Agadeem works, but only if you consistently have 4+ creatures in the graveyard
Phyrexian Tower eats your creatures
Cabal Coffers is a staple
Cabal Stronghold is great if you can't afford many nonbasics, and might be good enough besides.
1 month ago
marn3us: I do think you're right; while Combustible Gearhulk was a powerful card in standard, I don't think it's good in the EDH arena. For card draw, Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time are typically good starting points, though neither is particularly repeatable and you probably don't want to run them together, as delve can become hard to use. I think most card-draw engines don't have much of a second upside, simply because the upside of drawing cards is so good. Phyrexian Arena is a favorite of mine, though it is around $10 now. Jace Beleren is OK, especially if you can pair his +1 with a Notion Thief . You might also consider running Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas or Tezzeret, Artifice Master , though together the two would run you about $25. Staff of Nin is a permanent card for card advantage, as are Howling Mine and Dictate of Kruphix , if you don't mind helping your opponents too. I briefly looked over my first comment, but I don't think I mentioned the cantrips in it; I apologize. Ponder , Preordain and Brainstorm are all great first plays, with brainstorm becoming better with more shuffle effects (like the slow fetches). Twilight Prophet is another favorite card-draw engine of mine.
I see your reason for running the artifact lands better now. You should consider Lotus Bloom for fetching with Tezzeret, as that's an easy +3 mana, and I think Swords to Plowshares is better than Dispatch . However, the other synergies may justify leaving in the lands... practice should help there.
I also want to draw your attention to some new spoilers that just came out today. I can't believe it, but I failed to mention the original 'talisman cycle' to you before now: Talisman of Progress , Talisman of Dominance and Talisman of Indulgence would all fit well in your deck. Today, it was announced that there will be enemy talismans in Modern Horizons. I intend to pick up a Talisman of Creativity, but you should consider running the talismans of Conviction and Hierarchy as well. These will make excellent 2-mana accelerants, and should end up only being $1-$2 a piece.
As always, good luck!
Lotus Bloom occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.04%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%