Jumping Into Modern
Modern forum
Posted on Aug. 18, 2013, 1:54 p.m. by CanadianShinobi
As rotation approaches I've been considering leaving standard play and delving into Modern. However, I have no experience with Modern decks, and the card pool is rather intimidating. Are there any articles, or general advice to be given to players looking to join the Modern format?
I hate using them, but I have found a number of split second cards to be invalueable in stopping numerous combos deck like Melira Pod's infinite combo, the number of Kiki Jiki infinite combo, and other shenanigans. Though you don't necessarily need the split second if you know what to watch out for. I tend not to, but I am a newbie.
August 22, 2013 4:08 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #3
Okay then, let's go off of that. What exactly am I watching for when facing such a deck? I too am new, so any information if highly valuable to me.
August 22, 2013 4:17 a.m.
Well in the case of popular pod decks. Melira, Sylvok Outcast , when combined with Persist effects, can make a chaingun-like effects with cards like Murderous Redcap , when combined with a sac outlet like say Viscera Seer , can allow yourself to infinitely sac a creature to scry through your deck while dealing infinite amount of damage, or gaining infinite life in the event of Kitchen Finks , which tends to come a turn sooner. Birthing Pod helps them get their combo together and has varying support cards like Reveillark or Eternal Witness to get more creatures onto the battlefield to get combo going off again.
Or like that Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker I was mentioning. If you combine him with an effect along the line of Pestermite , you can give yourself an infinite number of tokens and swing for lethal, since they all have haste anyways. Thanks to splitsecond, when they finally pass priority to you, you play a split-second card Sudden Death to kill off the important part of the combo, thus stopping themselves from chaining it some more. I know both death concept are rather popular though I don't know how prevelant they are.
August 22, 2013 4:32 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #5
Now, obviously these decks have answers to my answers and thus I must develop more answers, however they seem a little fragile, especially towards something along the lines of Reap Intellect . I realize that card is slow (though personally I believe it's underrated) but it's a good example of destroying a combo by removing it's pieces from the game.
August 22, 2013 12:36 p.m.
Some insight into pod then. I'm a dedicated Melira Pod player and while I don't know the Kiki Pod deck as well and won't discuss it much explicitly, there are obviously some general similarities.
Pod is not fragile. Its combo is fragile because it's three cards (two for Kiki) that are all creatures. However, the power of the deck does not come from the combo, because it is not, at its heart, a combo deck. Its power is that it's a very good midrange beatdown deck that forces you to also take a combo into account lest you lose to it out of nowhere.
There are matchups where I take out most of my combo pieces, planning on only going off if the stars happen to align. There are actually a couple of matchups where I board out all of my Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Chord of Calling and half of my Birthing Pod , rendering me incapable of comboing and not very effective at tutoring. Obviously, boarding like this would pretty much completely invalidate a Reap Intellect or an Extirpate or the like.
The weakness of Melira Pod can be summed up in one word: sweepers. Even that isn't quite as bad since Voice of Resurgence became a part of the deck.
Your best bet in playing it is to keep them from abusing Birthing Pod by destroying it or invalidating it with Stony Silence , to sweep all of its little creatures, and to hold up mana for spot removal to kill off a Melira in response to the Pod player sacrificing a Persist creature. If you really want to neuter the combo, play graveyard hate like Rest in Peace or Scavenging Ooze , because they prevent Persist creatures from coming back out of the graveyard.
August 22, 2013 1:54 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #7
Barandis thanks for the insight. So it would be beneficial to sideboard these cards then. Espcially Stony Silence as it can be utilized against Affinity decks as well, correct? Would something like Detention Sphere or Oblivion Ring be effective in Modern format as well? I would assume so, and asking after specific cards is probably pointless, but I figured it may be usefull to do so just in case.
August 22, 2013 2:19 p.m.
If you're using Stony Silence (meaning that you're playing white) and it doesn't otherwise hose you, Aven Mindcensor is also a good choice. Not only does Pod like to search with the Pods and Chords, it also likes to play a lot of fetchlands.
Detention Sphere and Oblivion Ring have the normal applications in Modern, but they don't tend to be that good because there's a lot of Abrupt Decay in several popular decks. They also receives splash hate from Affinity (they die to Qasali Pridemage and Harmonic Sliver just as easily as artifacts do) and from the fact that Pod decks will expect white decks to play things like Stony Silence and Rest in Peace , so they'll board in enchantment hate. You can't count on it being a permanent solution. No pun intended. Really.
August 22, 2013 2:37 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #9
One thing to note on pod, as I have begun to investigate and play it. A lot of pod decks are now running Archangel of Thune + Spike Feeder as a way to gain infinite life and infinite counters without the need for graveyard shenanigans. (Of course this can still be achieved by Kitchen Finks + a sac outlet.) This way a simple Birds of Paradise becomes an X/X flying monster.
August 22, 2013 2:48 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #10
Ohthenoises that sounds terrifying...
Question: Would it be possible to redirect Birthing Pod by using Spellskite ? Of course I'd need to mix in a 3 drop creature, but let's just assume there are no options at that point.
Also, all this deck searching would make Shadow of Doubt an extremely usefull sideboard card then.
August 22, 2013 3:37 p.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #12
Also you need to take your head out of RTR block. You keep giving examples of cards to use from the current standard. Remember that we have every card printed in 8th edition and on. A lot of what is played in standard is not viable in modern decks. There are cards that do the same thing or more for less CMC. Why play Reap Intellect when you can play Thoughtseize on turn one?
August 22, 2013 9:19 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #13
& if u wanted to do the 2nd effect, Thoughtseize & Surgical Extraction (U can play both cards, turn 1)
August 22, 2013 9:30 p.m.
Or just Inquisition of Kozilek , as I've always preferred. Save 2 life and $55 for pretty much the exact same effect.
August 22, 2013 10:03 p.m.
Anybody have any real knowledge of BUG colored decks?
August 22, 2013 10:08 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #16
Sorry if I've given you that impression, I merely picked the card off the top of my head. And I'll agree with vishnarg on this point. Inquisition of Kozilek is limited, but if what I'm gathering is true, then there are crucial cards within its range that can be plucked. While the wish list deck I've constructed is by far from original, I hope that I have built it in such a way as to answer what threats I may. I believe you did say ConBurnMadMan that I must gamble with how the sideboard is constructed.
Of course gambling when you have a poor head for the odds is rather foolish. I did mention you in the deck's description, so should you find time I would greatly appreciate your thoughts as you have been, by far, the most vocal, and the most succient in your advice.
August 23, 2013 4:40 a.m.
Inquisition of Kozilek is very dependent on the opponent. You'll run into a lot of Modern opponents who play almost nothing over 3 CMC. In those cases, IoK is even better than Thoughtseize because you won't take 2 damage for casting it.
Of course, you can't get Splinter Twin or Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker from Exarch Twin decks, Scapeshift or Primeval Titan from Scapeshift decks, Karn Liberated or Wurmcoil Engine from Tron decks...like I said, it's very dependent.
Before I acquired my set of Thoughtseize , I played a mix of IoK and Duress , because Duress can get many (not all) of the cards I mentioned. But I came to the sad realization that if I really wanted the targeted discard to do what I needed it to do in some matches, I had to sink the $240-ish into Thoughtseize . I wasn't happy about that and absolutely understand why someone wouldn't want to.
August 23, 2013 11:24 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #18
what vishnarg failed to mention is that Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize are quite often played in the same deck with a full play set of one or both. IoK can be a substitute for Thoughtseize ...but If u were to do that, I'd seriously consider also running 2x Duress and 2x Despise
August 23, 2013 10:52 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #19
Combining those assortment of cards would take up too much space in my opinion. 8 cards just for the discard factor? I dunno... removal and counterspells could be just as effective. IoK is good enough for now...
August 24, 2013 3:23 a.m.
That's what I meant - there are some discard fun decks that can run 4 of: Thoughtseize , Inquisition of Kozilek , Wrench Mind , Liliana of the Veil , Liliana's Caress , and more shenanigan graveyard fun like Deathrite Shaman , Gravecrawler , Lingering Souls , etc. I agree though, Inquisition of Kozilek as a playset effectively takes up enough of the deck, and functions awesomely as a black Spell Snare . Losing them their Liliana of the Veil , Deathrite Shaman , Goblin Guide , Tarmogoyf , Snapcaster Mage , Dark Confidant , etc are the plays that will ultimately win a game. Being a tron player myself, forcing a discard of Expedition Map , Sylvan Scrying , or even Chromatic Star is a better option than discarding their Karn Liberated or Eldrazi because it will slow it down a few turns in that one move. Therefore I say, take out the opponents win conditions before they can cast them by running Inquisition of Kozilek ! (Still would go great also with Thoughtseize ...)
August 24, 2013 8:35 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #21
DISCALIMER: Depending on your meta!
If you see a ton, and I mean a TON of reanimator and Kiki/Resto Pod everyone seems to be forgetting Appetite for Brains . Those are kinda fringe decks right now and that's why AfB isn't ran much.
August 24, 2013 10:11 a.m.
I don't suggest taking up that much space. The most that I'm aware of in single-target discard is 6-7 cards...BW Tokens, for instance, tends to main-deck 4 Thoughtseize and then put some small number of Duress in the sideboard. If you're not doing Thoughtseize (and after buying a playset this week...man, I don't blame you), then a mix of Duress and Inquisition of Kozilek will do you well. I was playing 2 of each in my sideboard until this week.
I played against RG Tron today, for isntance, and I realized that the four cards that I want to hit the most (Expedition Map , Karn Liberated , Oblivion Stone , Pyroclasm ) are all handled by Duress , IoK handles three of those four. That isn't half bad, but it's useful to point out that in this case Duress is better.
The same can be said about Splinter Twin and Scapeshift . That IoK can hit creatures makes it better for Jund (if you bother having discard against Jund) and a few other matchups. It's pretty dependent on archetype, so don't settle on just IoK.
Appetite for Brains is mentioned above, but in Modern, this is a very, very narrow card. It's very good against Tron, good against the Primeval Titan variation of Scapeshift (it's worse than Duress against the Snapcaster Mage variation) and is halfway decent against Splinter Twin. Other than that...this is a fast format where often cards of CMC 4+ are considered too slow, so you don't see a lot of them.
Despise just isn't worth it. Duress already hits planeswalkers, and the only creatures that you care about that aren't already handled by IoK number about three. It's much more narrow even than AfB.
TL;DR: Four single-target discard spells in your 75 will do you well, perhaps as many as 6-7 in the right deck. If you don't have access to Thoughtseize , play a mix of Duress and Inquisition of Kozilek .
August 24, 2013 11:52 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #23
@ Barandis
On the topic of hand disruption, I'm running an Esper Gifts deck found here (The Gift of Control) would you recommend main boarding some disruption, or should I keep it where it is in the sideboard and swap out as necessary?
September 4, 2013 9:46 p.m.
In that deck, I wouldn't really be interested in main deck hand disruption. It's nice to have it as a silver bullet in sideboarded games against some matchups, but you're looking pretty good against combo already with the counters and the ability to go get them. In many matchups in game one your discard spells would end up pointed at creatures, and you have plenty of removal for that.
Your deck seems to want discard less than most for a couple of reasons. One is that your games will go longer, and a top-decked discard spell late is really bad. The second is that you already have answers to most things that you would want to have discarded, which for you is Relic of Progenitus and Scavenging Ooze and combo pieces. A couple of Duress in the sideboard is seldom a bad idea, but you probably don't need more than that.
CanadianShinobi says... #1
Now that I have an idea with what I'm working with, I'd like to discuss the various match ups that are most common right now in the Modern metagame. I think a good place to start would be against a typical Birthing Pod deck, as from what I gather that is particularlly strong. Does any one have any insight into this?
August 22, 2013 3:43 a.m.